Discussion on what makes a good seld defense cirriculum

[WildWest.]

I still can't pos rep anyone these days

[kingoftheforest]

bump.........

[Junka]

I'll be damned!! You'll probably be unhappier about the this than that...somehow I managed to write Mick Coup when I was picturing Bob Spour (and this clip in my mind).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOTwg_YXYy0

A bit off topic but i trained with Bob Spour back in the very early nineties. He didn't wear camo gear then and as was always pictured in the magazines wearing Muay Thai gear and that is what he was teaching. He was teaching under Kru Sken at the time I believe and his training partner was a stunt double for Sean Connery in Medicine Man and worked with Dolph Lungdren on another movie. Bob is also an amateur actor.

Back then there was no mention of his SAS background and he put all of his techniques down to his training in Thailand. He did favor the use of open hand attacks in the street. I favor closed fist myself though since you can spar against an opponent who hits back. Bob seemed to suggest that you could spar closed fist but used open hand for the street and, whilst not doubting he could, I find I react with what I train. The military training would explain his fitness, he was then in his mid forties and in VERY good physical condition.

He was very informal and everyone called him 'Bob', no fancy titles just 'Bob'. He taught no grappling but had a great respect for Judo and welcomed his Judoka students to share their techniques from time to time.

He was inadvertently the man who introduced me to sportive ring combat. I left for London eventually and continued various forms of boxing/kick boxing amongst others.

A bit off topic as i said but I thought I'd share anyway.

[kingoftheforest]

guys I saw this video , i think it helps, it shows some ideas on fighting
YouTube - Some ideas about fighting

Seems to have covered most of the general principles that govern a realistic street fight.

[martial09k]

guys I saw this video , i think it helps, it shows some ideas on fighting
YouTube - Some ideas about fighting

[Uke]

The point I want to get across is the difference between 'hit and stick' and 'hit and bounce' so the differences in my body mechanics are just me exaggerating the effects of both methods.

As a point of interest, the impactive second shot is the real business, compared to the impulsive first blow. I used to really overcook the demo, and often put the recipient onto his back a couple of yards away with the first, but he would be relatively unharmed, and then drop him onto his knees with the second blow fighting for breath, unable to continue. Guess what? Everybody just wanted to see the first shot again, ignoring the more effective second demo as it wasn't as dramatic! These days I tone it down to get the point across more clearly...

Mick

Most people have been conditioned to think that the knockdown and the takedown are the goal instead of keeping your man stunned and in front of you so that you can work. In almost every instance the knockdown and the takedown score points or signify some sort of win in sports, so most people are programmed to see those results as positive. I've written in the past that if you lack true KO power then all that one big strike is going to do is push your opponent back and give him an opportunity to regroup and reach for whatever.

From what I read, it sounds like you're speaking about the concepts of "touch and go" VS "one strike, one kill" to me. Understanding that motion causes motion forces a man to strike intelligently for autonomic responses so that you don't have to play catch up with your opponent's position.

Good point.

[Tant01]

I'm still 6 hours from San Jose (drive)

It'll be mainly split between the Los Angeles and San Jose areas, primarily for law enforcement personnel but some 'open' events as well.

Mick

Would you mind sending details when you get ready to fly out? I'm WAY up north but would love to get a taste of your science and style...

Thanks kindly,

~Ray

[TTEscrima]

TTEscrima - here you go: http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/c...tml#post296955

I'll be damned!! You'll probably be unhappier about the this than that...somehow I managed to write Mick Coup when I was picturing Bob Spour (and this clip in my mind).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOTwg_YXYy0

[Mick Coup]

TTEscrima - here you go: http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/c...tml#post296955

FoolsTP,

That clip should be viewed in context really, it was a tiny part of an overview seminar, of which the full content list is here: C2: FOUNDATION ELEMENTS SEMINAR OUTLINE

The footage just shows 'Striking Effects - Impact vs. Impulse Kinetic Energy' from the 'Impact Development Factors' portion of the seminar, so really the mechanics of the blow are irrelevant for the purposes of the demonstration. Sometimes I'll use a hook, or even just an abstract backhanded forearm blow, it doesn't really matter as it's the effect that is investigated, not the process.

The point I want to get across is the difference between 'hit and stick' and 'hit and bounce' so the differences in my body mechanics are just me exaggerating the effects of both methods.

As a point of interest, the impactive second shot is the real business, compared to the impulsive first blow. I used to really overcook the demo, and often put the recipient onto his back a couple of yards away with the first, but he would be relatively unharmed, and then drop him onto his knees with the second blow fighting for breath, unable to continue. Guess what? Everybody just wanted to see the first shot again, ignoring the more effective second demo as it wasn't as dramatic! These days I tone it down to get the point across more clearly...

Mick

[FoolsTP]

while i got ya here

hey mick,

while i have you here, there was something i noticed about that first clip that i wanted to know more about. When you do the "external punch" you don't move that back leg, but when you do the better bunch you look like your back foot is brought in with the arm, pretyt much at the same time.. not like a r. i just wanted to know what your explanation of that is cause it seemed pretty interesting.

thanks and again sorry if this is unrelated.

[TTEscrima]

By the way TTEscrima, didn't you once describe me as being 'not a nice guy' on an earlier thread? I told my old mum about this and she'd like a word...

Mick

I recall stating you were a verified BTDT, but I don't recall saying you weren't a nice guy, can't say as I have a frame of reference other than your writings and the few video clips. Besides if I'm gonna make a derogatory reference its usually substantially stronger than saying someones not a nice guy, geesh that's almost a compliment.

[Middleweight]

How about a little critical enlightenment KOTF?

Lets say I have a couple of counter points and apologize in advance if I've taken anything out of context or MIS construed something?

I think ANY art that calls itself "Martial" should be weapon based.

Lets be perfectly real for a moment? DO you honestly think a pugilistic approach is right for SD?

"some type of punching and kicking art should be a good base for SD"

I try to teach my kids the most basic stuff... ESCAPES from common holds and evasion skills. Make them miss! Of course there are many uses for stomping and elbows, knees and head butting... Every tool has some use.

The advantage of being armed for SD purposes can not be stressed enough.

Pick something LEGAL for your state (country). Kubotons and other sticks are not in some states.

In America we can own guns and use them? A knife is a fine option as well in my opinion. Sadly a knife is more than slightly stigmatized by many courts...

I'm not going to endorse the "Gracie" approach to personal combat but there is a good deal to be said for PUTTING YOUR ATTACKERS ON THE GROUND.
Be it at gun point or "hands on" I will always prefer them FACE DOWN on the deck. Broken, bleeding or dead...

I gotta tell ya KOTF... The last thing I want for my girls to try to duke it out with someone trying to harm them... Does it seem even slightly absurd?

No less absurd than "grappling" on the ground for SD? A little girl VS violent felon? Give me a break?

What about those escapes and counters? A thumb lock (DESTRUCTION) EZ as pie right? Fingers... same. Same, eh? Wrist locks? Elbow attacks? There are SO many THINGS we can do with our hands and feet besides punch and kick... I think many of THOSE things are superior to a pugilistic approach.

Gotta run I type too slow and have a short little attention span.

Later

"Improvised weapons"

110 lb little teen babe jammed her ballpoint pen into the perp's eyeball... after she bit his arm right to the bone. He lost an eye. 2 bad, very sad

Whatever works

[Middleweight]

Remember, combatives/self defense/and martial arts in general is NOT your strong suit, and last I checked this wasn't a history site.....

Some jerk from Peabody Coal would smash it with a brick

Dang!! This was a reply to the signature about solar panels and Coal.

I am learning, bpw me

[Mick Coup]

It'll be mainly split between the Los Angeles and San Jose areas, primarily for law enforcement personnel but some 'open' events as well.

Mick

[Tant01]

It's a big state?

Compared to what others say about me, that's a compliment indeed!

If anyone's interested, I'll be over in California late March teaching for a couple of weeks.

Mick

That's MY side of the country but what part of the state?

Thanks Mr. C.