What's the difference between SD and Women's SD?

[jamesBavbedari]

I personally think the perfect teacher for self-defense classes is a combination of a man and a woman. Both need to impart their knowledge, their skill, and their experiences. Men can really help us learn how men think, how they will act, and react. Women understand how other women think and feel. They can demonstrate to them that this will work for them thus imparting the confidence that women need to have in their own skills and training.

right, here you need to learn to understand the psyche of both sexes, because the cases when a woman attacks a woman are much lower than when a man attacks a woman

[cedak]

I personally think the perfect teacher for self-defense classes is a combination of a man and a woman. Both need to impart their knowledge, their skill, and their experiences. Men can really help us learn how men think, how they will act, and react. Women understand how other women think and feel. They can demonstrate to them that this will work for them thus imparting the confidence that women need to have in their own skills and training.

[sunstar]

old thread - some of the earlier posts have some useful info/perspectives but...

just some facts about the assault/rape most of us (over 90%)
face - in reality:

not strangers
not 'in the street'
not sudden, overwhelming blitz attacks
not random
often with strategic, purposeful, even fraudulent use of alcohol by the assailant

not strangers
not strangers
not strangers

just a thought.
Before deciding to 'teach SD4 women', spend at least as much time learning about what we face - in reality - as you spend learning martial arts, systems, combatives, etc.

Or if you can't or won't, spend at least 2-3 years working in a battered womens program, doing direct work with survivors in a sexual assault program, work with molested girls (and boys too).

Spend your time listening, not talking.
Learn real cases/situations.

(one small example out of much more) Learn what 'grooming behavior' means and how perps use it strategically. and then figure out detection and 25 different ways women/girls can respond/stop it - and 12 activities for different age groups for teaching and practice.

Learn and understand why most assaults, rapes, molestation are never reported to LE - or even revealed to anyone.

when there's little (or nothing) that puzzells you about the women and girls in your classes - or the ones you try to talk about SD with(without much success) ... you're closer to being ready to teach.

when you get it-when nothing about their responses confuses or irritates you - and when you have successfully figured out (from them) how to help them shift those attitudes and change their choices and behavior,
you'll be able to start putting a class together.

not till then.

[peppi]

Women sometimes can not imagine the brutality of a real assault.
So before any self-defense techniques the teaching should be focused on changing their way of thinking towards combat.

[polegirl]

IOM Combat and sikal you have both summed it up really well. I have had many conversations with my female friends about SD and what often comes up is the issue of "I don't want to fight and I don't want to be aggressive". It is a cultural issue in that women are taught to be nice and to walk into a dojo and fight men is not something most women are comfortable with. Women are also taught to ignore their instincts. Women's SD classes allow women to be in a comfortable situation and learn at least enough to defend themselves. Also part of women's SD is to teach women that it is okay to listen to their instincts. It has been proven that when women don't listen to their instincts generally they end up getting attacked (I thought there was something weird about the guy but I got in the lift. I did not want to be rude. Yes this has happened!!!!). It has been proven that attackers are generally surprised when women fight back and that women stand a greater chance of getting away unharmed if they fight back even in a small way (even stop don't do that will work - it does not have to get physical, also a lot of women's SD teaches how to stop it getting physical). I know some people have expressed the opinion that it is basically just a way to make more money but in my experience (and that of my friends) it is a great way for women to learn to listen to their instincts, know it is okay to defend yourself and have enough confidence to defend yourself (not in a cool Charlie's Angels way) so that you can get away from your attacker.

[IOM Combat]

Howdy All,
I haven't been teaching long but when I started I found I was being asked specifically to do womens sd. Most of the women who came to me said this was, at least in part, because they felt more comfortable training in an all female group. I find it tends to be an easier way for them to get into it all without the intimidation which comes from a large group of blokes. After a while and when they have gained some confidence most of them tend to come along to the mixed classes.
The actual self-defence classes though tend to be little different, with the main change occuring the the verbal approach and body language of the attacker.

Cheers
Dan

[sikal]

sikal, i love your posts. very well thought out.

Thank you. I do my best

Mike

[EmptyneSs]

the difference is that most womens sd classes are just scams to make money off of scared women.

[litegod]

sikal, i love your posts. very well thought out.

in any contact with ladies(family, friends,co-workers etc) that seem very hesitant about taking any form of self defense, i have a tendancy to be tender but use brutal realism with them.

the main thing i tell them is this" if you are grabbed by somebody and they try to take you away in a car, you fight, you kick, you scream, you bite, you scratch you do anything you can, because if they can take you away from there it is all over, they are taking you away from your husband,boyfriend, family, kids, your dog. you must use every bit of force in your body to make it not happen.PERIOD!!"


when i help teach self defense it is the same methods for both sexes.where i teach though it is primarily ladies and kids but the odd man does show up and goes through the exact same scenarios as the ladies.
as far as i am concerned there should be no difference in teaching men and women. survival is non-discriminary, it cares not if you are an innie or an outtie. the same steps aretaken to ensure yougo home that night. police go through the same steps, military goes through the same steps.

[bbbb]

hi-i

Just wondering.

As a man, we're taught(we do have ladies in our kung fu school/academy) to use attack. this doesn't mean to go out and attack people- but if someone attack's you, then you surprise them by attacking yourself.

the idea is that no one can use their planned attack whilst running backward's.

My question is do your method's include pushing the attacker backward's: backward's and then forward's is cool?

"Use attack as your indestructable spiritual strength".

It's regarding momentum and not being crushed by it-so we use attack.

...Which is what you girl's are already doing so..don't worry about me

[Yinboxer]

Thanks.

I love your quote of "To show mercy to your opponent is to show cruelty to yourself." That's good.

Mike

I'm not sure where it came from, but it is one of my favorites!

Sometimes, women just need a little encouragement. If you would have told me 6 years ago that I would be into training 6 to 10 hours a day and carrying a knife (weapons are great equalizers) I would have said you were nuts! Now, I think training is the most fun you can have. Now I'd rather train than go to a movie, amusement park, dancing, etc.

[sikal]

Thank you, sikal, for one of the most intelligent posts I have seen in this forum (I am new here, but have been lurking a while).

Thanks.

Women's self defense classes should not be the only SD class you take. You cannot learn to defend against a male attacker without training with some men. However, Women's SD is important. Some women aren't comfortable having men in a class, especially if they have been attacked by one. Some just don't understand their potential yet. A purely women's SD course could open the door to further training.

Ladies, if you were taking self defense hoping you could go out and beat up men, you are outta luck. However, you can learn to defend yourself. sikal is right here, however, you have to be brutal. I have heard from many women, "I don't want to hurt anybody...Isn't there something where I can throw him and get away?" This is pure fantasy. Personally, I have never grasped this mindset--someone is trying to rape you or drag you off to his basement for his "collection" or something, and you want to be NICE?!? There is an old saying in the martial arts: "To show mercy to your opponent is to show cruelty to yourself." Have no mercy, don't fight fair, and like sikal said, don't stop until you are out of danger. Don't believe that you are good enough to just "get out of the way." What about his buddies waiting in the bushes?

Unfortunately, I've often talked to women about SD issues who shy away from that whole concept. I think it goes back to the cultural issue that I mentioned. But that's the one of the biggest problems I've encountered when dealing with women in training. How to get them past that ingrained reticence toward violence?

I love your quote of "To show mercy to your opponent is to show cruelty to yourself." That's good.

Mike

[areusafe]

HiYa Group,

Men and Women are taught the Progressive Minimum Force Concept:

Avoidance/Escape
Evasion/Escape
Defusion/Escape
Defensive Tactics/Escape

[Yinboxer]

Some aspects of SD are universal - such as awareness, avoidance, etc.

Speaking in *very* broad generalizations here that are by no means universal, just tendencies of the culture that I deal with here in America - it might be different in other parts of the world. Women are usually targeted by guys. The average guy is bigger, heavier, and stronger than the average woman. Most guys have some experience with fighting and violence - to one degree or another, it's part of growing up for most guys. Women tend to have experienced less in the way of physical violence and more in the way of emotional/mental trauma in growing up. Consequently, men tend to be better prepared for a physically violent confrontation. And that's not even bringing into the the whole cultural taboo of "ladies don't fight."

So a women's SD course should address some of these issues. It should be more geared toward getting the women to overcome their habitual (through years of cultural training and experience) reluctance toward physical violence. Also, the point needs to be stressed that their attacker is likely to be bigger, heavier, stronger and with more fighting experience. So the course should stress what the women have in their favor - agility, surprise (most guys don't expect a serious fight from a woman), and, most importantly, self-preservation motivation.

Men and women pretty much get attacked for the same concepts. The attacker either wants money or wants to cause injury - maybe for some perceived slight or maybe just because. The difference between the two, though, lies in the details of the injury intended. Taking a beating is no picnic - but it's much easier to cope with (from an emotional/mental standpoint) than rape and that's what women are usually faced with when the attacker intends injury.

From this standpoint, stakes are higher for a woman. This needs to be stressed to women in a women's SD course. They need to understand that with stakes that high, they have no room for mercy. A man might have the option, depending on the situation, of subduing his attacker. A woman, generally, doesn't have that option. She has to inflict as much damage as possible and leave - all in as little time as possible.

Of course, this general rule of thumb is true for both men and women on a conceptual level. But, again, the devil is in the details. Women have to understand that if they're attacked, they need to be ready and willing to pull out all the stops and not stop until they're safely out of danger.

At least, that's my take on the differences between general SD and women's SD.

Mike

Thank you, sikal, for one of the most intelligent posts I have seen in this forum (I am new here, but have been lurking a while).

Women's self defense classes should not be the only SD class you take. You cannot learn to defend against a male attacker without training with some men. However, Women's SD is important. Some women aren't comfortable having men in a class, especially if they have been attacked by one. Some just don't understand their potential yet. A purely women's SD course could open the door to further training.

Ladies, if you were taking self defense hoping you could go out and beat up men, you are outta luck. However, you can learn to defend yourself. sikal is right here, however, you have to be brutal. I have heard from many women, "I don't want to hurt anybody...Isn't there something where I can throw him and get away?" This is pure fantasy. Personally, I have never grasped this mindset--someone is trying to rape you or drag you off to his basement for his "collection" or something, and you want to be NICE?!? There is an old saying in the martial arts: "To show mercy to your opponent is to show cruelty to yourself." Have no mercy, don't fight fair, and like sikal said, don't stop until you are out of danger. Don't believe that you are good enough to just "get out of the way." What about his buddies waiting in the bushes?

[mrniceguy148]

There should be no difference between self-defense for men or woman, but in reality mens s/d is geared to being able to beat an opponent while woman's s/d should be geared to avoiding the attack, preferably by avoiding being in a situation where you can be attacked or even in danger, which means a major part of the training will be mental, or stopping the attack and giving yourself enough time to get out of danger. men SHOULD train with the same goals, but mens ego, macho/stupid causes men to train fight, not self-defense.

Hi jukado,

You're right on here! Good call!