Training for the Street

[jubaji]

that wasnt him trying to be civil, it was him desperately trying to start some actual threads in fear of getting banned .

Oh yeah, I'm terrified...

[Uke]

WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU SAW SOMEONE "PULL GAURD" IN AN MMA MATCH!

My point wasnt that you say BJJ guys take the fight to the ground, or that they would wnat to grapple instead of strike or anything about that,

Its that you need to stop assuming BJJ people instantly pull gaurd, honestly read what im writing here, dont write a fucking story about something else, and about how you dont usually read what I write, grow up, in general BJJ PEOPLE DONT PULL GAURD IN STREET FIGHTS, they dont pull gaurd in mma fights.

I'm not talking about whether they grapple or take it to the ground, im talking PULLING GAURD, a simple act. They dont do it, get it out of your head, and stop spewing it as something they do.

This is coming from someone whos trained Judo, Boxing, and RBSD systems as well as BJJ, its just fucking stupid.

Edit; upon re-reading this I just think that your an uneducated idiot whos spouting his mouth off without knowing what each term implies..

Pulling gaurd is when you go from standing and jump and wrap your legs around the person, or drag them down into your gaurd.

Re-gaining gaurd or something when your already on the ground IS NOT pulling gaurd, and in general its a decent tactic when someone is smashing you. I know if you could magically stand up from mount that would be great, but most of the time you cant, so you regain some form of gaurd and stand up from there.

I honestly hope thats the case and you dont believe that BJJ guys Pull Gaurd (using your newfound actual definition).

First off, I didn't start off by being nasty or unreasonable with you, SamuraiGuy. If you want to act like an asshole, I'll treat you like one.

In ANY match where there is a BJJ player, as soon as he gets with something cleanly he falls back into the guard position. Whether he pulls his opponent into his guard or just lays there hoping for his opponent to come into his guard doesn't matter. The point was that a BJJ fighter is going to get into the position he is most comfortable in once he's overwhelmed or tagged cleanly. Pay attention.

Second, you're a 19 year old kid who has about a year and a half training in BJJ and even less than that in Krav Maga, so don't come here talking like you know shit because you don't. And with you only practicing the rudimentary shit that you do, you are DEFINITELY in no position to ever call me or anyone for that matter uneducated.

[Uke]

that wasnt him trying to be civil, it was him desperately trying to start some actual threads in fear of getting banned after people started to flat out beg him to stop trolling our threads and forums. sadly though, after 6000+ posts of one liners and insults, two or three legit posts really isnt going to change people's perspective of you.

he is still in the same category as matt blake and nutter, even if he himself really wasnt pretending to be those people on a different screen name.

You're not the first person to suggest that, and you're probably right.

[Uke]

This is quite true. The early UFC's showed that when the pressure's on the combatants "lost" their training in their styles and reverted to haymakers and wild brawling.....basically he who made contact first usually won. It does tell you something. Perhaps it tells you that despite all the theoretically practical techniques that you can learn in MA's, if you don't possess timing you don't possess anything.

Very well said!

When you look at most of the old masters, they were all small men. What was it that made them so formidable? They struck first. They struck fast. And they struck with everything they had.

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

The only real difference between the early UFC's and today's Pride and UFC is that:

1)People are more versed in dealing with the guard.

and

2)They are professional athletes who are in professional athlete shape to give us bouts that won't look as sloppy and the fighters won't simply be hugging 5 minutes into the matches.

These are the only differences? I must disagree, but come on, surely you don't really think that Uke?

[jubaji]

If you want to act like an asshole, I'll treat you like one.

In ANY match where there is a BJJ player, as soon as he gets with something cleanly he falls back into the guard position. Whether he pulls his opponent into his guard or just lays there hoping for his opponent to come into his guard doesn't matter.

Second, you're a 19 year old kid who has about a year and a half training in BJJ and even less than that in Krav Maga, so don't come here talking like you know shit because you don't.

Yep, same old shit from the same old pUke...

[jubaji]

you are DEFINITELY in no position to ever call me or anyone for that matter uneducated.

I'm calling you that.

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

Oyama didn't train to compete in sports, Judo Jibboo. He trained to end any confrontation. Period. Remember, he fought in 270 no rule matches in his career and ended most of them fast with one punch. And that's not counting with the Gracie math either. His level of conditioning, strength and ability crossed the line of fanaticism early on in his life. You won't see training like his today.

Uke, look at my words that you quoted yourself in that response, i know Oyama didn't train for sports. I have not used Oyama as an example in support of my argument because he does not have much particular bearing on the discussion. I don't know how he got to be such a central element of the discussion.

On the other hand, he did start the sport competitions in Kyokushin, which originally included punches and elbows to the head which he removed to be able to safely continue fighting at the same high level of intensity, so maybe Oyama did see the value in compromising certain elements in exchange for vigorous sporting competition.

[Uke]

Well I could go on.

The weight limits negate any real evidence of how well a style prepares a fighter because he is fighting a man at or close to his own weight and height.

The introduction of rounds eliminated the continuity of the bouts.

The bouts are far, far more focused on ground wrestling.

More rules have been introduced such as no kicking a man in the head when he's down, no strikes to the groin, etc. (Look at how Gracie vs Shamrock ended).

The fighters are younger and stronger.

The goal of putting style vs style has changed.

The atmosphere has dramatically changed. Fighters are relaxed now because they feel no urgency to win. It used to be that when Big John yelled" Let's get it on", the fighters wanted to immediately get in and get out. Fights weren't lasting 10 minutes(excluding Gracie). Guy came in with their best foot forward and gave their all. You rarely see that now. They pace themselves as if it were a boxing match until it goes to the ground or someone gets rocked.

Some fighters had begun getting in incredible shape very fast. I don't know how thorough these events test for steroids or other enhancers, but they've already caught Josh Barnett once. There are a few out there that fit the criteria still.

But hey, it is what it is. What is it that you disagree about, Judo Jibboo?

[Uke]

I'm calling you that.

You also call yourself a man but we know you use the term loosely, pee wee.

[Uke]

Uke, look at my words that you quoted yourself in that response, i know Oyama didn't train for sports. I have not used Oyama as an example in support of my argument because he does not have much particular bearing on the discussion. I don't know how he got to be such a central element of the discussion.

On the other hand, he did start the sport competitions in Kyokushin, which originally included punches and elbows to the head which he removed to be able to safely continue fighting at the same high level of intensity, so maybe Oyama did see the value in compromising certain elements in exchange for vigorous sporting competition.

I'm sure he did! There is value in sport competition. There is high level of athleticism and skill involved in sport competitions. Once of my cousin's students is the world karate champion and has been ranked #1 for years, but he can fight too.

Maybe I'm missing your point. Be so kind as to help me understand what it is that you're trying to convey.

[jubaji]

too much bliss!

Well I could go on.

The weight limits negate any real evidence of how well a style prepares a fighter

Wrong. (again)

[jubaji]

Fighters are relaxed now because they feel no urgency to win.

Wrong, and stupid.

[jubaji]

Guy came in with their best foot forward and gave their all. You rarely see that now.

Unbelievably stupid, even for you.

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

Well I could go on.

The weight limits negate any real evidence of how well a style prepares a fighter because he is fighting a man at or close to his own weight and height.

The introduction of rounds eliminated the continuity of the bouts.

The bouts are far, far more focused on ground wrestling.

More rules have been introduced such as no kicking a man in the head when he's down, no strikes to the groin, etc. (Look at how Gracie vs Shamrock ended).

The fighters are younger and stronger.

The goal of putting style vs style has changed.

The atmosphere has dramatically changed. Fighters are relaxed now because they feel no urgency to win. It used to be that when Big John yelled" Let's get it on", the fighters wanted to immediately get in and get out. Fights weren't lasting 10 minutes(excluding Gracie). Guy came in with their best foot forward and gave their all. You rarely see that now. They pace themselves as if it were a boxing match until it goes to the ground or someone gets rocked.

Some fighters had begun getting in incredible shape very fast. I don't know how thorough these events test for steroids or other enhancers, but they've already caught Josh Barnett once. There are a few out there that fit the criteria still.

But hey, it is what it is. What is it that you disagree about, Judo Jibboo?

Yes, there are plenty of changes since the beginning that were detrimental as far as realism goes, mostly due in one way or another to making it more "palatable" in general. I have to say that the weight class thing could be argued either way though, putting two guys in a ring with all other things being relatively equal, that highlights the style's attributes. If a 300 pound bjjer fell on top of a boxer and smothered him, that wouldn't really discredit boxing as a preparation for confrontation.

So my disagreement would be that some possitive things have come out of it too ! As the Gracies are so fond of chanting, it proved that your game is not complete if you have not prepared in one way or another for a grappler. As a result fighters have become more aware of threats from outside their own styles. I find that particularly important because i see it as one of the major pitfalls of the martial arts that typically you only get to fight people who have been trained to react the same way you have.

Fighters cross-train and have a much bigger box of tools at their disposal during a fight.

Yeesh, i dunno, the differences seem so significant i guess i wasn't prepared to answer this question In general the fighters are smarter, more well rounded, and more dynamic, beyond that i'll have to get back to you.