Womens self defense, or MMA grappling?

[kingoftheforest]

I agree that disarms are a litle crazy to try against a gun or a knife, but as you and jubaji have both stated sometimes you only have certain options in certain situations.

Mind you a gun only has 1 angle of attack, out that hole in the front.

If your close enough to try a disarm, you are close enough to avoid that little hole and knock the shit out of the guy with the gun.

Of course if you get a chance to see it. (See Sparrow Assassin)


YouTube - Sparrow Hitman Teddy Medina (1980s)

[Sagacious Lu]

I agree that disarms are a litle crazy to try against a gun or a knife, but as you and jubaji have both stated sometimes you only have certain options in certain situations.

Mind you a gun only has 1 angle of attack, out that hole in the front.

If your close enough to try a disarm, you are close enough to avoid that little hole and knock the shit out of the guy with the gun.

Of course if you get a chance to see it. (See Sparrow Assassin)


YouTube - Sparrow Hitman Teddy Medina (1980s)

I'll go along with that if you really have no other choice but it's still a losing proposition.

[TigerClaw]

TigerClaw's assertion that "a good kung fu fighter should be able to disarm him before he gets a shot off" is bullshit plain and simple. I've seen gun disarms and they're very nifty in the classroom with a toy gun but they should never be attempted unless you're willing to give your life... which is probably what will happen if you do try them in the real world. For the most part I think they do more harm than good because they give some impressionable people a false sense of security that is more likely to get them killed than it is to save their life.

Wrong again. First of all the techniques that I talk about you have no idea what I am talking about so your words, "Probably", or "I think", "more likely", are al; speculative words and show no real understanding of what I am talking about. You have not seen exactly what I am talking about from me.

Secondly, I would not suggest trying to take the gun off the attacker unless you had no other choice, life and death. or unless you are a very proficient Kung Fu fighter and you see an opportunity. But yes, this is always a very dangerous situation.. The range of the attacker and how he handles the gun is very important. But if you had a gun, lets say a BB gun for practice purposes and you held it within range at my chest and you hadn't shot me yet I believe I could get the gun off you 9 tikes out of ten and stop you from shooting me. What I teach (as kung Fu instructor of many years and having credentials and lineage and many different instructors over the years and having been involved in different styles of Kung Fu), is based on the principle of "reaction time of the brain".

Try this at home. take a piece of paper have someone hold it between your fingers and stretch your arm out with your fingers apart about two inches then have the other person put the paper between your fingers and tell him to let go of the paper when he wants to, and try to squeeze your fingers to catch the paper. You will find that many times you will not be able to catch the paper when he lets go. This is because the brains reaction time is not fast enough to see the paper drop and then send the signal to the brain and back to the hand agains to catch it. This same principle works with a gun in close range. But again, don't try this unless you have proper instruction. Also there is different techniques that are used as well to disarm the attacker.

[Sagacious Lu]

LOLOLOL @ "reaction time of the Brian" :-P

[jubaji]

When will this troll go away?

[Sagacious Lu]

Hopefully sooner rather than later.

[Uke]

...in the dojo/club/dojang/kwoon/etc.

And you'd know this because...................?

Anything can work after you've softened a man up, and its no wonder that a couple of you don't know that.

The priceless part about all this is reading what the forum member who is thee most oblivious to technique and concept write about what won't work "just because".

The professor could cripple you with a finger lock, but if you want to actually learn something go scuttle along and look up Wally Jay. He was a very close friend to my teacher and his influence impacted the our knowledge.

Maybe with some willingness you can learn something too.

[kingoftheforest]

LOLOLOL @ "reaction time of the Brian" :-P

Hey he's fast.

[TTEscrima]

You've completely missed my point. What I'm saying is that there is no good way to fight a gun unarmed. You might think you have an idea that sucks slightly less than any of the other options but no matter what you do if the other guy has a gun and wants to shoot you you're probably going to get shot.

If you do nothing you're certainly going to get shot if that's the intent of the BG. Curling up under your desk or huddling in a corner begging for your life are piss poor options with a much lower chance of saving your life than fighting back. Yes its a very bad situation but if you have a "I'm dead" attitude before it starts like you seem to have, then you're right, you're dead.

Guns and knives can be taken from an attacker, and it happens more than some people want to admit because then they wouldn't have an excuse for not training for it.

Is it a deadly proposition and a shitty place to find yourself? Damn straight, but its far better than being the guy who believes it can't be done and just does nothing or relies on the lowest percentage techniques possible.

TigerClaw's assertion that "a good kung fu fighter should be able to disarm him before he gets a shot off" is bullshit plain and simple.

We've already established that TC is full of shit and is thus on ignore with the rest of the trolls and time wasters who add zero substance to the forum and I wasn't addressing his comments, I was addressing yours.

I've seen gun disarms and they're very nifty in the classroom with a toy gun but they should never be attempted unless you're willing to give your life... which is probably what will happen if you do try them in the real world. For the most part I think they do more harm than good because they give some impressionable people a false sense of security that is more likely to get them killed than it is to save their life.

So we come full circle to your assertion that the gun disarms being taught will get you killed, is that more dead than if you do nothing? I'd say those disarms are more likely to work than begging, boxing, kicking, flying armbars, running, or suplexing wouldn't you? NOTHING works if you don't practice it realistically, nor will it work if you don't have the confidence in the technique, your training and yourself to make it work.

Of course death is the probable outcome of a failed disarm, but death is also the result of doing nothing while they pull the weapon and use it on you. Ask anyone whose been in the line of fire, doing ANYTHING is better than doing nothing, and yet you're clearly from the "it's useless to resist" club so that if it ever does occur you'll have only your excuses and beliefs you were already dead to comfort yourself while you bleed out, good luck with that.

[Sagacious Lu]

OMGOMGOMGOMGOMG....

If you take a closer look I just agreed with KOTF; if I'm going to risk my life on a desperate technique I'd rather land the hardest shot I can than rely on a fancy trick-disarm. It's not about fatalism, it's about Keeping It Simple... finish the old saw for yourself.

[TTEscrima]

If you take a closer look I just agreed with KOTF; if I'm going to risk my life on a desperate technique I'd rather land the hardest shot I can than rely on a fancy trick-disarm. It's not about fatalism, it's about Keeping It Simple... finish the old saw for yourself.

Well I see you've joined the alter peoples posts then quote them club so that tells me where your mentality is, so I'll keep my reply simple.

You actually said this:

I'll go along with that if you really have no other choice but it's still a losing proposition.

I bolded your evident lack of confidence in yourself, your training and the systems you continue to defend. It's your life, you know what its worth so you know how much effort you think its worth to defend. It's clear you have so little confidence in yourself and the training you've received that your mind's already made you're going to die if you're faced with an actual SD situation. That's your issue not mine.

[Sagacious Lu]

Wow, you just jumped to a number of astonishing conclusions. Have fun with your fantasies of beating up gunmen with your bare hands

[Tant01]

Wow, you just jumped to a number of astonishing conclusions. Have fun with your fantasies of beating up gunmen with your bare hands

Actually (without applying traits to floks I don't know) he has a good point.

There is a certain defeatist attitude or mindset among many these days when it comes to defending against weapons with bare hands. It's almost dogma in Mcdojos too. Sad really.

I think it's time for higher standards. Taking a weapon away is not impossible. It happens.

There was an incident in the news recently where an elderly woman took a gun away from her attacker and threatened to shoot him in the nutsack. He ran away...

Even untrained victims can disarm an idiot with a gun sometimes...

[Ben Grimm]

I think gun disarms are possible, but they are way too risky. I've learned a few, but I've never tested them under pressure, so I don't want to have to use them.

[Tant01]

Intent is everything...

I think gun disarms are possible, but they are way too risky. I've learned a few, but I've never tested them under pressure, so I don't want to have to use them.

Do you shoot? Ever practice bayonet drills or "stick" fighting with a handgun?

I feel bad for LEO's that get shot in the line of duty but especially for the one in five killed by his/her own weapon.

Wish they had better training for those EXTREME events... Even the "pro's" can lose their weapon to untrained attackers...