Mugging in NYC

[Dan_The_Man]

This is hilarious. 4 pages of shit flinging since yesterday!

Jubaji, your childish name calling is getting a bit old mate, grow up.

It seems that throughout this entire thread we have one half stating that sport arts like BJJ and Muay Thai are not designed, and therefore not effective, for reality based self defence situations. That’s not to say that a Muay Thai fighter will never get out of a mugging or confrontation, he still knows how to throw a punch, but there are so many factors involved in RBSD situations like the mugging in the original article that a Muay Thai class will not prepare you for. Surely we can all agree on this?

The other half just seem set on twisting words to support an utterly pointless argument.

What are we really disputing here? What is the debate? It seems to have turned in to a RBSD Vs Sport Arts. Well, lets just think about that for a second. Which practice is more likely to increase your chances of survival in a mugging? I don’t even need to say it as I think this point has been stressed enough.

And what’s everyone's problem with Uke? He sure as hell is giving a lot more to the debate than most of the name callers in this thread.

[jubaji]

Where is the lie, excrement?

[TTEscrima]

You admitted earlier that you put no effort into finding these stories

Actually, he tries not to post anything of substance because he can't remember which lie he told last. Boar caught him in a doozy which was erased, here's another case of his lies not adding up, it too will no doubt disappear.

Here is an old post from 2005 when he was lying to Boar about learning as a kid.

http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/c...e-augment.html Post number 9

Oh, I was wrestling from the minute I hit the ground.

And here's one from last week:

Let's see, I started wrestling when I was 7, ....

http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/c...fu-mma-15.html post number 216



Looks like he's now using dog years to calculate his BS. And there you have the reason he rarely posts any substance with nearly 9000 posts he can't possibly keep his lies straight. Isn't it interesting he's calling someone else a liar? I don't know about the rest of you, but I "hit the ground" LONG before I was 7, no doubt he'll try to wiggle out of this lie too or try to edit his post again.

[jubaji]

Where did he attempt to te-bo him?

Why do you keep bringing up tae-bo? Do you believe Garland practices tae-bo? Are you lying again, you no-class, low-life shitbag?

[Uke]

Bismarck Tribune - North Dakota News - Fargo man wrestles knife from attacker -- This story only says that the victim grabbed the knife hand and hit the mugger. Where did he attempt to te-bo him?

ISIAH CAREY'S 'INSITE': MAN ALLEGEDLY TRIES TO ATTACK QUANELL X AT FITNESS GYM! --- This story had several people overwhelm one man with a knife. When they wrote "wrestled" they didn't mean the kind that includes suplexes and firemen's carries. And in case you missed it, several people against one man with a knife hardly satisfies the challenge.

Women fend off attacker with Kleenex box, curtain rod -- In this story the robber never intended to hurt anyone. He could have easily have killed the elderly woman to quiet her or keep her from resisting, but instead he kept using verbal cues as opposed to any real force. There is no real attack unless you use force. He had a knife an NEVER attempted to use it. That wasn't self defense .. that was two women who beat up an unwilling would-be robber.

Cabbie, cousin knifed by passenger: The attacker robbed the two men at knifepoint and stabbed them before hurling racial slurs at them. | Article from Tulsa World (Tulsa, OK) | HighBeam Research --This one is just like the second one. It took multiple men to subdue one man with a blade. In both examples it was a group effort, not any one man using "wrestling" to save his ass.

TPF: Italian Tourist Fights Off Knife Attack On Upper East Side -- This is the only story where someone actually fought on their own to survive. And in this story she simply resisted. She didn't wrestle or tae-bo the mugger. She simply grabbed the knife and did her best. The mugger's intention was to rob her, not kill her. Otherwise he would have continued until he did kill her.

Like IPON stated earlier, none of your stories made you and Garland's case any stronger. In fact, all you did was type in the words "knife" and "wrestle" into a search engine and you posted what came up. And the fact that you thought that these stories support anything you've said shows that you're completely retarded. We were discussing violence, not intimidation, on an individual level. The stories you gave me might as well have been the Gracie brothers who travel in packs to keep it fair.

You admitted earlier that you put no effort into finding these stories, but what you failed to mention that you just went out and did a homework assignment that UKE gave you like a good little bitch.

DJForest was right ... You can be house broken!

[jubaji]

• The people who believe that kickboxing and wrestling work on the streets don't factor in size..

More ignorance.

[Uke]

Street violence vs ring aggression misconceptions

A couple of things became clear in this debate:

• Some people don't know the difference between direct method and artsy, classical MA.

People who kick and punch also take stances and posture, which is the equivalent of yelling "En garde!". Without being able to directly engage your opponent in close quarters it'll just become a drawn out brawl that makes for more time for other elements to be introduced. That is not intelligent.

• Some people think that being cut is the same as being killed.

Once cut all their will is gone, and therefore so is the fight in them. Once that's gone, it's over.

• Some people believe that arguments that escalate into fights are the same as muggings.

This couldn't be more wrong. Sure there can be violence in both, but one is abrupt and you're forced to asses and react without warning. I'm sure that ring fighters would do well in situations where they knew the violence was coming. No one said that they couldn't fight, but violence in the street is all about the science of the sucker punch and weapons. And nothing about boxing, kickboxing or wrestling teaches you to deal with those things rapidly and without making it a match. You don't save you ass by giving the other guy a chance. And you don't take away the other guy's chances by dueling or competing.

• Some people think that dealing with blades is impossible.

Musashi fought a great many duels using a wooden boken. Most of these duels were to the death. What Musashi showed the world by doing this is that once you have a level of mastery in the nature of a thing you can successfully deal with it even when severely handicapped. His choice of weapon did not matter because Musashi's greater understanding led him to develop an approach that allowed him to be superior despite his perceived position of weakness. And even though today's RBSD is predicated on the same methodology, it’s thought to be impossible by some people due to their own limitations.

• Some people actually believe in the supposed safety of "positions".

There are people who actually believe and practice everyday in what they feel are safe positions to work/fight from. These include the muay thai clinch, the wrestling shoot and clinch, the BJJ mount and the guard, the boxing clinch. In what world do any of these positions offer any safety outside of schools and rings? Those positions were created to avoid getting struck by punches and kicks while trying to use your own offense. Any of those positions leave you wide open to weapons, and some of them leave you completely immobile so that you can't run or fight back when the second or third guy decided to put in his two cents. Where's the awareness and intelligence in that?

• The people who believe that kickboxing and wrestling work on the streets don't factor in size.

One of the biggest elements that people who think that ring sports work in street altercations don't factor in is size. If sports like kickboxing and wrestling were so effective, then why can't women seem to use them to beat men? There are women who have beaten men in violent altercations, but they weren't kickboxing or wrestling them. If you put one of the 160lbs boxers from Thailand into K-1 against 200lbs+ men like Ewerton Teixeira this point would be made in one round.

The point would be that if your effectiveness is predicated upon your opponent being at or around your own weight/height, then what you're doing doesn't ring of reality. It's basically saying that you'll only fight for your life when the mugger is your size. A 160lbs man kicking and punching a 150lbs man would feel a lot different than the 160lbs man punching and kicking a 220lbs man. Power in boxing/kickboxing translates with size disparities. Weight makes big difference when wrestling. And once your opponent is larger than you, aside from a sucker punch you'd be attacking strength, and that is not intelligent.

Awareness, avoidance, and intelligence are the gold standard.

I agree with the idea that those three qualities play an important role in self defense. Intelligence is a given. With that said, what would awareness and avoidance have done for the man in this news story? Is there a level of awareness that can stop you from getting sucker punched? It was my understanding that ANYONE can be gotten to. Hell, even Reagan got shot and he had several secret service agents always guarding him. And that wasn't a sniper job.

What would avoidance have done for the man in this story? Of course its always best to avoid confrontation when possible, but often times it isn't possible. And sometimes but not always, people get so wrapped up in avoidance that they put themselves in worse positions. The violence in this story and most other muggings is usually brought to the victim in hopes to intimidate or make it easy. I said it earlier and I'll say it again ... there's a difference between arguments that escalate and street muggings. In the city where people walk by and bump each other all the time and think nothing of it its hard if not impossible to be aware of everyone around you. Criminals know this and use it to their advantage every day.

My point here is that while awareness and avoidance are useful, they aren't flags sport competitors should wave everytime there's a discussion about self defense just so they can say seem intimate with self defense itself.

[TTEscrima]

Its hard to take that fool seriously, TTE. You know that any grown person who spends years online doing what he does has to have a really sad and pathetic life. That's no speculation either. What kind of person has time to write almost 9,000 posts of that garbage? He's to be pitied and occasionally laughed at.

We both come here to write about MA and our experiences in it. He comes here to do nothing but put on exhibition his misery and dire need for someone to engage him. He doesn't care if its good or bad attention, as long as its attention. And for some strange reason, the mods here all agree to let him do it.

Do you care? Neither do I. It does get a bit annoying when the mods shield him from retaliation, but its clear that he needs it. He probably pm's whichever mod and cries up a storm and asks for shelter. I've sure as hell never seen them act on our behalf.

So let him bark and display just how unhappy he is. Hell, I'm sure that what he goes through in his life is worth than anything we could say or do to him. I'm oddly comforted by that.

Indeed, I think just about everyone from Arieson to Brewer have pointed out what a drooling retard he is, hell it was Brewer who said no one in their right mind believed a word he posted. His posts are the laughing stock of SD forums internet wide much like Gecko 45's were.

[jubaji]

Quote:
Originally Posted by pUke
you still can't produce even one article about you or one of your brothers in tae-bo surviving let alone winning a mugging situation.

Did Garland ever claim that what he practiced was tae-bo? Or is that more of your lying bullshit, you dishonest pissy little no class punk?

Still no answer to this one...

[Uke]

Well when your every post is quoted and your screename changed to include the sexual fantasies of a pervert, the standard for civility accepted by the site is rather ambiguous. Add the fact that the major violator is repeatedly allowed to flaunt the fact that he is immune to the sites rules posted everywhere. Now factor in that if someone dares to insult the resident mongrel back they're warned about the forum rules for RESPONDING to his attacks.

The Rules of this forum are as followed.

1. NO PERSONAL ATTACKS
2. Inappropriate content will not be tolerated.

Anyone want to bet I can find over a thousand violations of the first rule alone by the resident troll? Lord only knows how many of his posts fit the second rule. Yet the ONLY time anything is said is when someone gives it back to him.

Its hard to take that fool seriously, TTE. You know that any grown person who spends years online doing what he does has to have a really sad and pathetic life. That's no speculation either. What kind of person has time to write almost 9,000 posts of that garbage? He's to be pitied and occasionally laughed at.

We both come here to write about MA and our experiences in it. He comes here to do nothing but put on exhibition his misery and dire need for someone to engage him. He doesn't care if its good or bad attention, as long as its attention. And for some strange reason, the mods here all agree to let him do it.

Do you care? Neither do I. It does get a bit annoying when the mods shield him from retaliation, but its clear that he needs it. He probably pm's whichever mod and cries up a storm and asks for shelter. I've sure as hell never seen them act on our behalf.

So let him bark and display just how unhappy he is. Hell, I'm sure that what he goes through in his life is worth than anything we could say or do to him. I'm oddly comforted by that.

[jubaji]

over a 20 year career period I had too many situations to count that involved multiple armed and hostile grown men who had to be detained in combat .

So you want to talk about experiences in actual military combat? Why don't you start another thread for that so I can shut up about it until you try to draw illogical connections.

[jubaji]

Further proof of jubaji's and Garland's glaring ignorance is that knives are not known for their stopping power unless you physically make it impossible for an attacker to continue. Men have had their arms and legs sliced up, stabbed in the belly, stabbed in the chest and kept going. Physical pain can be endured, but these two idiots believe that in knife situations the first time you get cut you "instantly" fall to the ground and die. This assumption alone pins their ignorance to their chests.

Of course these are just more of pUke's shameless lies. He is a no class lying sackless bag of shit and he always will be.

That's why this seems so unbelievable to these two clowns: They have no idea about what really happens so they take their cues from movies and books.

More lies from the dickless clown.

RBSD has always taught men to work smarter, not harder. Working harder is and always has been the methodology of competition arts. Its how they train and what they train for. If they truly were as effective as Garland and jubaji would love to believe then how could they go on for 10-12 rounds?

Again, your ignorance is glaring.

A mugging is a gun to the small of your back or a knife to your throat or a knife in your gut.

Oh, like in all of the examples I posted? Idiot.

I don't speak in absolutes

Fucking liar. You frequently speak in absolutes and even more frequently lie.

jubaji would stand up and yell "Mayo Basho!" while writing about how he met the yokozuna in an effort to seem like he's done sumo too.

More lies and stupid, ignorant bullshit from the pUke.

[TTEscrima]

Here's an idea? Lets all try to be a little more civil? It seems clear that there is a broad spectrum of views on mortality and individual capabilities. It is foolish to assume any ONE thing may be "REASONABLE" in any two situations.

Well when your every post is quoted and your screename changed to include the sexual fantasies of a pervert, the standard for civility accepted by the site is rather ambiguous. Add the fact that the major violator is repeatedly allowed to flaunt the fact that he is immune to the sites rules posted everywhere. Now factor in that if someone dares to insult the resident mongrel back they're warned about the forum rules for RESPONDING to his attacks.

The Rules of this forum are as followed.

1. NO PERSONAL ATTACKS
2. Inappropriate content will not be tolerated.

Anyone want to bet I can find over a thousand violations of the first rule alone by the resident troll? Lord only knows how many of his posts fit the second rule. Yet the ONLY time anything is said is when someone gives it back to him.

[TTEscrima]

Nope, I only speak from my own actual experience and something you are not familiar with called common sense. As I recall, some of my experience made you feel all insecure for some reason because you could not claim the same.

OMFG. DUDE, your claims in the BS story you posted tied for first place in the equivalent to a hog contest for the most ridiculous claims about a fight people could find on the net, not only is it utterly hysterical, the fact you're trying to claim that it makes people insecure just demonstrates how little understanding you really have of fights much less edged weapon encounters facing multiple opponents.

As for my comments about my experience as a vet, yep JR over a 20 year career period I had too many situations to count that involved multiple armed and hostile grown men who had to be detained in combat zones or extracted from their homes or vehicles by hand. I'd say that qualifies me to speak on violence more than your activities on the mat at school with other schoolboys. Somehow you think your rolling around with school boys in spandex is something other people envy you for, it isn't.

[Tant01]

Here's an idea? Lets all try to be a little more civil? It seems clear that there is a broad spectrum of views on mortality and individual capabilities. It is foolish to assume any ONE thing may be "REASONABLE" in any two situations.