Virtue of the Sword

[TTEscrima]

You are saying that people who want to learn Japanese Sword, have to first learn the language and live in Japan?

I may be wrong but I'm reading a little narrow mindedness here.

Remind you of anyone? That was essentially Jubaj's entire dance routine. Since Boar nor anyone else here had lived in China nor spoke Chinese, Jubaji automatically felt that made him superior.LOL.

Once again for the slow ones, that's an argument based in fantasy and culture worship, one need look no further than Guro Dan Inosanto to see that it makes no difference. In fact last times Jubs tried this line it was pointed out if anything all the cultural BS usually interferes with the learning process, it does not enhance martial ability.

Jubs is banned and we have a new Asiaphile pop right up.

This incarnation goes where his predecessor spent the majority of his time... on ignore.

IF and when Darth Ninja puts up a video of his amazing sword skills someone pm to let me know...otherwise I've read enough of his BS and I'm tired of this act.

[Darth Roley]

Once again for the slow ones, that's an argument based in fantasy and culture worship, one need look no further than Guro Dan Inosanto to see that it makes no difference. In fact last times Jubs tried this line it was pointed out if anything all the cultural BS usually interferes with the learning process, it does not enhance martial ability.

You seem to have missed my response about this, or you were not able to understand it. You might want to try reading it again.

The whole idea that knowing the culture interferes with the learning process seems pretty silly to me. If you want to know how the sword was used in ancient Japan so that you can link with older traditions instead of just playing with a over-sized ginzu knife, you better make sure you know what actually went on and why people did what they did.

And as I said, so much of what people think is not factual and based more on a romantic version than reality.

[kingoftheforest]

The whole idea that knowing the culture interferes with the learning process seems pretty silly to me. If you want to know how the sword was used in ancient Japan so that you can link with older traditions instead of just playing with a over-sized ginzu knife, you better make sure you know what actually went on and why people did what they did.

I want to just clarify that what you are saying is:

If you don't speak the language and live in the country, you can't possibly learn -insert martial skill-?

Because as TTE pointed out Dan Inosanto didn't grow up or spend if any, an extended time in the PI.

He learned in America.

So that's a pretty good case against your theory. Which is all it is, just a theory.

[Darth Roley]

If you don't speak the language and live in the country, you can't possibly learn -insert martial skill-?

Not really. I am talking about Japanese swordsmanship because of the lack of qualified teachers and common misconceptions. Maybe you could learn from some of the teachers that have lived in Japan enough to do it if you went to them every week for years of training. So far, no one seems to have done that. Maybe in the next ten or 20 years.

Insanto did not learn in PI, but he did go every week to a teacher that had. It is not like he had many misconceptions about arnis and he did not spend only a short time before he came up with his own version of it.

[Sagacious Lu]

If you had anything to share aside from insults and badgering I might keep you around...

Sadly it's long over due.

It's been fun Ju...

See you around.

You just banned one of the few people on here that keeps it real. If you've been paying attention you can find plenty of times that he's contributed, and frankly he doesn't "badger" anyone that doesn't have it coming. Thanks for giving the ass-holes free-rein to spread their bullshit. Go ahead and ban me too if you like, then TTEscrima, Uke and the like can finish turning this place into an intellectual circle-jerk.

[kingoftheforest]

You just banned one of the few people on here that keeps it real. If you've been paying attention you can find plenty of times that he's contributed, and frankly he doesn't "badger" anyone that doesn't have it coming. Thanks for giving the ass-holes free-rein to spread their bullshit. Go ahead and ban me too if you like, then TTEscrima, Uke and the like can finish turning this place into an intellectual circle-jerk.

Funny thing is the people who you claim are full of shit, have been verified. Tant has seen vid of Boar and his students.

Tant is the member of a site where LEO's and Military give much respect to Boar and his students.

The person you claim who is "keeping it real", has provided nothing but talk.

When asked for credentials, or some form of proof that he was more than a keyboard warrior, he balked and made jokes and smartass comments.

If that's "keeping it real", than the concept is bullshit.


He ran his mouth in forums and threads he had no expierence or ideas about, and a majority of his posts where homosexual comments about Boar and his students hair style.

Which seemed to be the only "style" he knew anything about.

He gave no technical knowledge except to point out how a person standing and a pencil on a table follow the same physics when hit.

Which proved in itself his lack of understanding.


Yeah he was "keeping it real" alright.



Here's one for old times sake.



.........

[Tant01]

I like Ju

You just banned one of the few people on here that keeps it real. If you've been paying attention you can find plenty of times that he's contributed, and frankly he doesn't "badger" anyone that doesn't have it coming. Thanks for giving the ass-holes free-rein to spread their bullshit. Go ahead and ban me too if you like, then TTEscrima, Uke and the like can finish turning this place into an intellectual circle-jerk.

He was one of my favorite characters here.

Thread after thread after thread after thread sinking into a maelstrom of insults has gone on long enough.

I have a feeling he'll be back and maybe a fresh start is just what he needs?

[kingoftheforest]

Gonna have to change his name to Teflon huh?

[Tom Yum]

Maybe a few Japanese swordmakers let him sell their stuff. That does not mean they consider him a decent swordman. Walk into a typical sword store or antique store in Japan and you are lucky to find someone who studies the art at all behind the counter. I think only about a third of the people that make swords in Japan have any experience with traditional sword arts. So with that being the case, why would anyone think that because Williams sells swords it means he is a great swordsman?

Listen, instead of your typical attacks try to tell me how swinging around a piece of sharpened metal makes you anymore of a better person than someone who studies the tea ceremony or Scottish Dance. I have studied sword and I can tell you it does not make you a warrior. If you want to be a warrior, you need to choose a job that risks getting your tender pink butt shot off in the service of a higher cause.

I respect the guys that work all night on the street so that I can sleep safely in my bed. I respect the guys that are serving in Afghanistan and Iraq and call them warriors. But going to a martial arts studio a few times a week does not make you a warrior and those that talk most about being one impress me the least.

TTE posted the man's warrior qualifications, lineage, experience and clientele type and you ignore it as if you're the ultimate authority.

You've got a good argument, but you're unfamiliar with your audience...

[Darth Roley]

TTE posted the man's warrior qualifications, lineage, experience and clientele type and you ignore it as if you're the ultimate authority.

You've got a good argument, but you're unfamiliar with your audience...

The subject does not seem to be about how Williams can market himself, but with his link to warrior traditions.

There seems to be a jump from one argument to another as it suits those that pursue it.

Are we to learn from the past and study that which went before us in order to learn not just the surface aspects, but to eat the meat from the bones, break them open and suck the marrow? In short are we to understand everything to know if we are following in the footsteps of those that have learned things by paying in blood or are we to just going to apply our own preconceptions and assume that it confirms what we want it to say?

If Williams wants to build his qualifications on his links to "classical" Japanese arts and throw around his link to the samurai, then he should have more to show than he does.

Do you think that people go around cutting around folks with swords on the street and thus his form of swordsmanship is worth learning about? Do you consider his Nami ryu a combat art? Then his actual use of the sword against another person should be looked at, instead of his ability to break boards or cut tatami.

If you think that we should learn about the past in order to gain lessons from it, should we not look to his link to the past in the form of people in Japan that say he knows enough to teach the traditions others have payed in blood to learn?

So which has Williams proven himself as? Has he killed someone with a sword or has he shown a link to the lessons of people that have had to face a sword and killed the other person?

[kingoftheforest]

The subject does not seem to be about how Williams can market himself, but with his link to warrior traditions.

There seems to be a jump from one argument to another as it suits those that pursue it.

Are we to learn from the past and study that which went before us in order to learn not just the surface aspects, but to eat the meat from the bones, break them open and suck the marrow? In short are we to understand everything to know if we are following in the footsteps of those that have learned things by paying in blood or are we to just going to apply our own preconceptions and assume that it confirms what we want it to say?

So instead of learning about American history from a book, we should all have to fight in a revolutionary and civil war?

African Americans who want to understand their roots and past should have to live as slaves to understand the cultural aspects of their history?


Do the Japanese born after 1945 need to watch another city nuked to understand that part of their history?


Other people have lived and survived history so we can learn from it and their mistakes. Not so we can go back and relive those mistakes over and over again.

Your theory has huge holes in the logic sequence.

[Darth Roley]

So instead of learning about American history from a book, we should all have to fight in a revolutionary and civil war?

In this case, since we are talking about physical movements and a link to tradition, a better analogy might go like the following.

Do you think people should learn about Native American culture from someone who watched Dances With Wolves and decided to come up with his own Native American traditional dance, way of living etc or actually go to the Arapahoe and other native tribes? The guy might be a great bowhunter, dancer and camper....but do you really think we should be trying to pull lesson from the past and look for a link to a tradition from him?

[kingoftheforest]

Theatrics and fighting have nothing in common.

I think what we have here is a misunderstanding of concepts.

A sword is a weapon. Are you going to be fighting a battle on a field in ancient Japan? No.

Are you going to walk around in armor carrying your sword at your side all the time like a samurai? No.


Why do you need to know tradition and dress and fancy ceromony to learn how to use a weapon?

You don't.

Do I need to do a book report on Jack Dempsey to learn to box?

No.

You are confusing history class with learning how to use a sword.

I practice certain forms of Kung-Fu. I don't speak chinese have never lived in China, and I don't wear period clothes when I train.

Why?

Because what language I speak, and what I wear has nothing to do with the skills I am training.

Once again your theory doesn't wash with the reality of any Martial Art.


Trying to equate history class and historical dance to be the same thing as learning how to use a weapon is just plain floundering.

Quite frankly it's starting to get embarrasing watching you grasp at the last few straws on this conversation.


I've made all the points I need to make here.

Good Day.

KOTF

[Darth Roley]

I think what we have here is a misunderstanding of concepts.

A sword is a weapon. Are you going to be fighting a battle on a field in ancient Japan? No.

Are you going to walk around in armor carrying your sword at your side all the time like a samurai? No.


Why do you need to know tradition and dress and fancy ceromony to learn how to use a weapon?

Well, Williams does make an attempt to wear Japanese dress and use Japanese terms for what he does. He talks about a link to the past, not how to use a sword in modern day combat. He talks about learning from the past and following in their footsteps. So knowing the subject and the reasons things were the way they were is a very important point in that respect.

It is kind of like if I wanted to pass off using a bow and arrow as if it were an ancient Apache method. No one would have trouble if I just taught how to use a bow and arrow as a modern weapon. But I think the Apache would have trouble with the idea that I was representing them, doing things they would not do and basing much of the philosophy I spout off of old Lone Ranger movies.

[kingoftheforest]

Well, Williams does make an attempt to wear Japanese dress and use Japanese terms for what he does. He talks about a link to the past, not how to use a sword in modern day combat. He talks about learning from the past and following in their footsteps. So knowing the subject and the reasons things were the way they were is a very important point in that respect.

It is kind of like if I wanted to pass off using a bow and arrow as if it were an ancient Apache method. No one would have trouble if I just taught how to use a bow and arrow as a modern weapon. But I think the Apache would have trouble with the idea that I was representing them, doing things they would not do and basing much of the philosophy I spout off of old Lone Ranger movies.

It's apparent that you have some kind of personal problem with Williams.


There are way too many organizations that respect and back up Williams for you comments to be true.

I think some one is just a little bit bitter that perhaps he was draw into the whole "You have to expierence the culture first hand to understand it" and now he doesn't want to look silly by himself.



I can gurantee one thing that is 100% true. Nobody, including yourself has had first hand expierence with how and what Samurai did when they did it.

Unless you are now going to claim you learned from a 200 year old Samurai.


I've seen Williams credentials, you seem to be ignoring them because they make your argument moot.

Do a little research before you accuse people of not being what they are.

Unless of course you're just looking for an argument.

BTW, where is your school and what organizations back up your critera?

I'd love to compare them to what Willams credentials and criteria are.

Do you have any video to compare to Williams?