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street applicable brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

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  • street applicable brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    As with any martial art geared toward unarmed combat, their are inherent weaknesses to be exploited by even the most untrained individuals, and always seem to leave "what if's" in the minds of those who think outside the box. The weaknesses ironically become even easier for those who are untrained or just downright vicious to exploit when the trianed individual relies on the sport or safe form of their chosen martial in a street fight. Those who compete or spar at 100% with the sport (safe) form no doubt create true fighting skill due to their art not being practiced in choreographed moves on compliant partners only; but to lose offensive and defensive awareness of the most vicious techniques that even the most untrained average Joe could pull off (eye gouging, groin grabs/strikes, biting, strikes to throat) could cost you immensly.
    I have enormous faith in the techniques of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu when and if a true fight hits the ground, but just as any art, some of the techniques in BJJ are just not street applicable, as they leave you too open for attacks mainly to the eyes. The limbs may be tied up enough to have your adversary not be able to strike you with any power, or his posture may be controlled enough for him not to generate any power in strikes, but the hand(s) are able to generate enough power in eye gouging, clawing, or jabbing at the eyes to turn the tide of a fight completely. This should be obvious, but when I mention this reality, many seem to have not realized it. this goes for offense too, some techniques in BJJ tie up your opponent so much so, that you could quite easily destroy one or both of the eyes without much difficulty. As cruel as this may seem, and as queezy as some may feel at the mere thought of rupturing someone's eyes; I believe its wise to at least gear your mind toward eye attacks. This could be the deciding factor in a true life or death fight against one other unarmed person who is as vicious as you need to be.
    ""Some" techniques in BJJ that are just not street applicable. Double underhooks (bear hug) when in any bottom position. Someone could simply shove both thumbs into your eyes with no problem, forcing you to release your underhooks or face permanent damage. Arm bar setups from guard leaves you wide open for eye gouging. Having your opponent in side control without immediatly controlling his free arm toward your head is just as dangerous. Having your attacker in a deep guillotine still runs the risk of the attacker easily shoving his thumb on his opposite side arm into your eye. These are a few out of MANY
    From a defensive standpoint in any bottom position, street applicable techniques would include double overhooks (over top of his rear deltoids into his armpits) a guillotine type "hold" while controlling the free arm with wrist control, overhooking the head while overhooking one arm, and keeping your cheek to his cheek away from his unrestrained arm.....a few....
    From an offensive standpoint, some techniques that are completely safe from eye gouging of any kind and may give you the chance to damage the attacker's eyes are (arm triangle, triangle from mount while controlling his free arm with wrist control, modified crucifix from side control, americana, inverted arm bar, kimura from side control, arm bar set up rear mount or side control from a kimura attempt, etc) just some. Many escapes in BJJ could use a healthy dose of eye gouging, clawing to jabbing....escape from side control, rear naked escape, escape from triangle choke, escape head and arm, etc.....
    I have full faith in BJJ as a street applicable art as long as certain techniques that are good for the street are practiced. The mind must be geared toward what to use in a truly vicious fight for life, as obviously there is no way to train for this at full speed safely with your partner.
    What do you all think? Let me here WHY whether you agree or not.
    Last edited by aware; 09-05-2009, 07:09 PM. Reason: Added one more statement at end

  • #2
    Seems like BJJ is "bullet proof"! The late GM Helio said so himself!

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    • #3
      Did that come in a blue and yellow can?

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      • #4
        Read my sig.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by TTEscrima View Post
          Read my sig.
          "My work is done, what else is there to say."

          Nothing...................???

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          • #6
            Give a guy's brother a few months of training in Newaza and watch the world gobble it up?

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            • #7
              Tant01...?

              I don't know what you are referring to or what you are saying in your last couple posts. I did see your sig. I'd like to get direct responses on my thread, as anyone would on this site. Let me know why you feel the way you do.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by aware View Post
                I don't know what you are referring to or what you are saying in your last couple posts. I did see your sig. I'd like to get direct responses on my thread, as anyone would on this site. Let me know why you feel the way you do.
                OK. Here's the disclaimer on the Gracie Combatives program.

                "Practicing tournament or sport techniques is risky, even if you understand they will not work in a real fight. In a real fight you must rely on trained instincts. If you dilute your training with impure, unrealistic sport applications of Gracie Jiu-jitsu you will hinder your ability to respond quickly and effectively with the right technique. Worse you may reflexively execute a sports technique with potentially disastrous consequences. While there is little harm in sampling the techniques of Gracie Jui-jitsu, you risk developing bad habits if you practice these techniques to the point of developing reflexes."


                Anymore questions?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by aware View Post
                  I don't know what you are referring to or what you are saying in your last couple posts. I did see your sig. I'd like to get direct responses on my thread, as anyone would on this site. Let me know why you feel the way you do.

                  I'm saying SPORT arts can get you planted in a box if you try to use these techniques in a real fight.

                  "If someone points a gun at you, of course, you will be scared. But jiu-jutsu gives me the equivalent of a bullet proof shield. It protects me from head to toe, plus it gives me the ability to take a gun away."
                  GM Helio Gracie. via Doug Jeffrey. (From the April '05 issue of GRAPPLING magazine)

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tant01 View Post
                    I'm saying SPORT arts can get you planted in a box if you try to use these techniques in a real fight.


                    Sure, just like betting your ass on anything you've never actually done can get you planted in a box if you try to use these techniques in a real fight.

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                    • #11
                      Don't ask how I know.

                      Originally posted by jubaji View Post
                      Sure, just like betting your ass on anything you've never actually done can get you planted in a box if you try to use these techniques in a real fight.
                      No argument there Jubs. Even if you do and survive it there are usually legal consequences...

                      Not to mention the doctor bills.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Tant01 View Post
                        No argument there Jubs. Even if you do and survive it there are usually legal consequences...

                        Not to mention the doctor bills.


                        Seems like it would be less trouble to stay out of trouble.

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                        • #13
                          That's okay

                          Originally posted by aware View Post
                          I don't know what you are referring to or what you are saying in your last couple posts. I did see your sig. I'd like to get direct responses on my thread, as anyone would on this site. Let me know why you feel the way you do.
                          I'm not entirely sure what the point of your topic is...

                          "I have enormous faith in the techniques of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu "

                          "I have full faith in BJJ as a street applicable art ..."

                          Are you exploring the benifits of the training methods or the weaknesses of the style as it pertains to self protection in the real world?



                          Don't get me wrong, eh? BJJ is great fun. I just think it is more than slightly over rated, there is way too much hype and marketing to sell it as "self defense" and not enough emphasis on the unpredictable nature of violence.

                          The debate is not exactly new here...

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                          • #14
                            the point of the topic

                            I am still not hearing why you all feel dissent toward BJJ in a street applicable form. I have given specific techniques that are and are not realistic in my assessment. I did mention the nature of this "fight" being against one, unarmed person. Obviously, the use of improvised weapons or any weapons change the nature of the battle for both parties.
                            I am looking for actual answers from anyone about what martial art they feel is street credible or have used in a real fight, not quotes or smart alec replies. WHY.....is the question I would like to have answered. This is a martial arts website in the RBMA section so I want to hear what you all have faith in, or have used.
                            Last edited by aware; 09-06-2009, 02:27 PM. Reason: spell check

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                            • #15
                              .........

                              Originally posted by jubaji View Post
                              Sure, just like betting your ass on anything you've never actually done can get you planted in a box if you try to use these techniques in a real fight.
                              What have you used? What were the circumstances of the fight? What martial art do you practice/compete in? I still don't have any replies that address (Why) to anything I wrote. I supplied techniques with explanations of why I felt they were or were not street applicable. I woule like a response in the same format. Explain why.

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