Anti-Grappling

[SamuraiGuy]

Its very valid in terms of BJJ's not wanting to let go of subs once they have it slapped on. I've always said that a BJJ fighter looks for chokes and subs, and if they lose one they look for another. They hold on hoping to get the desired effect and lose awareness of the fact that the other guy might just be able to pull out his own ace. And Arona isn't the first this has happened to. It has also happened to Carlos Newton as well.

And regardless of your assessment of Rampage's hips, many people are strong enough to pick up and man who's holding on and slam him back down. Maybe that seems like it takes "insane" strength to you, but not everybody is weak and frail.

I never said that the person would let go of the sub, you dont need two hands to hold a triangle together.

Funny that you mention Carlos Newton and then the fact that it takes "insane" strength, as thats exactly the word they use to describe Matt Hughes's strength. Like TriangleChoke said, picking someone up like that is a massive feat of strength, trust me, its a very very hard thing to do. I'm not talking a bout lifting them up a foot or two, over your head is insane. You just dont have the leverage to keep their body up like that, standing up with their legs on your shoulder and lifting them is easy, but their body just hangs down. Very, VERY few people are picking up Arona from that position.

As for being frail I've worked on farms since I was about 10, benched 270 twice to all powerlifting standards when I was 16, and have deadlifted 375 pounds, I'm not exactly frail. And that is in no way E-stats or posturing, theres a "250 pound bench press club" plaque in my school with my name on it.

(if your gonna shit all over my accomplishment or whatever, dont bother because I dont really care).

The fact is, slamming people from gaurd/triangle choke is very difficult.

[DickHardman]

The fact is, slamming people from gaurd/triangle choke is very difficult.

how would uke know, he doesnt know shit about grappling.

[BoarSpear]

Liu he ba fa is pretty big in Taiwan, if I'm not mistaken.
So why internal gong-fu, rather than external?
Why ba gua or xing yi instead of say five-animals?

Why fly jets when you can get there on a prop job just fine? ...

I'm gonna catch hell for that.

Basically it's important to understand that ALL internal arts were built on the movement foundations and lessons learned in the External styles. Take Shaolin temple for instance, it took 18 years to train a Fighting Monk, 12 years external then a final 6 years in Internal styles and weapons. All the arts either start hard and finish soft (ever seen a high level Karate Master? They're pretty loose) or start Soft and finish Hard (the internal arts..anyone who says high level Internal people aren't hard hasn't ever seen one) . The internal arts were NEVER the first or ONLY art of any of the men who made them famous.

You MUST understand external fighting arts BEFORE you can grasp the internal refinements to the movements. It's the experience that was gained using the external arts that allowed those who founded the Internal ones to build on their experience and knowledge and create "modifications" of external truths and turn internal movement paths into forms that trained the body to move like they wanted to under stress. If you take the 12 basic attacks that Shaolin was known to contain and compare them to the 12 attacks the Internal arts were built around its extremely apparent how they evolved.

"White Serpent separates Grass moves through" From Hung's 12 Animal attacks (Shaolin's External Dimmak system)became "Snake hands" (Shaolins internal Dimmak system) 600 years later in the very same temple...

[Tom Yum]

Basically it's important to understand that ALL internal arts were built on the movement foundations and lessons learned in the External styles. Take Shaolin temple for instance, it took 18 years to train a Fighting Monk, 12 years external then a final 6 years in Internal styles and weapons. All the arts either start hard and finish soft (ever seen a high level Karate Master? They're pretty loose) or start Soft and finish Hard (the internal arts..anyone who says high level Internal people aren't hard hasn't ever seen one) . The internal arts were NEVER the first or ONLY art of any of the men who made them famous.

Yes, karate styles start with the rigid, one-strike, one kill type blasts and then as they advance become more loose and flowing.

Its a matter of learning how to be loose, flowing, circular first then move onto the hard, linear stuff?

start Soft and finish Hard - the internal arts

I'm gonna use this as a topic on my next date...wait...I don't get dates

[BoarSpear]

Yes, karate styles start with the rigid, one-strike, one kill type blasts and then as they advance become more loose and flowing.

Its a matter of learning how to be loose, flowing, circular first then move onto the hard, linear stuff?

In a sense, yes. Piqua was used to deflect/avoid attacks and Baji was used to crash in and deliver hammering shoulder or bottom fist strikes and was the favorite art of the Emperors Body guards. Both those arts are taught as one, a circular art for defense and a linear one for offense.

The key is the internal arts are about how you get from point A to point B, the external arts established what point A and point b was. The internal arts then paved the road so to speak. The idea is to teach you to move in a particular way to generate specific Jins or Martial energies which can be used at certain timings in the chaos of combat.

My favorite part of Internal work is most people don't really move in circles, so when I hit them and impart a circular force into their body it isnt used to this type of force. Often times they totally lose their balance others wind up facing the wrong direction with me behind them...Baqua stepping is a bitch.

I'm gonna use this as a topic on my next date...wait...I don't get dates

[Uke]

I never said that the person would let go of the sub, you dont need two hands to hold a triangle together.

Funny that you mention Carlos Newton and then the fact that it takes "insane" strength, as thats exactly the word they use to describe Matt Hughes's strength. Like TriangleChoke said, picking someone up like that is a massive feat of strength, trust me, its a very very hard thing to do. I'm not talking a bout lifting them up a foot or two, over your head is insane. You just dont have the leverage to keep their body up like that, standing up with their legs on your shoulder and lifting them is easy, but their body just hangs down. Very, VERY few people are picking up Arona from that position.

As for being frail I've worked on farms since I was about 10, benched 270 twice to all powerlifting standards when I was 16, and have deadlifted 375 pounds, I'm not exactly frail. And that is in no way E-stats or posturing, theres a "250 pound bench press club" plaque in my school with my name on it.

(if your gonna shit all over my accomplishment or whatever, dont bother because I dont really care).

The fact is, slamming people from gaurd/triangle choke is very difficult.

First off, I'm not shitting all over your accomplishments. Second, on the street you don't have to get the height that Rampage and Hughes got with their lift. Know this. If someone can just get you up waist high and then use a jujitsu face fall on a curb, a fire hydrant or down a flight of stairs its a wrap. And even if they aren't unconscious they won't be able to hold that submission.

[DickHardman]

First off, I'm not shitting all over your accomplishments. Second, on the street you don't have to get the height that Rampage and Hughes got with their lift. Know this. If someone can just get you up waist high and then use a jujitsu face fall on a curb, a fire hydrant or down a flight of stairs its a wrap. And even if they aren't unconscious they won't be able to hold that submission.

by that same token, you arent going to be able to get up even just a little bit a lot of times when you are put in a triangle. sometimes you will feel the choke immediately. sometimes that triangle is going to include an armbar as well and standing will just get your arm popped out of its socket, before you get put to sleep. remember ed herman trying to get out of that one guys triangle not too long ago. his opponent elbowed his skull repeatedly and opened him up while choking him out. ed did not escape.

and even though its been said repeatedly, rampage is not a good example, as he is just way tougher and way stronger than most people. how many knee shots to the face from vanderlei silva could most people withstand? it took silva like 15+ to take jackson down.

another thing that i dont understand is why uke disses mma training, then goes on to mention how in the street you would want to use a maneuver that a mma guy used successfully lol. goes to show that uke is just full of shit and so are his bs arguments.

[Uke]

DickHeadman

by that same token, you arent going to be able to get up even just a little bit a lot of times when you are put in a triangle. sometimes you will feel the choke immediately. sometimes that triangle is going to include an armbar as well and standing will just get your arm popped out of its socket, before you get put to sleep. remember ed herman trying to get out of that one guys triangle not too long ago. his opponent elbowed his skull repeatedly and opened him up while choking him out. ed did not escape.

and even though its been said repeatedly, rampage is not a good example, as he is just way tougher and way stronger than most people. how many knee shots to the face from vanderlei silva could most people withstand? it took silva like 15+ to take jackson down.

another thing that i dont understand is why uke disses mma training, then goes on to mention how in the street you would want to use a maneuver that a mma guy used successfully lol. goes to show that uke is just full of shit and so are his bs arguments.

1)What makes you think that MMA PPV events are the only places that I've seen ground grapplers power-bombed when attempting triangle chokes?

2)Quinton Jackson is a great example. Just because you're weak and have no strength doesn't mean the rest of the population is. Go ahead and start believing that "most people" couldn't lift a guy 4 feet off the ground. It just gives everyone a better idea of how little you've been exposed to. And here's your lesson for the day, DickHeadman:

MMA is not BJJ. I know idiots like you need to lump MMA and BJJ together so that MMA seems like he has some credibility, but they aren't the same thing. And BJJ isn't anything new, just the newaza aspect of jujitsu.

3)I don't "diss" MMA. Idiots like you see what I write as a "diss" because you cannot read very well and walk away with a skewed impression of what I've written. Stating that MMA is not suitable for combatives is not a "diss". Its a distinction between the qualities that each offer. If you see that as a "diss", then you're as stupid as jubaji but not even half as amusing.

4)You can act bitter if you want, but you're just not skilled or knowledgeable enough to debate here. You should stick to one liners and YouTube links.

[BoarSpear]

1)What makes you think that MMA PPV events are the only places that I've seen ground grapplers power-bombed when attempting triangle chokes?

I've seen a couple of geniuses get their face stomped/punted with Harley boots for attempting traingles outside the ring

[DickHardman]

1)What makes you think that MMA PPV events are the only places that I've seen ground grapplers power-bombed when attempting triangle chokes?

2)Quinton Jackson is a great example. Just because you're weak and have no strength doesn't mean the rest of the population is. Go ahead and start believing that "most people" couldn't lift a guy 4 feet off the ground. It just gives everyone a better idea of how little you've been exposed to. And here's your lesson for the day, DickHeadman:

MMA is not BJJ. I know idiots like you need to lump MMA and BJJ together so that MMA seems like he has some credibility, but they aren't the same thing. And BJJ isn't anything new, just the newaza aspect of jujitsu.

3)I don't "diss" MMA. Idiots like you see what I write as a "diss" because you cannot read very well and walk away with a skewed impression of what I've written. Stating that MMA is not suitable for combatives is not a "diss". Its a distinction between the qualities that each offer. If you see that as a "diss", then you're as stupid as jubaji but not even half as amusing.

4)You can act bitter if you want, but you're just not skilled or knowledgeable enough to debate here. You should stick to one liners and YouTube links.

yeah, its still really funny how you talked all that shit about mma and then go on to use a mma technique as your example of what to do in the street lol. i know that blows your lame arguments out of the water and it upsets you that i brought it up, but thats ok cause you never really had anything relevant to say.

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

You should stick to one liners and YouTube links.

Oh no you didnt.

But yes, most people can do this:

[BoarSpear]

Oh no you didnt.

But yes, most people can do this:

I'd say the repercussions of the counter outweigh the benefits of the movement wouldn't you?

[Uke]

Since when has a powerbomb been an MMA move? Did Matt Hughes or Quinton Jackson invent the powerbomb? Anyone? DickHeadman is trying to make everything that happens in NHB seem like MMA because he clearly doesn't know what MMA is.

Idiots like DickHeadman have tried to claim that Crocop, Nogueira and Fedor are MMA fighters when they aren't. They are NHB participants from TMA's that existed way before MMA ever saw the light of day. Idiots like DickHeadman likes to pretend that even a triangle choke is MMA, but its not. Its BJJ. But he's too stupid to realize that.

He'd claim that sword fighting was MMA if he thought it would convince anyone here that he might know what he was talking about. Its not even fun to humiliate you because you're already aware that you're a loser.

[DickHardman]

Since when has a powerbomb been an MMA move? Did Matt Hughes or Quinton Jackson invent the powerbomb? Anyone? DickHeadman is trying to make everything that happens in NHB seem like MMA because he clearly doesn't know what MMA is.

Idiots like DickHeadman have tried to claim that Crocop, Nogueira and Fedor are MMA fighters when they aren't. They are NHB participants from TMA's that existed way before MMA ever saw the light of day. Idiots like DickHeadman likes to pretend that even a triangle choke is MMA, but its not. Its BJJ. But he's too stupid to realize that.

He'd claim that sword fighting was MMA if he thought it would convince anyone here that he might know what he was talking about. Its not even fun to humiliate you because you're already aware that you're a loser.

you are just upset because after talking shit about mma for so many threads, you got caught recommending a technique you saw in a mma match to use on the street lol.

[SamuraiGuy]

First off, I'm not shitting all over your accomplishments. Second, on the street you don't have to get the height that Rampage and Hughes got with their lift. Know this. If someone can just get you up waist high and then use a jujitsu face fall on a curb, a fire hydrant or down a flight of stairs its a wrap. And even if they aren't unconscious they won't be able to hold that submission.

Never said you were shitting on my accomplishments it was a pre-emptive statement that I dont care so I didnt want you to bother...

I realize on the street its different, but I still contend using Rampage as an example is a bit unrealistic, whether or not YOU personally (because you seem to call everyone else weak, frail, etc...) know everyone to be like Rampage, the majority of the population simply arent like him. While they might be able to lift someone up a few feet off the ground, not like rampage would, I realize concrete etc... and head collision could be an issue but yes,

I'm not for triangle chokes on the street, and I realize slams are effective I just didnt think the rampage comparison was valid. Anyway, carry on.