Virtue of the Sword

[Darth Roley]

I think some one is just a little bit bitter that perhaps he was draw into the whole "You have to expierence the culture first hand to understand it" and now he doesn't want to look silly by himself.

You seem to be missing the point.

If Williams were teaching a way of using a katana, and only that, without the fancy dress and titles and such, then we would not be having this conversation. There is a guy out in San Diego that sells a videotape on how to use the katana while wearing jeans that is not for me, but I don't have a problem with it. The same goes for the guy who runs Cold Steel that has video series on using the katana.

It is the fact that Williams is somehow presenting what he does as if it were a continuation of the past that he has built on that causes eyebrows to rise. As I said, he seems to be talking about following in the footsteps of the samurai when he really seems to be imposing what he wants the samurai to be instead of reality.

It is like I wanted to present myself as an indian shaman based on a mixture of traditions and my own vision of what they were supposed to be. If I just came up with my own stuff and form a group with a name like "mystic visions" without the indian trappings, it would just be another new age group. When I start wearing Apache dress, talking about the brave warriors that went before us in my tradition and chanting in a strange version of Apache that you start giving a wrong impression about what went on before.

And really, as for the content of what he writes with all of his talk about protecting and being willing to fight the good fight, the image that goes through my mind is the guy Dom Deluise turned into from time to time during the movie Cannonball Run. I think his name was Captain Chaos. I can just imagine him being the inspiration for all that was written.

"Look JJ! Two men fighting with knives! I can't let that happen! Da Da Dum!"

When you look at the works of the samurai like the Hagakure, you do not get that type of impression. Parts of the Hagakure have been translated into English, but not the full version AFAIK and certainly not all the commentaries about it that you can find in Japanese. The vision of a warrior you see in works like that is a lot grimmer. One of the most misunderstood quotes from the Hagakure goes like this.

The way of the samurai can be found in death.

Most people seem to think that it meant that the samurai had a death wish. Nothing could be further from the truth. But if doing the right thing meant that they would die, then they were ready to die.

Do you see the difference? It is not a willingness to fight for a good cause, but to die for a good cause.

Most of us that are parents are willing to die for our kids. If someone burst into the mall shooting, I for one would be willing to take a few bullets if it meant my kids got away while I was being shot. That does not make me a warrior in my opinion, that makes me a person worthy of the name "father." I do not elevate myself for being willing to die for my kids, I rather have contempt for anyone who would not die for their kids.

But would I die to stop two guys from having a knife fight? Well, now the situation changes quite a bit looked at in that light does it not? I would be willing to maybe hit one of the idiots (probably fighting over a girl or a bad drug deal) over the head from behind if it was safe. But there is no way I am going to risk my children having to be raised without a father unless I know I am making the world a better place for them.

I do not put my life on the line as part of my job for some greater good. I do not patrol the streets looking for killers, I do not go out on patrol in Iraq and I do not run into buildings about to collapse as a paramedic or firefighter.

I know what I would die for. The problem with the message that Williams puts out that he is only talking about the fighting and not the dying. He is emphasizing one and pretty much ignoring another. Watching out for kids is just part of being a father. Putting your life on the line to save people you don't even know like those firefighters that ran into the towers on 9-11 is a whole different level.

[kingoftheforest]

You seem to be missing the point.

It is the fact that Williams is somehow presenting what he does as if it were a continuation of the past that he has built on that causes eyebrows to rise. As I said, he seems to be talking about following in the footsteps of the samurai when he really seems to be imposing what he wants the samurai to be instead of reality.

Historians, those are the people who write the books you then read and claim to know about the past more than others, argue on what really went on.

So now you are claiming you know more than people who spend their entire lives studying subjects and writing about them?

Once again you can't possibly know what the Samurai did or didn't do, you can only conjecture out of books.


I ask again, and until you address this question I have nothing further to discuss with you.


What makes you a greater authority on Samurai culture and use of the katana than Williams?


See he has this funny thing backing him up called credentials and an established background.

What's yours?

[Darth Roley]

Historians, those are the people who write the books you then read and claim to know about the past more than others, argue on what really went on.

So now you are claiming you know more than people who spend their entire lives studying subjects and writing about them?

Once again you can't possibly know what the Samurai did or didn't do, you can only conjecture out of books.

I might not be the best expert on the subject, but I do have a bit more experience in a kenjutsu dojo than Williams. No one knows for certain what went on, but that does not excuse not making a better effort than he seems to have made.

I ask again, and until you address this question I have nothing further to discuss with you.


What makes you a greater authority on Samurai culture and use of the katana than Williams?


See he has this funny thing backing him up called credentials and an established background.

What's yours?

What exactly are his credentials in kenjutsu that are recognized in Japan? Perhaps you can answer that question.

I happen to have a teaching license from the head of an art that teaches sword in Japan. I have experienced many martial arts while I lived there and read and seen a lot more.

I speak from my experience when I say that what Williams does differs a great deal from what he presents as the tradition he claims he built it on.

[kingoftheforest]

I happen to have a teaching license from the head of an art that teaches sword in Japan. I have experienced many martial arts while I lived there and read and seen a lot more.

I'll address the none opinion part of your post.


What school. What title did they give you? Who was the teacher or head of the school?

[Darth Roley]

I'll address the none opinion part of your post.


What school. What title did they give you? Who was the teacher or head of the school?

Is one enough? Then the Bujinkan should suffice. There really is no title other than 'shidoshi' that should be translated as teacher. There are plenty of people on- line that know me from there and can confirm what I say so that is the easiest for you to confirm.

I also have grades and/or experience in Kotoeri ryu, Shindo Muso ryu, Suifu ryu, Yagyu Shingan ryu and a few other modern arts in Japan. Getting you in contact with people that you can communicate with without a translator might be a bit more difficult.

[kingoftheforest]

Is one enough? Then the Bujinkan should suffice. There really is no title other than 'shidoshi' that should be translated as teacher. There are plenty of people on- line that know me from there and can confirm what I say so that is the easiest for you to confirm.

I also have grades and/or experience in Kotoeri ryu, Shindo Muso ryu, Suifu ryu, Yagyu Shingan ryu and a few other modern arts in Japan. Getting you in contact with people that you can communicate with without a translator might be a bit more difficult.

Bujinkan, is associated maily with ninjitsu, they also teach Samurai Katana?

It's an easy copout to say the people who can verify you don't speak English.
I don't know a whole lot of international schools that won't teach you if you don't speak the language, especially one as promeinent as Bujinkan.


Possibly we could see some vids of your use of the Katana. Actions speak louder than words or pieces of paper.

You can wear your ninja gear to hide your identity if that's bothering you.

[Darth Roley]

Bujinkan, is associated maily with ninjitsu, they also teach Samurai Katana?

Actually, they are most famous due to the ninjutsu label being marketed by some folks outside of Japan. The Bujinkan does have Kukishinden ryu, which has katana use as part of its curriculum.

It's an easy copout to say the people who can verify you don't speak English.
I don't know a whole lot of international schools that won't teach you if you don't speak the language, especially one as promeinent as Bujinkan.

I think you misunderstood what I said. The Bujinkan credentials would be the easiest for you to confirm. There are a lot of people on the internet that have seen me and know me from when I was studying in Japan. If you contact a few of them you can confirm what I say. At least one organization I belonged to can correspond in English at the central office, but not the teacher who taught me. Some of the other teachers I learned under do not speak English and are small enough that I do not know if anyone can write in English. If you want to contact them, I can put you in touch but you will have to correspond in Japanese. Since that is perhaps a bit difficult, I thought that the Bujinkan might be the best bet.

Possibly we could see some vids of your use of the Katana. Actions speak louder than words or pieces of paper.

You can wear your ninja gear to hide your identity if that's bothering you.

Ah, but what qualifications do you have to tell good stuff from bad? That is the tack you were taking up to now, wasn't it? Unless I had more credentials in kenjutsu than Williams, I did not have the right to say his stuff was not very Japanese. Now you are saying you just want to see what I do and judge without seeming to have any credentials of your own.

On a more serious note, how are you to tell what would work and what would not work? That is the problem that has faced people in these matters. The big thing people here find impressive about Williams is his ability to cut targets. In kenjutsu, that is like judging a karate student on his street fighting skills based on his board breaking.

Oh, and if you do a google search of "Bujinkan" and "Roley" you will find that I am not concerned about concealing my identity at all. I thought it would be obvious to folks that did even a simple search by using my real last name.

[kingoftheforest]

It was nice talking to you (I'm being polite). It seems that you are going to continue to twist and turn and hem and haw and say...


"Go find my credentials yourself."

This is a futile effort to allow you to present hard fact and evidence, not


"Well the guys you need to talk to don't have any way of communicating in your language"

or

"The one school I gave you that should have been good enough, kinda sorta teaches katana a little bit."


Your evasiveness and lack of ability to provide info to back up your credentials is enough for me to understand that there aren't any that come close to the person you have a grudge against.

Keep your theory, I myself have experienced enough to prove that theory wrong.

You're just a new incarnation of an old problem.

[Tokyo Kid]

Is one enough? Then the Bujinkan should suffice. There really is no title other than 'shidoshi' that should be translated as teacher. There are plenty of people on- line that know me from there and can confirm what I say so that is the easiest for you to confirm.

I also have grades and/or experience in Kotoeri ryu, Shindo Muso ryu, Suifu ryu, Yagyu Shingan ryu and a few other modern arts in Japan. Getting you in contact with people that you can communicate with without a translator might be a bit more difficult.

Bujinkan? Are you kidding me?

No, that definitely will not suffice.

[Darth Roley]

Well King, I gave you a chance and I guess you do not want to take it for reasons of your own.

But for anyone else who wishes to confirm what I say you merely have to do a internet search of my name and Bujinkan and you will find many references to me and many posts by me on various forums. You will see how I am treated by folks that live or lived in Japan studying various budo and bujutsu and can probably tell that they treat me as someone who is a fanatic about learning and who took all the chances I could to learn while in Japan.

[kingoftheforest]

Oh I looked. You must not have done any research on this forum or you'd know I research things thoroughly.

If anything I just found more info to solidify my opinion that you think you're better because you live in Nipon and speak Nipponese.

But all I found was pompous talk by a guy who thinks he is going to:


But since I have well over a decades experience practicing martial arts in Japan and am heavily involved in self defense studies, most of what I plan on blogging about here will deal with Japanese history, culture, martial arts and self defense. I do know a little bit of each. And I hope to help correct many of the mistakes I see running around on the internet.



Also according to many people you like to speak of yourself in the 3rd person as well.


You seem to be someone who thinks he is superior to anyone who hasn't studied an art outside US borders, or doesn't speak Japanese, but studies Japanese arts.

Also you claim to have been a soldier.

In what military? Was it US?

What was your MOS then?

and if you dodge the last 2 questions then it's verifiable only that you are full of crap at this point.

MySpace - Don Roley - 42 - Male - Ryugasaki, Ibaraki - myspace.com/423858376




Welcome to IchiNen Dojo.com!




You go ahead and keep playing the boke and I'll keep being the tsukkomi.

i think your jokes are hilarious.

[Darth Roley]

You seem to be someone who thinks he is superior to anyone who hasn't studied an art outside US borders, or doesn't speak Japanese, but studies Japanese arts.

No, I just think myself superior to the idiots that claim to study Japanese martial arts, but can't prove they even had a real teacher. That seems to be my reputation, as a BS buster.

Take a look at the following site,

http://konigunninjers.blogspot.com/

The Konnigun is one of the groups I have confronted over the years. They are not the only one. Of course they think that I do it out of some sort of ego trip, envy or some other reason other than the fact I just hate BS artists.

Also you claim to have been a soldier.

In what military? Was it US?

What was your MOS then?

and if you dodge the last 2 questions then it's verifiable only that you are full of crap at this point.

U.S. Army, 11B. My records are still in my sisters garage three states over, but I can send my DD214 to the owner of this site if he thinks I need to. It will just take a little time. In the meantime, I can provide scans of photos of me they took when I went through Ft Benning and a contact of someone still in the military and still uses a military address for his e-mail that will confirm that he knows I served.

See? It is easy to prove things if the other person is willing to put in a little effort. You expecting everyone I trained under in Japan to speak English is a bit ignorant and a bit arrogant. If you wanted to get a Japanese student studying in America to translate for you, you could have written to some of my other teachers, but now you just seem to be eager to prove to yourself and others that I should not be listened to so that you can continue on thinking what you want to believe.

[Tokyo Kid]

This is why I don't talk about style or lineage. It's only the fight that matters.

Darth, you seem to know what your doing, and you even seem to be aware of your own faults and can laugh at them. Something the guys here could learn from. But from what I've seen and heard of the Bujinkan doesn't amount to much other than hype over the ninja image. That might be a subject for another thread, since this one has devolved into a fake ninja vs. fake samurai debate anyway.

[Darth Roley]

This is why I don't talk about style or lineage. It's only the fight that matters.

I think you are half right. Lineage does not matter, being honest does. Someone who comes up with their own stuff and is honest is a lot better IMO than someone who pretends to be something he is not.

Darth, you seem to know what your doing, and you even seem to be aware of your own faults and can laugh at them. Something the guys here could learn from. But from what I've seen and heard of the Bujinkan doesn't amount to much other than hype over the ninja image. That might be a subject for another thread, since this one has devolved into a fake ninja vs. fake samurai debate anyway.

There are a lot of bozos in the Bujinkan and a lot of people that do the whole ninja assassins of death image to attract students. I irritate them on many boards and in person. The potential of the Bujinkan is much greater than many seem willing to explore.

You are right, it is the subject of another thread.

[kingoftheforest]

You expecting everyone I trained under in Japan to speak English is a bit ignorant and a bit arrogant. If you wanted to get a Japanese student studying in America to translate for you, you could have written to some of my other teachers, but now you just seem to be eager to prove to yourself and others that I should not be listened to so that you can continue on thinking what you want to believe.

I would have no problem corresponding in Japanese with your instructors. I still find it hard to believe non of them speak Japanese.

That's not arrogance. Arrogance is accepting and advertising to students from around the world, and expecting them to take time they could be studying the art, to learn another language.