Virtue of the Sword

[Darth Roley]

You seem to be someone who thinks he is superior to anyone who hasn't studied an art outside US borders, or doesn't speak Japanese, but studies Japanese arts.

No, I just think myself superior to the idiots that claim to study Japanese martial arts, but can't prove they even had a real teacher. That seems to be my reputation, as a BS buster.

Take a look at the following site,

http://konigunninjers.blogspot.com/

The Konnigun is one of the groups I have confronted over the years. They are not the only one. Of course they think that I do it out of some sort of ego trip, envy or some other reason other than the fact I just hate BS artists.

Also you claim to have been a soldier.

In what military? Was it US?

What was your MOS then?

and if you dodge the last 2 questions then it's verifiable only that you are full of crap at this point.

U.S. Army, 11B. My records are still in my sisters garage three states over, but I can send my DD214 to the owner of this site if he thinks I need to. It will just take a little time. In the meantime, I can provide scans of photos of me they took when I went through Ft Benning and a contact of someone still in the military and still uses a military address for his e-mail that will confirm that he knows I served.

See? It is easy to prove things if the other person is willing to put in a little effort. You expecting everyone I trained under in Japan to speak English is a bit ignorant and a bit arrogant. If you wanted to get a Japanese student studying in America to translate for you, you could have written to some of my other teachers, but now you just seem to be eager to prove to yourself and others that I should not be listened to so that you can continue on thinking what you want to believe.

[kingoftheforest]

Oh I looked. You must not have done any research on this forum or you'd know I research things thoroughly.

If anything I just found more info to solidify my opinion that you think you're better because you live in Nipon and speak Nipponese.

But all I found was pompous talk by a guy who thinks he is going to:


But since I have well over a decades experience practicing martial arts in Japan and am heavily involved in self defense studies, most of what I plan on blogging about here will deal with Japanese history, culture, martial arts and self defense. I do know a little bit of each. And I hope to help correct many of the mistakes I see running around on the internet.



Also according to many people you like to speak of yourself in the 3rd person as well.


You seem to be someone who thinks he is superior to anyone who hasn't studied an art outside US borders, or doesn't speak Japanese, but studies Japanese arts.

Also you claim to have been a soldier.

In what military? Was it US?

What was your MOS then?

and if you dodge the last 2 questions then it's verifiable only that you are full of crap at this point.

MySpace - Don Roley - 42 - Male - Ryugasaki, Ibaraki - myspace.com/423858376




Welcome to IchiNen Dojo.com!




You go ahead and keep playing the boke and I'll keep being the tsukkomi.

i think your jokes are hilarious.

[Darth Roley]

Well King, I gave you a chance and I guess you do not want to take it for reasons of your own.

But for anyone else who wishes to confirm what I say you merely have to do a internet search of my name and Bujinkan and you will find many references to me and many posts by me on various forums. You will see how I am treated by folks that live or lived in Japan studying various budo and bujutsu and can probably tell that they treat me as someone who is a fanatic about learning and who took all the chances I could to learn while in Japan.

[Tokyo Kid]

Is one enough? Then the Bujinkan should suffice. There really is no title other than 'shidoshi' that should be translated as teacher. There are plenty of people on- line that know me from there and can confirm what I say so that is the easiest for you to confirm.

I also have grades and/or experience in Kotoeri ryu, Shindo Muso ryu, Suifu ryu, Yagyu Shingan ryu and a few other modern arts in Japan. Getting you in contact with people that you can communicate with without a translator might be a bit more difficult.

Bujinkan? Are you kidding me?

No, that definitely will not suffice.

[kingoftheforest]

It was nice talking to you (I'm being polite). It seems that you are going to continue to twist and turn and hem and haw and say...


"Go find my credentials yourself."

This is a futile effort to allow you to present hard fact and evidence, not


"Well the guys you need to talk to don't have any way of communicating in your language"

or

"The one school I gave you that should have been good enough, kinda sorta teaches katana a little bit."


Your evasiveness and lack of ability to provide info to back up your credentials is enough for me to understand that there aren't any that come close to the person you have a grudge against.

Keep your theory, I myself have experienced enough to prove that theory wrong.

You're just a new incarnation of an old problem.

[Darth Roley]

Bujinkan, is associated maily with ninjitsu, they also teach Samurai Katana?

Actually, they are most famous due to the ninjutsu label being marketed by some folks outside of Japan. The Bujinkan does have Kukishinden ryu, which has katana use as part of its curriculum.

It's an easy copout to say the people who can verify you don't speak English.
I don't know a whole lot of international schools that won't teach you if you don't speak the language, especially one as promeinent as Bujinkan.

I think you misunderstood what I said. The Bujinkan credentials would be the easiest for you to confirm. There are a lot of people on the internet that have seen me and know me from when I was studying in Japan. If you contact a few of them you can confirm what I say. At least one organization I belonged to can correspond in English at the central office, but not the teacher who taught me. Some of the other teachers I learned under do not speak English and are small enough that I do not know if anyone can write in English. If you want to contact them, I can put you in touch but you will have to correspond in Japanese. Since that is perhaps a bit difficult, I thought that the Bujinkan might be the best bet.

Possibly we could see some vids of your use of the Katana. Actions speak louder than words or pieces of paper.

You can wear your ninja gear to hide your identity if that's bothering you.

Ah, but what qualifications do you have to tell good stuff from bad? That is the tack you were taking up to now, wasn't it? Unless I had more credentials in kenjutsu than Williams, I did not have the right to say his stuff was not very Japanese. Now you are saying you just want to see what I do and judge without seeming to have any credentials of your own.

On a more serious note, how are you to tell what would work and what would not work? That is the problem that has faced people in these matters. The big thing people here find impressive about Williams is his ability to cut targets. In kenjutsu, that is like judging a karate student on his street fighting skills based on his board breaking.

Oh, and if you do a google search of "Bujinkan" and "Roley" you will find that I am not concerned about concealing my identity at all. I thought it would be obvious to folks that did even a simple search by using my real last name.

[kingoftheforest]

Is one enough? Then the Bujinkan should suffice. There really is no title other than 'shidoshi' that should be translated as teacher. There are plenty of people on- line that know me from there and can confirm what I say so that is the easiest for you to confirm.

I also have grades and/or experience in Kotoeri ryu, Shindo Muso ryu, Suifu ryu, Yagyu Shingan ryu and a few other modern arts in Japan. Getting you in contact with people that you can communicate with without a translator might be a bit more difficult.

Bujinkan, is associated maily with ninjitsu, they also teach Samurai Katana?

It's an easy copout to say the people who can verify you don't speak English.
I don't know a whole lot of international schools that won't teach you if you don't speak the language, especially one as promeinent as Bujinkan.


Possibly we could see some vids of your use of the Katana. Actions speak louder than words or pieces of paper.

You can wear your ninja gear to hide your identity if that's bothering you.

[Darth Roley]

I'll address the none opinion part of your post.


What school. What title did they give you? Who was the teacher or head of the school?

Is one enough? Then the Bujinkan should suffice. There really is no title other than 'shidoshi' that should be translated as teacher. There are plenty of people on- line that know me from there and can confirm what I say so that is the easiest for you to confirm.

I also have grades and/or experience in Kotoeri ryu, Shindo Muso ryu, Suifu ryu, Yagyu Shingan ryu and a few other modern arts in Japan. Getting you in contact with people that you can communicate with without a translator might be a bit more difficult.

[kingoftheforest]

I happen to have a teaching license from the head of an art that teaches sword in Japan. I have experienced many martial arts while I lived there and read and seen a lot more.

I'll address the none opinion part of your post.


What school. What title did they give you? Who was the teacher or head of the school?

[Darth Roley]

Historians, those are the people who write the books you then read and claim to know about the past more than others, argue on what really went on.

So now you are claiming you know more than people who spend their entire lives studying subjects and writing about them?

Once again you can't possibly know what the Samurai did or didn't do, you can only conjecture out of books.

I might not be the best expert on the subject, but I do have a bit more experience in a kenjutsu dojo than Williams. No one knows for certain what went on, but that does not excuse not making a better effort than he seems to have made.

I ask again, and until you address this question I have nothing further to discuss with you.


What makes you a greater authority on Samurai culture and use of the katana than Williams?


See he has this funny thing backing him up called credentials and an established background.

What's yours?

What exactly are his credentials in kenjutsu that are recognized in Japan? Perhaps you can answer that question.

I happen to have a teaching license from the head of an art that teaches sword in Japan. I have experienced many martial arts while I lived there and read and seen a lot more.

I speak from my experience when I say that what Williams does differs a great deal from what he presents as the tradition he claims he built it on.

[kingoftheforest]

You seem to be missing the point.

It is the fact that Williams is somehow presenting what he does as if it were a continuation of the past that he has built on that causes eyebrows to rise. As I said, he seems to be talking about following in the footsteps of the samurai when he really seems to be imposing what he wants the samurai to be instead of reality.

Historians, those are the people who write the books you then read and claim to know about the past more than others, argue on what really went on.

So now you are claiming you know more than people who spend their entire lives studying subjects and writing about them?

Once again you can't possibly know what the Samurai did or didn't do, you can only conjecture out of books.


I ask again, and until you address this question I have nothing further to discuss with you.


What makes you a greater authority on Samurai culture and use of the katana than Williams?


See he has this funny thing backing him up called credentials and an established background.

What's yours?

[Darth Roley]

I think some one is just a little bit bitter that perhaps he was draw into the whole "You have to expierence the culture first hand to understand it" and now he doesn't want to look silly by himself.

You seem to be missing the point.

If Williams were teaching a way of using a katana, and only that, without the fancy dress and titles and such, then we would not be having this conversation. There is a guy out in San Diego that sells a videotape on how to use the katana while wearing jeans that is not for me, but I don't have a problem with it. The same goes for the guy who runs Cold Steel that has video series on using the katana.

It is the fact that Williams is somehow presenting what he does as if it were a continuation of the past that he has built on that causes eyebrows to rise. As I said, he seems to be talking about following in the footsteps of the samurai when he really seems to be imposing what he wants the samurai to be instead of reality.

It is like I wanted to present myself as an indian shaman based on a mixture of traditions and my own vision of what they were supposed to be. If I just came up with my own stuff and form a group with a name like "mystic visions" without the indian trappings, it would just be another new age group. When I start wearing Apache dress, talking about the brave warriors that went before us in my tradition and chanting in a strange version of Apache that you start giving a wrong impression about what went on before.

And really, as for the content of what he writes with all of his talk about protecting and being willing to fight the good fight, the image that goes through my mind is the guy Dom Deluise turned into from time to time during the movie Cannonball Run. I think his name was Captain Chaos. I can just imagine him being the inspiration for all that was written.

"Look JJ! Two men fighting with knives! I can't let that happen! Da Da Dum!"

When you look at the works of the samurai like the Hagakure, you do not get that type of impression. Parts of the Hagakure have been translated into English, but not the full version AFAIK and certainly not all the commentaries about it that you can find in Japanese. The vision of a warrior you see in works like that is a lot grimmer. One of the most misunderstood quotes from the Hagakure goes like this.

The way of the samurai can be found in death.

Most people seem to think that it meant that the samurai had a death wish. Nothing could be further from the truth. But if doing the right thing meant that they would die, then they were ready to die.

Do you see the difference? It is not a willingness to fight for a good cause, but to die for a good cause.

Most of us that are parents are willing to die for our kids. If someone burst into the mall shooting, I for one would be willing to take a few bullets if it meant my kids got away while I was being shot. That does not make me a warrior in my opinion, that makes me a person worthy of the name "father." I do not elevate myself for being willing to die for my kids, I rather have contempt for anyone who would not die for their kids.

But would I die to stop two guys from having a knife fight? Well, now the situation changes quite a bit looked at in that light does it not? I would be willing to maybe hit one of the idiots (probably fighting over a girl or a bad drug deal) over the head from behind if it was safe. But there is no way I am going to risk my children having to be raised without a father unless I know I am making the world a better place for them.

I do not put my life on the line as part of my job for some greater good. I do not patrol the streets looking for killers, I do not go out on patrol in Iraq and I do not run into buildings about to collapse as a paramedic or firefighter.

I know what I would die for. The problem with the message that Williams puts out that he is only talking about the fighting and not the dying. He is emphasizing one and pretty much ignoring another. Watching out for kids is just part of being a father. Putting your life on the line to save people you don't even know like those firefighters that ran into the towers on 9-11 is a whole different level.

[kingoftheforest]

Well, Williams does make an attempt to wear Japanese dress and use Japanese terms for what he does. He talks about a link to the past, not how to use a sword in modern day combat. He talks about learning from the past and following in their footsteps. So knowing the subject and the reasons things were the way they were is a very important point in that respect.

It is kind of like if I wanted to pass off using a bow and arrow as if it were an ancient Apache method. No one would have trouble if I just taught how to use a bow and arrow as a modern weapon. But I think the Apache would have trouble with the idea that I was representing them, doing things they would not do and basing much of the philosophy I spout off of old Lone Ranger movies.

It's apparent that you have some kind of personal problem with Williams.


There are way too many organizations that respect and back up Williams for you comments to be true.

I think some one is just a little bit bitter that perhaps he was draw into the whole "You have to expierence the culture first hand to understand it" and now he doesn't want to look silly by himself.



I can gurantee one thing that is 100% true. Nobody, including yourself has had first hand expierence with how and what Samurai did when they did it.

Unless you are now going to claim you learned from a 200 year old Samurai.


I've seen Williams credentials, you seem to be ignoring them because they make your argument moot.

Do a little research before you accuse people of not being what they are.

Unless of course you're just looking for an argument.

BTW, where is your school and what organizations back up your critera?

I'd love to compare them to what Willams credentials and criteria are.

Do you have any video to compare to Williams?

[Darth Roley]

I think what we have here is a misunderstanding of concepts.

A sword is a weapon. Are you going to be fighting a battle on a field in ancient Japan? No.

Are you going to walk around in armor carrying your sword at your side all the time like a samurai? No.


Why do you need to know tradition and dress and fancy ceromony to learn how to use a weapon?

Well, Williams does make an attempt to wear Japanese dress and use Japanese terms for what he does. He talks about a link to the past, not how to use a sword in modern day combat. He talks about learning from the past and following in their footsteps. So knowing the subject and the reasons things were the way they were is a very important point in that respect.

It is kind of like if I wanted to pass off using a bow and arrow as if it were an ancient Apache method. No one would have trouble if I just taught how to use a bow and arrow as a modern weapon. But I think the Apache would have trouble with the idea that I was representing them, doing things they would not do and basing much of the philosophy I spout off of old Lone Ranger movies.

[kingoftheforest]

Theatrics and fighting have nothing in common.

I think what we have here is a misunderstanding of concepts.

A sword is a weapon. Are you going to be fighting a battle on a field in ancient Japan? No.

Are you going to walk around in armor carrying your sword at your side all the time like a samurai? No.


Why do you need to know tradition and dress and fancy ceromony to learn how to use a weapon?

You don't.

Do I need to do a book report on Jack Dempsey to learn to box?

No.

You are confusing history class with learning how to use a sword.

I practice certain forms of Kung-Fu. I don't speak chinese have never lived in China, and I don't wear period clothes when I train.

Why?

Because what language I speak, and what I wear has nothing to do with the skills I am training.

Once again your theory doesn't wash with the reality of any Martial Art.


Trying to equate history class and historical dance to be the same thing as learning how to use a weapon is just plain floundering.

Quite frankly it's starting to get embarrasing watching you grasp at the last few straws on this conversation.


I've made all the points I need to make here.

Good Day.

KOTF