Nice safe world we live in...

[Hardball]

lol.. well maybe she could carry a battle axe or something, no recoil there. it was only a joke in any case.

Yea, Grandma the Ax Murderess!!! LOL

[Albert]

lol.. well maybe she could carry a battle axe or something, no recoil there. it was only a joke in any case.

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

First of all, an old lady could not handle the recoil of a 12ga. Second, please don't condone hatred of Police Officers. It's only a small fraction of dirty cops who give the good cops a bad name.

i don't hate individual cops, i'm sure the majority get into the profession with the best intentions, i hate the institution.

[Hardball]

The video with the old woman being beaten, thats fucked up, and yeah i think id feel the need to step in and hospitalise that man if i saw it happening. That old lady should have been packin a shotgun in that carriage though, haha. And in regards to the police brutality video, most people dont like or even hate cops, with good reason, of course unless you are a cop or are family of one. As much as i hate police, i dont think attacking a whole group of them with there batons drawn is a good idea, just to help someone from getting a few whips with a bat.
If i were 7 feet tall, and 290 pounds of pure muscle, my choice might be different.. but im not nearly that big.

First of all, an old lady could not handle the recoil of a 12ga. Second, please don't condone hatred of Police Officers. It's only a small fraction of dirty cops who give the good cops a bad name.

[Albert]

The video with the old woman being beaten, thats fucked up, and yeah i think id feel the need to step in and hospitalise that man if i saw it happening. That old lady should have been packin a shotgun in that carriage though, haha.

[Uke]

Bad cops doing bad things, give bad cops a bad name...only when the "good" members of the organization get involved in covering up the problem does it become a bad mark against the organization itself.

Some people feel that if the organization is large and has a clear leader then whatever he decides to allow is what all the followers should support, this is obviously wrong, unless you feel the Catholic church was right in raping little boys and the family members were wrong to bring it to light....after all the men in charge knew about it and hid it, hell they moved priest to cover it up....so all the people who spoke out were Bad Catholics because they didnt help the Church hide the rapist, after all the Church is the Big organization with very important goals....if you go against the church you must be the bad guy.

so you see.... there is no such thing as bad cops, just bad citizens for reporting them.

Hahahahahaha

[BoarSpear]

I hope you are joking cause we don't need anymore Dirty Cops!! It gives the good cops a bad name.

Bad cops doing bad things, give bad cops a bad name...only when the "good" members of the organization get involved in covering up the problem does it become a bad mark against the organization itself.

Some people feel that if the organization is large and has a clear leader then whatever he decides to allow is what all the followers should support, this is obviously wrong, unless you feel the Catholic church was right in raping little boys and the family members were wrong to bring it to light....after all the men in charge knew about it and hid it, hell they moved priest to cover it up....so all the people who spoke out were Bad Catholics because they didnt help the Church hide the rapist, after all the Church is the Big organization with very important goals....if you go against the church you must be the bad guy.

so you see.... there is no such thing as bad cops, just bad citizens for reporting them.

[Hardball]

Good chance I'll be a cop within the next 5 years, I'll just police brutality them until they shutup lmao.

I hope you are joking cause we don't need anymore Dirty Cops!! It gives the good cops a bad name.

[SamuraiGuy]

thanks for pointing out these terms to me. i hadn't heard of them before but from a very perfunctory bit of research it looks like interesting reading. but it seems to me that even these theorists do not deny that society is based on this process of delegation. as you said yourself, no society is completely mechanical.

i would agree that we can't totally assign over these qualities to one group, but we can try. we suppress certain aspects of ourselves and as Uke said, pretend that this is the way we always wanted it. can't you hear a kind of mostly hidden shame in the voices of the spectators in the clip i posted when they say things like "this is bullsh*t" as they watch what the police are doing?
again, i thank Uke for filling in a gap in my argument when he said that it is the initiative and use of force that have been delegated to police rather than the actual virtues i first mentionned. we still have those virtues but many have lost the tools to implement and express them, so those virtues fester as a kind of subconscious guilty knowledge that we are not as strong as we ought to be.

and by the way, don't let any cultural anthropologists catch you calling a society "more advanced" than any other or you'll get an earful!

Good chance I'll be a cop within the next 5 years, I'll just police brutality them until they shutup lmao.

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

What your talking about here is simply Organic and Mechanical solidarity, and MANY social theorists have argued and debated, and researched these phenomenons since socrates.

Mechanical Solidarity is when you have a low division of labour, which would be the, I build my own house, raise my own cows, make my own clothes, type of society.

Organic Solidarity, which is closer to the society we live in today, has a high degree of specialization in labour. Notice how we dont have "handymen" anymore, but rather a specific plumber, a specific carpenter, a specific cabinet maker... etc.... Or just look at the medical field, countless specializations there.

The point is societies are never mechanical or organic, rather they constantly shift towards one end of the spectrum, generally as societies become more advanced, it shifts towards the organic side of things.


Where this comes into play is in what happens when a society becomes too organic, to borrow a word from the work of Durkheim (one of those guys after socrates), and a principle later adapted by Merton, when this happens the state goes into a state of "anomie" or it becomes Anomic and cant function.

Our society is loosely based on contracts, just look at currency, are several pieces of paper really worth a car? They are because we agree they are, but when something happens, natural disaster, war, famine, etc... or when a society leans too much towards the organic side, society becomes Anomic, no one feels they have to honor these contracts, and society is thrown into chaos.

So basically, I dont agree with your view that society is giving cops a specialization of human quality over "bravery and strength" there is no way a society can ever completely give something like this up, because then they become organic, and you cant ever be completely organic without everything going to shit.



(as an aside I didnt plan on writing a fricking thesis paper, thats kinda just how it came out)

thanks for pointing out these terms to me. i hadn't heard of them before but from a very perfunctory bit of research it looks like interesting reading. but it seems to me that even these theorists do not deny that society is based on this process of delegation. as you said yourself, no society is completely mechanical.

i would agree that we can't totally assign over these qualities to one group, but we can try. we suppress certain aspects of ourselves and as Uke said, pretend that this is the way we always wanted it. can't you hear a kind of mostly hidden shame in the voices of the spectators in the clip i posted when they say things like "this is bullsh*t" as they watch what the police are doing?
again, i thank Uke for filling in a gap in my argument when he said that it is the initiative and use of force that have been delegated to police rather than the actual virtues i first mentionned. we still have those virtues but many have lost the tools to implement and express them, so those virtues fester as a kind of subconscious guilty knowledge that we are not as strong as we ought to be.

and by the way, don't let any cultural anthropologists catch you calling a society "more advanced" than any other or you'll get an earful!

[BoarSpear]

Thanks, now what's the skinny on the mauser?

I think the mauser was simply the common rifle he used to make the point...

[Hardball]

Nice pick up Hardball.

I'll add this piece from another source...







" A friend of mine owns an instructive piece of history. It is a small, crude pistol, made out of sheet-metal stampings by the U.S. during World War II. While it fits in the palm of your hand and is a slowly-operated, single-shot arm, it's powerful .45 caliber projectile will kill a man with brutal efficiency. With a short, smooth-bore barrel it can reliably kill only at point blank ranges, so its use requires the will (brave or foolhardy) to get in close before firing. It is less a soldier's weapon than an assassin's tool. The U.S. manufactured them by the millions during the war, not for our own forces but rather to be air-dropped behind German lines to resistance units in occupied Europe. Crude and slow (the fired case had to be knocked out of the breech by means of a little wooden dowel, a fresh round procured from the storage area in the grip and then manually reloaded and cocked) and so wildly inaccurate it couldn't hit the broad side of a French barn at 50 meters, to the Resistance man or woman who had no firearm it still looked pretty darn good.

The theory and practice of it was this: First, you approach a German sentry with your little pistol hidden in your coat pocket and, with Academy-award sincerity, ask him for a light for your cigarette (or the time the train leaves for Paris, or if he wants to buy some non-army-issue food or a half- hour with your "sister"). When he smiles and casts a nervous glance down the street to see where his Sergeant is, you blow his brains out with your first and only shot, then take his rifle and ammunition. Your next few minutes are occupied with "getting out of Dodge," for such critters generally go around in packs. After that (assuming you evade your late benefactor's friends) you keep the rifle and hand your little pistol to a fellow Resistance fighter so he can go get his own rifle.

Or maybe you then use your rifle to get a submachine gun from the Sergeant when he comes running. Perhaps you get very lucky and pickup a light machine gun, two boxes of ammunition and a haversack of hand grenades. With two of the grenades and the expenditure of a half-a-box of ammunition at a hasty roadblock the next night, you and your friends get a truck full of arms and ammunition. (Some of the cargo is sticky with "Boche" blood, but you don't mind terribly.)

Pretty soon you've got the best armed little maquis unit in your part of France, all from that cheap little pistol and the guts to use it. (One wonders if the current political elite's opposition to so-called "Saturday Night Specials" doesn't come from some adopted racial memory of previous failed tyrants. Even cheap little pistols are a threat to oppressive regimes.)

They called the pistol the "Liberator." Not a bad name, all in all."

Nice story and even nicer message embedded!!!

[Hardball]

Thanks, now what's the skinny on the mauser?

[BoarSpear]

Nice pick up Hardball.

I'll add this piece from another source...







" A friend of mine owns an instructive piece of history. It is a small, crude pistol, made out of sheet-metal stampings by the U.S. during World War II. While it fits in the palm of your hand and is a slowly-operated, single-shot arm, it's powerful .45 caliber projectile will kill a man with brutal efficiency. With a short, smooth-bore barrel it can reliably kill only at point blank ranges, so its use requires the will (brave or foolhardy) to get in close before firing. It is less a soldier's weapon than an assassin's tool. The U.S. manufactured them by the millions during the war, not for our own forces but rather to be air-dropped behind German lines to resistance units in occupied Europe. Crude and slow (the fired case had to be knocked out of the breech by means of a little wooden dowel, a fresh round procured from the storage area in the grip and then manually reloaded and cocked) and so wildly inaccurate it couldn't hit the broad side of a French barn at 50 meters, to the Resistance man or woman who had no firearm it still looked pretty darn good.

The theory and practice of it was this: First, you approach a German sentry with your little pistol hidden in your coat pocket and, with Academy-award sincerity, ask him for a light for your cigarette (or the time the train leaves for Paris, or if he wants to buy some non-army-issue food or a half- hour with your "sister"). When he smiles and casts a nervous glance down the street to see where his Sergeant is, you blow his brains out with your first and only shot, then take his rifle and ammunition. Your next few minutes are occupied with "getting out of Dodge," for such critters generally go around in packs. After that (assuming you evade your late benefactor's friends) you keep the rifle and hand your little pistol to a fellow Resistance fighter so he can go get his own rifle.

Or maybe you then use your rifle to get a submachine gun from the Sergeant when he comes running. Perhaps you get very lucky and pickup a light machine gun, two boxes of ammunition and a haversack of hand grenades. With two of the grenades and the expenditure of a half-a-box of ammunition at a hasty roadblock the next night, you and your friends get a truck full of arms and ammunition. (Some of the cargo is sticky with "Boche" blood, but you don't mind terribly.)

Pretty soon you've got the best armed little maquis unit in your part of France, all from that cheap little pistol and the guts to use it. (One wonders if the current political elite's opposition to so-called "Saturday Night Specials" doesn't come from some adopted racial memory of previous failed tyrants. Even cheap little pistols are a threat to oppressive regimes.)

They called the pistol the "Liberator." Not a bad name, all in all."

[Hardball]

I HAVE NOW



The FP-45 Liberator was a pistol manufactured for the United States military during World War II.

The pistol was designed for the United States Army in 1942 by the Inland Guide Lamp Manufacturing Division of the General Motors Corporation in Dayton, Ohio. Interestingly, the army designated the weapon the Flare Projector Caliber .45 hence the designation FP-45. This was done to disguise the fact that a pistol was being mass produced. The original engineering drawings label the barrel as "tube", the trigger as "yoke", the firing pin as "control rod", and the trigger guard as "spanner". The Guide Lamp Division plant in Anderson, Indiana assembled a million of these weapons. The Liberator project took about 6 months from concept to end of production with about 11 weeks of actual manufacturing time, done by 300 workers.

The weapon was a crude, single shot pistol designed to be cheaply and quickly mass produced. The Liberator had just 23 parts. The weapon largely used stamped and turned steel parts that were cheap and easy to manufacture. The weapon fired a .45 caliber pistol cartridge from an unrifled barrel. Due to the unrifled barrel, maximum effective range was only about 25 feet (less than 8 meters). In reality, the actual effective range was closer to about 10 feet (3 meters). After that, the oblong .45 ACP bullet (designed for a rifled barrel) would begin to tumble out of control ("keyholing").

The Liberator was shipped in a cardboard box with 10 rounds of .45 ACP ammunition, a wooden dowel to remove the empty shell casing, and an instruction sheet showing how to load and fire the weapon. Excess rounds of ammunition could be stored in the pistol grip.

After production, the Army turned the Liberators over to the OSS. A crude and clumsy weapon, the Liberator was never intended for front line service. It was originally intended as an insurgency weapon to be mass dropped behind enemy lines to resistance fighters in occupied territory. The resistance fighters were to recover the weapons, sneak up on an Axis occupier, either kill him or knock him out and retrieve his weapon(s). Many resistance fighters called the FP-45 "a great weapon to get another one with".

The weapon was valued as much for its psychological warfare effect as its actual field performance. It was believed that if vast quantities of these weapons could be delivered into Axis occupied territory, it would have a devastating effect on the morale of occupying troops. The plan was to drop the weapon in such great quantities that occupying forces could never capture or recover all the weapons. It was hoped that the thought of thousands of these unrecovered weapons potentially in the hands of the citizens of occupied countries would have a deleterious effect on enemy morale.

In reality, the OSS never saw the practicality in mass dropping the Liberator over occupied Europe, and only a handful were ever distributed. Only the Chinese and resistance forces in the Philippines received the Liberator in any significant quantity. The Liberator was never issued to American or Allied troops and there is no known instance of the weapon ever actually being used in combat.

The original delivered cost for the FP-45 was $2.10/unit ($26 in 2005). A Liberator in good condition today can fetch approximately $2500, with the original box bringing an additional $1500, with an original extremely rare paper instruction sheet the value could exceed $4500 to a collector of World War II rare militaria.

An interesting fact about the Liberator is that the factories could produce one faster than the weapon could be loaded and fired. Building the pistol took about six or seven seconds whilst loading took about 10 seconds.


[edit] In Popular Culture
The FP-45 Liberator's design was featured in the 2004 PlayStation 2 game Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater as a single-shot tranquilizer gun with a built-in suppressor and laser sight, dubbed the "EZ Gun". It was designed by the character Sigint and imitates the design of the Liberator because it "looks cool". However, the function of the pistol actually resembles that of the Russian [1] or [2] silent pistols, which used a special silent cartridge and had an integrated laser sight.