the meaning of a kata

[Dutten's angel]

It's hard to explain what is a kata for someone who doesn't want to know the meaning..I mean someone who really want to drive you mad tryin explain ..
But I've found the best way to get rid of people of that kind.. I've read in a Shotokan magazain:
"How many times have your learned you kata, but had no idea what offensive themes its defensive principles actually addressed,or,that such themes even existed? It's a common problem that's been compared to learning a song in a forign language. Melodic, but if you can't speak the language, the meaning of the song's words remins a total mystry!
When you learn a kata without knowing about its inner workings, you might as well be dancing!


[Edited by Dutten's angel on 01-24-2001 at 06:13 AM]

[Kentao5]

The body moves only so many ways. Your hand/foot goes up,down,in, out,in a circle,& straight. Kata interpretations for those moves are diverse depending on the concept and context they're used. The problem I've run into, is most Arts zero in one 1 defination/concept. If it's a block/strike art then thay say that's what it has to be!! If it's a grappling art then it has to be a grappling application and so on and so on it goes. I feel the important thing is that the mechanics involved are essential in making any of the moves work. It's just a matter of finding as many different applications/concepts as possible while maintaining good body mechanics.
Later, KenTao5

[Pintufa]

A kata is as useful as a poomsay hehehe

[Sean J]

Although you are definitely right, that is really a silly remark

[FightingSkills]

Kata ha sNO use in Personal Combat ....

Most clasical martial arts not only have no value for Street Combat Training. In fact, their counter intuitive training practices do more harm than good.

Kata, while an enjoyable past time has NO VALUE in combat training.

Joe

https://www.StopRape.com

https://www.FightingSkills.com

https://www.WMAC.com

[Sean J]

But he is still right. There is no way you one can argue against it.

Sean J

[rooke]

The value of Kata

Left jab, left jab, cross... Doing this on a bag repeatedly is an ideal combination for most boxing practitioners. That's a form.

Tying a rope across the room and doing slips under it, and countering with a jab...that's a form.

The only difference between this, is boxing adds sparring. Doing kata does NOT exclude sparring. And while boxing's punching techniques are very effective, they are limited. Kata has punching, pressure point knowledge, and grappling. With kata, you do not necessarily fight in that stance. Funokoshi said that.

The idea of kata as a dead form is only true if the practitioner doesn't envision his/her opponent. A kata is a playbook with various possibilities that teach certain body mechanics and physics. Its just as valid as working out on a heavy bag or speed bag.

Now the idea of traditional arts as being worthless...I guess that depends on the idea of worthless. If you consider that these traditional arts were used in battle (hsing-i for instance) by guards and armed men to fight to the death... If you consider that daito-ryu aikijujitsu was used by samurai's on the battlefield, in armor and swords to attack an opponent...then it gives a new perspective on why certain things were stressed (ie: not grappling on a battlefield with armed adversaries). Most modern systems were NOT battlefield tested. Before I have to answer "Oh yeah, I have to worry about an armed sword attack", the principles are the same against a larger opponent with a bat or a pool stick. The angulation to "cut the line" and then attack the weak points (joints for instance...which were always weak in armor to allow the person to have mobility).

Its just a philosophical thing. Those who feel traditional arts are meaningless follow one path. I tend to disagree (having been involved in martial arts for 10 years, the first few of which were with Muay Thai, JKD, and Escrima). I'm not saying Modern Arts are worthless. Just that they both have their place, they can both be used effectively for street combat, etc. Its the way you train, and how much you invest in what you know.

Regards,
Rooke

[crazyjoe380]

Karate

Always

Took

Ass kickings..

In pride and in the Ufc..


Take Muay Thai..



END TRANSMISSION

[holte2]

dont waste your time with karate...unless Mr Miagi is your teacher

[Budoguy]

Fighting Skills

Kata is worthless for fighting? Like you would last 2 minutes against Funakoshi, Migagi Chojun, Itosu or any Okinawan soldier?

You sound like someone who learned a few tricks and then with strong pride, presumes you are the first to have discovered them. If you think kata is worthless, you know nothing of kata.

Preposterous. Absolutely preposterous.

[Budoguy]

BTW

My qualifications, self defense instructor for women and gay-bashing. Honesly FightingSkills, you got it all wrong. We use this stuff all the time and it works.

[ryanhall]

We use this stuff all the time and it works.

no comment.

[aseepish]

value of kata

Originally posted by Budoguy
Fighting Skills

Kata is worthless for fighting? Like you would last 2 minutes against Funakoshi, Migagi Chojun, Itosu or any Okinawan soldier?

Any Okinawan soldier? Let's take a peek at history, shall we?
The battle of Okinawa was from April to June 1945: Casualties totaled more than 38,000 Americans wounded and 12,000 killed or missing, more than 107,000 Japanese and Okinawan conscripts killed, and perhaps 100,000 Okinawan civilians who perished in the battle.

So much for the Okinawan soldiers.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/okinawa-battle.htm

The value of kata is to correct stance, movement, and body positioning for your style, and as a traditional aspect of the style. Yes there are benefits to one's coordination, strength, and stamina, but there are more efficient ways of developing these attributes.

Fighting ability comes from drilling and sparring.

Many street effective arts have forms - Wing Chun, and Silat for example. But meat of these arts (or "fruit" in the case of silat) is in the drills. You fight the way you train.

["Real"PDShaolin]

Kata is basically WORTHLESS from the viewpoint of combat and self defense skill.

Kata is the practice of unworkable technique while rooted in unrealistic stances performing blocking methods that will never work.

Hitting a bag is NOT a form. ANYTHING is a form from your viewpoint, so I'll make it perfectly clear:

Kata, when performed as a series of defensive blocks and counters against imaginary opponents is completely worthless for combat or self defense.

There is nothing you can gain from practicing kata that you canno gain TWOFOLD in practice of another kind.

Pad work ALONE works REALISTIC technique on an ACTUAL TARGET while utilizing good footwork much the same way you would in reality. Actual targets build power, focus, timing, distance, speed and accuracy.

I want to hear someone name ONE THINg kata can give you that you can't get in practice of another kind.

http://www.mcdojo.com/article_read.asp?id=45

Thats all you need to know about kata.

[Budoguy]

Bullshit. You don't know anything about kata or karate. Blah, blah, blah. Waste of time responding, but I did. Cya.