Anything Can Be Used As A Weapon

[TTEscrima]

Seems to me if there is a mouse pad and a mouse there ought to be some cables to strangle with or a monitor to bash them upside the head.

For those of you who realize that relying on empty handed self defense is more about ego than survival here's a link to the Army field manual on survival, chapter 12 covers field expedient weapons. I've never met anyone who has been in a life and death struggle who wouldn't prefer a weapon to their empty hands. People bent on doing real harm rarely respond to pain, sometimes shooting them or stabbing them doesn't stop them right away, good luck beating them up before they kill you. People sometimes correlate macho squabbles and bouncing experience with SD and thus have a false idea of what an actual assault can entail.

U.S. Army Survival Manual FM 21-76 - EQUIPPED TO SURVIVE (tm)

[Guest]

Seems to me if there is a mouse pad and a mouse there ought to be some cables to strangle with or a monitor to bash them upside the head.

For those of you who realize that relying on empty handed self defense is more about ego than survival here's a link to the Army field manual on survival, chapter 12 covers field expedient weapons. I've never met anyone who has been in a life and death struggle who wouldn't prefer a weapon to their empty hands. People bent on doing real harm rarely respond to pain, sometimes shooting them or stabbing them doesn't stop them right away, good luck beating them up before they kill you. People sometimes correlate macho squabbles and bouncing experience with SD and thus have a false idea of what an actual assault can entail.

U.S. Army Survival Manual FM 21-76 - EQUIPPED TO SURVIVE (tm)

...and by the same token, some people think that everyone should see the world through the eyes of a retired soldier. That has nothing to do with my life, its not my world, so I don't need the "life and death" dramatics.

There is nothing false about my experience of assaults, I just don't ram it down people's throats to try and force my point of view. I have faced a range of situations from minor confrontations to serious incidents, twice involving an edged weapon, and once involving a handgun. I'm still here, and I have never had to use a weapon of any description. I say again, its not that I wouldn't if my life was really on the line, but I am pleased to say I have never felt that threatened. I just don't feel the need to over dramatise my experiences.

If you really put the time into your training, and know how to handle yourself, the vast majority of self defence situations are really no big deal. If you want to call that ego then fine, I'm not going to apologise for being a competent martial artist, I thought thats what we were all trying to achieve.

[TTEscrima]

Now I'm confused,I mean amused, I've read multiple posts from Mike Brewer where he resorted to weapons or planned to use them FIRST, long before any actual violence occurred and in direct violation of the laws and policy of the places he was employed. On top of all that, apparently Mike Brewer considers his poisoning customers on multiple occasions while he bar tended to be the proper mindset! Certainly his hands and feet should have been sufficient (according to the posts in this thread) and yet here he is making fun of people who train to survive actual assaults. Yet Mike Brewer overreacted to situations where no violence had occurred these "incidents" were in bars or the mall, both are obviously places where he had back up and there was no call for his overreaction.

I have faced a range of situations from minor confrontations to serious incidents, twice involving an edged weapon, and once involving a handgun. I'm still here, and I have never had to use a weapon of any description. I say again, its not that I wouldn't if my life was really on the line, but I am pleased to say I have never felt that threatened.

You faced two edged weapon assaults and a handgun assault while you were empty handed but you've never felt threatened eh? Okay, Superman. I bet you suplexed your way right out of those pesky knife attacks and poisoned the guy with the gun, or perhaps you melted the gun with your super heated breath.


Life and death isn't hyperbole unless you're using it to describe a shift of work in the bar or the mall. Many years ago the Secret service informed the President than in the event of an attacker willing to die in order to bite his nose off, his nose would be bitten off no matter how much security they placed around him. I've seen you all recognize that athletes involved in a sporting event will fight through broken hands or blown out joints to win a match for money or a title but you somehow seem to believe that someone bent on killing you no matter what and who according to statistics will be armed can just be beaten up. I had countless weapons pulled on me over the years by people just trying to avoid being detained, they didn't really want to hurt me they just wanted to escape, sure it was frightening but in no way did it reflect the intensity of the few times where I was faced with an enraged subject bent on killing me who didn't give two shits if they survived the day or not. I recently read where Michael Wright thought most of the street posts here were peoples BS stories, from reading the posts and peoples comprehension of actual violent assaults I tend to agree. I'm sure you'll all rush back saying "you were just kidding", or "couldn't be arsed", or some other excuses or attacks on how we train but your own posts have shown your hypocrisy already so there won't be a need for me to post further.

[jubaji]

...and by the same token, some people think that everyone should see the world through the eyes of a retired soldier. That has nothing to do with my life, its not my world, so I don't need the "life and death" dramatics.

There is nothing false about my experience of assaults, I just don't ram it down people's throats to try and force my point of view. I have faced a range of situations from minor confrontations to serious incidents, twice involving an edged weapon, and once involving a handgun. I'm still here, and I have never had to use a weapon of any description. I say again, its not that I wouldn't if my life was really on the line, but I am pleased to say I have never felt that threatened. I just don't feel the need to over dramatise my experiences.

If you really put the time into your training, and know how to handle yourself, the vast majority of self defence situations are really no big deal. If you want to call that ego then fine, I'm not going to apologise for being a competent martial artist, I thought thats what we were all trying to achieve.

Well said, sir! For some people, if they don't find it written in their 'Official Book of All That Must Be' it can't be accepted no matter what the lived experiences of however many others might suggest. It's a way of granting themselves a false sense of security and self importance.

[Guest]

You faced two edged weapon assaults and a handgun assault while you were empty handed but you've never felt threatened eh? Okay, Superman. I bet you suplexed your way right out of those pesky knife attacks and poisoned the guy with the gun, or perhaps you melted the gun with your super heated breath.

You had to go back the next day and edit your post to make it more personal eh? You're a real warrior TT.

On each of those three occassions no, I never felt my life was on the line, and I was right - because I'm sat typing this. On all three occassions, and numerous others, what gave me the advantage is I didn't panic, I just kept my head and did what I needed to do. One of the reasons I have been able to do that is because I have never built fights up to be the drama, terror or nightmare life and death shit you keep wanting to scaremonger people with.

Its pretty simple. The people with the knives didn't know what they were doing, and I did. You don't spend 15 years training with the likes of Guro Inosanto and Paul Vunak and not get pretty competent at taking knives from people. The person with the gun wanted me to believe it was real and it was loaded, but I called his bluff, and the situation was defused. No big thing.

You think that makes me out to be some kind of Superman? Its nothing. There are thousands of trained professionals all over the world who overcome far more threat than this each day, my experiences are absolutely nothing compared to some of my Instructors, Colleagues, and Students. But you aren't interested in competance or success, you just want to post about people losing, people dying, and people being full of shit. You clearly think I am the latter, through your constant little digs at me, but I couldn't give a shit what you think. You're a bitter old man sat behind a keyboard with no more war to fight, so if you want to take that out on me then go right ahead. You can even use your mouse mat.

[jubaji]

*sniff*sniff ~

What's that smell? Ah, some actual sense in this thread! What a refreshing scent!

[sikal]

Why do people like zombie movies? Why do people buy those Rambo replica knives? Why do people imitate Bruce Lee? Why did they kill Joe Camel?

Who knows.

Most things people do are unnecessary and based out of fiction. We all have unrealistic ideas about things...

Why does our little subset gravitate towards martial arts, combatives, and combat sports? I mean...truthfully, you're right...these things are fairly superfilous and unnecessary to probably 98% percent of the population...and the whole survivalist mentality that tends to go along with it, especially the military and ex-military guys...is probably deletorious to daily life...and fosters a mentality that probably increases our chances of getting into those unlikely situations, but yet we do it.

In my heart I know that I will probably never need to know these things...I know that alot of the shit is packaged for sale to a naive consumer base...and the stuff that is legit PROBABLY has no legitamite function what-so-ever to the common man. But I love it. I have a passion for this stuff.

My girlfriend has a thing for penguins...my friends have a thing for heroin...
the stuff is like that for me. I crave it, I think about it often, and I often purchase unnecessary shit for and about it. Some people collect stamps or fabrige eggs... ce cera cera.

Something a good friend of mine said once, "If I'm training to become a good fighter and I go my whole life without ever getting into a fight - which would actually be pretty cool - then I have, essentially, wasted thousands of hours of my time. If, on the other hand, I train to have fun and make friends and learning to fight is a total side benefit then there's not a second wasted even if I never get into a fight."


I train because I enjoy it and I enjoy the camaraderie and hanging with the friends I've made through it. I can attribute all the good stuff in my life to my MA training - either directly or indirectly. I've gained a lot of benefit from my MA experience. As a teacher I hope to help others find similar benefits in their own lives. That's it.

Why do I consider things like, "How would I use a mouse pad or kleenex as a weapon?" I consider them because they're fun. The exercises are mostly intellectual and academic but they do help me to think outside of the "classical mess."

Take flexible weapons, for instance. I get most of my flexible weapons training from the Cipecut section of Mande Muda Pencak Silat. Traditionally we trained this material with a sarong or, occasionally, with an ikat (big bandana). I've since taken that training and applied the principles to using things like jackets, purses, bags, etc - even when I or my opponent is still wearing them. As I tell people when I'm teaching the material I'm not going to go hunting for a handful of my opponent's clothing or grab hold of my jacket in order to use it. If, however, my hand happens to be in my pocket when I get attacked then I also won't waste time trying to get my hand out of the pocket - I'll just use the jacket as I've trained to do. It's rarely about "looking" for the weapon. It's about what's using the things already in my hands. Why throw away a perfectly good weapon in preference to my hands?

You guys who keep nay saying this thread: if you got attacked while holding, for instance, a dinner plate (maybe you're at your favorite Chinese buffet or something) would you drop the plate and start hitting the guy or would you use the plate that's in your hands first?

I assume you wouldn't drop the plate. You might toss it in the guy's face or something then go to your empty hands but I would bet you would use the plate in some fashion before resorting to your empty hands.

Not to say you haven't made valid points - it can be taken too far. For me it's just something I enjoy training/teaching because (a) I think it's fun and (b) I think it helps people keep their eyes/minds open to possibilities.

Mike

[ltindiandaeng]

This was very interesting discussion and I just have two cents worth which I will add,but there was a lotm of information here so this is just a short comment on some things that were said.Just my opinion.Not to argue with anyone or put down anyone.

I think people can be passionate about their opinions and still respect those people and opinions who are different.

I think sometimes people can have opposite views,and still both viewsw contain some truth.

All confrontations involving violence,whether in war or a drunken bar brawl,can end in death or serious injury.So violence,in my opinion and experience,is never something to be taken lightly.

One last thing.I worked in NY state prison for 25 years and learned knife fighting from my Indian family at a young age.I was in numerous knife fights,and always I was without a knife.I am still alive but I have never taken a knife from someone without getting cut.Now I teach people stick and knife fighting and I cannot teach someone how to face a knife without getting cut.My point is,if someone can do this,I would liketo learn from them because they are much more skilled than I.

[Bullseye]

I originally wrote this in reply to Micheal Wright's reply to me on the Vunak seminar thread (but I accidentally deleted it ), but I think it is relevant to the discussion here.

I really feel that alot of RBSD instructors ,not to mention the media, are guilty of overstating the case when it comes to danger on "the streets." Of course, as has already been stated, violence exists, and it does happen.

However, I must concur with Micheal, that a lot of guys seems to want to continously harp on about people dying, losing, getting cut and so on. And how every fight is a fight to the death. I feel that this is scare mongering plain and simple. Even if unintentionally in some cases.

From my personal experience, I can say that overly focusing on "the street" only leads to a terrible increase in fear and paranoia. This has a subsequent effect on your outlook on life in general, and the world becomes a more hostile and frightening place. I see no point in obssessing about crime, "the streets" or what have you. It may happen, or it may not, but worrying about it won't change the outcome anyway. If it happens, the best attitude is , I'll deal with it. I also like what Micheal says about most self defence situations being "no big deal" if you are competent. Very few people actually come out and say this, but I feel it is a very important point to make, and an excellent counterbalance to the "everyone on the streets is an unstoppable fighting machine who won't feel pain so you have to dedicate your whole life toward beating him" crowd.

In fact, overly obssessing about being attacked will probably cause you/me/whoever to be far more liklely to freeze up when sh*t meets fan. I find the attitude espoused here by the two Mikes to be empowering and refreshing .

Much (not all) trouble is avoidable if one uses maturity and a modicum of common sense. I don't mean adhering to some sort of "tactical" lifestyle here. Many normal, ordinary people avoid fights everyday simply by going about their business, and behaving in a normal decent fashion. Most people are never going to have a streetfight, and those that do often survive without life threatening injuries. Of course people do die, but, let's face it, we aren't living in a Mad maxlike wasteland, society in general is supportive and safe. Despite what some would have us believe.

[Guest]

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Bullseye again"

I've only been away one day, and what a great set of contributons to this thread - from all sides of the table.

This weekend, we have had the honour and pleasure of Guro Inosanto teaching his annual seminar in London. Today, Guro Inosanto was teaching Knife, which is not something he especially likes doing. After a while he stopped and addressed the seminar with a speech that made me think of this thread:

Guro said that he teaches the knife (outside of the military) so people can understand the art, the history, and the relation to empty hand. One of the things he doesn't like about certain martial arts circles is that people use weaponry to hide their insecurities and it can become a dark and paranoid study. Then he said something that just sums up everything I guess I would like to say, but not as well as he does:

"Be a good martial artist, be a good person, and lead a good life - what do you need a knife for?"

Thats from the man I consider to be the greatest living martial artist. Thats good enough for me.

Oh and Mike, he said hello.

[Bullseye]

By the way, thanks for the positive rep point. Just understood what it was about half an hour ago.

[Tant01]

You guys and your reputation... ...phui.

Much can be said for associations. Lets face it, we're not all middle class. Some of us were thugs or drug addicts of one kind or another. I'm sure we've all had that one unsavory "friend"?

You know the guy? Paraniod all the time. Packing the little .25 and always has a bag of Meth on hand?

Maybe it was an ex wife or her connections in (pick a town or city) A-Hem, Portland, Oregon?

Street punks or other low life dysfunctional scum of the earth? The kind that would shank almost anyone for a dime bag? They stole your stuff when you weren't looking and told you straight out they would snuff you as soon as look at you? He was sure I had a fat wad in my wallet so that alone would be reason to do the deed and then go score another rock to lose a bit of sleep cause it wouldn't bother him a bit to shed some blood if he got high out of it...

Don't count your blessings and think it will never happen. It might be a friendly game of pool one moment and raging steroid freak nutting up on you the next moment.

I'm just saying... Don't get too confident with yourselves. There is always someone thinking you might be his next victim. And, he might be right...

I used to pick the baddest dude in the place just to see if he would rumble...

Sometimes they did. No reason at all outside my own ego and insecurities.

Lets fight!!!

I almost miss the rush... Even if I got my ass kicked it would heal, right?


LOL

[Guest]

I'm just saying... Don't get too confident with yourselves. There is always someone thinking you might be his next victim. And, he might be right...

and what I'm saying is, be confident in yourself, otherwise....he is right.

I don't care how badass he thinks he is, or what meth he is on, or who his connections are. He hasn't trained every day for nearly two decades to protect what he loves, so if he wants to bring it on at the pool table then bring it on. You have to believe in what you have, and what you are.

"Bad guy" is a name that applies to both people in any violent confrontation. I'd much rather be the trained, skilled, athletic bad guy than the weasly, crack addict, pimp bad guy. Its another martial arts stereotype of the "lethal danger" that lurks on our street. When did we stop thinking that we, as trained martial artists, are the lethal danger? When did it all become so defeatist?

If you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.

[Tant01]

and what I'm saying is, be confident in yourself, otherwise....he is right.

I don't care how badass he thinks he is, or what meth he is on, or who his connections are. He hasn't trained every day for nearly two decades to protect what he loves, so if he wants to bring it on at the pool table then bring it on. You have to believe in what you have, and what you are.

"Bad guy" is a name that applies to both people in any violent confrontation. I'd much rather be the trained, skilled, athletic bad guy than the weasly, crack addict, pimp bad guy. Its another martial arts stereotype of the "lethal danger" that lurks on our street. When did we stop thinking that we, as trained martial artists, are the lethal danger? When did it all become so defeatist?

If you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.

Yeah... when I say "confident" I mean like the TKD master who tried to chase down carjackers... Maybe "don't be stupid" is a better choice of words?

Stay safe,

Tant01

[ltindiandaeng]

The way you look at life depends on your life,I think.I am half-white,half-Indian and grew up in New Yorlk surrounded by blacks and I got into martial arts for a comon reason:I was getting beat up alot.I was only white guy in high school on basketball,baseball and track team.And then to be honest,I am not proud but I was in a gang so I fought alot.Then after army I worked 25 years in prison,so my view of the world is paranoid,I admit.Now I am in mainly peaceful Thailand(not always I admit) and mainly teaching and martial arts for me is something I do for enjoyment and fun with my students and exercise for myself.I am 55 years old and hope to never have another real fight in my life.But it is good to know if I have to defend myself or my family,I can.I just hope I don't have to.