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The Truth and Lies About Women's Self Defense

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  • #31
    Erica, I'm not confused by what you are saying, just in disagreement.

    As Jerry pointed out, I'm not speaking in absolutes, and I'm certainly not advocating telling someone what to do or what not to do. What I am advocating is making them aware of certain realities. What they do with that knowledge afterwards is their own choice.

    Jeff

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    • #32
      Re to Jerry W.

      In THE GIFT OF FEAR - a world class criminal profilist- Gavin DeBecker (works with CIA/FBI) proves that intuition is more than enough - we simply have to listen to it and act on it.

      You talk about the women becoming statistics and not listening to their intuition -this is due larrgly to their social conditioning: they are told to be worried about strange males attacking them (i.e. your list of 500 danger zones) when the reality is they will be victimized by the men that claim to love them. See Justice Dept. Report - "Female Victims of Violent Crime".

      You speak about my being in denial and wanting to change the world. I believe it is you who are in denial because you buy into the myths and you do not reconize that if men would hold other men accountable for their violence (a choice to abuse power) that the world would indeed change for the better. It is not impossible - it is a choice- I hope you will make it.

      Again - I urge you men who are insisting on spouting out prevention tips to instead TAKE ACTION!

      Volunteer at your local rape crisis center, battered women's shelter, local batterer's intervention program, stop usuing poronography, confront you fellow men when you hear/see them demean women or confront men when you know when they are comitting violence against the women in their lives.

      The most important fights are not always with your fists and feet join the fight to stop violence against women.

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      • #33
        Justice Department statistics are NOT complied by radical feminists, but by conservative - largly male- law enforcement officers.

        PS- The FBI documents that less than 2% of sexual assault reports are false.

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        • #34
          "Oh, I'll never get it! NEVER!" (crashing his forehead full force into his piano)

          - Don Music, Sesame Street musician


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          • #35
            The Book The Gift of Fear

            Read the book THE GIFT OF FEAR. I bet it will be one of the best reads of your life. In fact, if it is not one of the best books you have read - I will buy it back from you. It only costs $7.00 in paperback. I believe it was on the NY Times Bestseller list a record number of weeks. I think you might be surprized.


            His web page - http://www.gdbinc.com/

            Erica

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            • #36
              Gavin de Becker



              This man is the leading expert on intuition- Here is his bio.
              erica

              Gavin de Becker is widely regarded as our nation's leading expert on the prediction and management of violence. He is the best-selling author of THE GIFT OF FEAR, PROTECTING THE GIFT, and FEAR LESS. His work has earned him three Presidential appointments and a position on a congressional committee. He was twice appointed to the President's Advisory Board at the U.S. Department of Justice, and was a principal advisor on the federal research project into mentally ill people who stalk public figures. He served two years on the Governor's Advisory Board at the California Department of Mental Health. He is currently co-chair of the Domestic Violence Council Advisory Board.

              Mr. de Becker is a Senior Fellow at the UCLA School of Public Policy.

              CONSULTING
              As a consultant to many major media figures, government agencies, Fortune-500 companies, and universities, he has overseen the assessment and management of more than 25,000 cases. His seventy member firm maintains the world's largest library of threat and obsessive communications, consisting of more than 350,000 pieces of material. Clients include the Central Intelligence Agency, the U.S. Supreme Court, the U.S. Marshals Service, the Los Angeles County District's Attorney's Office, and many others.

              MEDIA / PUBLIC EDUCATION
              He has appeared as an expert on every major news show and has been interviewed several times by Oprah Winfrey, Larry King, Maria Shriver, Sam Donaldson, Mike Wallace, and Ed Bradley. He's been quoted and profiled in TIME and Newsweek, U.S. News & World Report, the New York Times, and many other publications.

              Mr. de Becker wrote the introductions for To Have Or To Harm, the first book on stalking (Warner Books), and for Beauty Bites Beast: Awakening the Warrior Within Women and Girls.

              Mr. de Becker's first book THE GIFT OF FEAR was an instant #1 national bestseller, and spent four months on the New York Times bestseller list. It has now been published in fourteen languages.

              His weekly column of intuitive word puzzles, "Thinking Caps," appears in 536 newspapers nationwide. He is a Contributing Editor for USA WEEKEND Magazine.

              MOSAIC®
              Gavin de Becker is the designer of MOSAIC®, the threat assessment systems used for high-stakes predictions. In 1991, the California State Police adopted MOSAIC® for screening threats to the Governor and other Constitutional officers. In 1993, he developed MOSAIC-2®, the system used by the United States Supreme Court for evaluating threats to Justices. A MOSAIC® system is also used by the United States Capitol Police for threats against Senators and Congressmen, and by the Central Intelligence Agency for screening inappropriate and threatening mail.

              Working with the U.S. Marshals Service, Mr. de Becker developed MOSAIC-3®, designed specifically for assessment of threats to federal judges. In 1996, the Director of the Marshals Service selected Gavin de Becker & Associates to co-design a system for evaluating risk to abortion clinics and other reproductive health facilities.

              Gavin de Becker & Associates designed MOSAIC-5® for government agencies, universities, and corporations to evaluate potentially violent employees or students.

              The sophisticated technology was made available to regular citizens through MOSAIC-20®, a system that evaluates husbands and boyfriends whose abuse might escalate to homicide. With it, police departments, prosecutors, and courts can improve their predictions. It has been adopted by police departments throughout the nation.

              MOSAIC® systems have been designed for the Federal Reserve Board, the Los Angeles Police Department, Yale University, Boston University, the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department, the L.A. District Attorney's Office, and State Police agencies in New Mexico, Nevada, Missouri, and many others.

              In 1997, a U.S. Department of Justice study selected MOSAIC as "one of the ten leading technologies benefiting crime victims and those who serve them."

              EXPERT WITNESS TESTIMONY
              Mr. de Becker has served as an expert witness or consultant on many prominent cases, including both the criminal and civil cases against O.J. Simpson. He testified in the case against Arthur Richard Jackson, the assailant of actress Theresa Saldana. He testified in the case of Tina Marie Ledbetter, who sent 6,000 death threat letters to Michael J. Fox, and assisted the prosecution in the case against Robert Bardo, the murderer of actress Rebecca Schaeffer. He testified in the nation's first use of the stalker law in a case involving a public figure, as well as in the first successful use of California's Keene Bill. He has testified in several cases involving schools and young people in which the prediction and management of violence was a key factor.



              PUBLIC SPEAKING
              As a regular speaker to law enforcement, government, and victims groups, he has addressed such topics as stalking, mental illness in America, workplace violence, public figure safety, crimes against women, and protecting children from violence. He addressed the LAPD Threat Management Conference for four consecutive years, and has been a keynote speaker at Notre Dame University, the District Attorney's Association, the National Victim Center, as well as security and management professionals at Atascadero State Hospital, the Central Intelligence Agency, the U.S. Supreme Court, the U.S. Marshals Service, and many other police and corporate organizations.



              TRAINING
              Gavin de Becker co-produced and co-wrote the leading training program on workplace violence. "Confidential Report To Management: Understanding and Preventing Workplace Violence" includes interviews with Dr. Park Dietz, shooting victim Laura Black, and several actual perpetrators of major incidents. Narrated by Efram Zimbalist, Jr. and produced by Emmy-award nominee Gregory Orr, the four-hour program includes Mr. de Becker's comments on pre-employment screening, case-management, and how to handle difficult terminations. It won the gold medal for Best Training Video at the 1994 Mercury Video Awards, and was rated "100 out of 100 points" by the Employee Assistance Professionals Association.

              Gavin de Becker & Associates offers advanced training events at the UCLA Conference Center. Managers from Government agencies, schools, and the private sector learn the newest strategies for managing situations that might escalate to violence.

              In 1996, he provided two full training days on domestic violence prediction for 800 members of the New York City Police Department, and he has taught advanced classes at the FBI Academy.

              AWARDS
              In 1985, he received a special award from the Attorney General and the Director of the FBI for his work in threat assessment. He has received the Director's Certificate of Appreciation from the CIA, an award from the International Association of Chiefs of Police, the "Distinguished Hoosier Award" from the Governor of Indiana, and the Presidential Inaugural Certificate of Appreciation.

              CHARITY
              Gavin de Becker founded and funds "Patient Pets," a charity that provides pets for mental patients hospitalized long-term, some for life. In its seventh year, "Patient Pets" currently makes pet therapy available to more than 250 patients.

              Gavin de Becker & Associates has provided primary funding for the Los Angeles County Domestic Violence Hotline since its inception. The hotline automatically connects callers to the nearest shelter.

              He is founder and serves as co-chair (along with Victoria Principal) of "Victory Over Violence." Victory Over Violence provides funding for nursing care at shelters, gifts and events for children of battered families at Christmas, and other services for battered women and their children.

              LEGISLATION

              He has testified before the California Senate Judiciary Committee, and has provided testimony regarding stalker laws to the U.S. Senate. He provided consultation and testimony for stalker legislation in Texas, New Mexico, Nevada and Michigan.

              After leading a national campaign to keep the assailant of Theresa Saldana in secure custody, he helped design legislation to deal with similar cases. He wrote California's Threat-trespass Statute, which was signed into law by the Governor in 1991, and more than anyone else, he has kept these issues on the national agenda.

              Comment


              • #37
                Erica

                Although I disagree with you on some subjects, I was wondering if you could email me that business plan you used, and with your permission, if I could pass your email (and BP) on to a friend of mine who works with battered women.

                My email address is:
                lafnjack@yahoo.com

                Thanks,
                Rooke

                Comment


                • #38
                  Erica - Mr. de Becker's credentials are indeed impressive. Keeping an open mind, I went to his website to read more about his ideas and some of them make sense. I'm sure if and when I get a chance to read his book, he would express even more things I'd agree with. However...I still can't say I agree with many of the statements you've made. It really sounds in your arguements like you are trying to replace knowledge others have gained from experience with "intuition". That is like saying one shouldn't study history and the lessons it has taught us, one should go and face the world blindly. You seem very closed-minded about this, not really seeming to be willing to acknowledge other points of view or valid arguements others make. I understand you feel very strongly about the rights of women and that is a great thing, your cause is very just. I agree that we should all be doing our best to try to change the way our society works on many fronts: violence towards women, race issues, religious intolerance, etc. But while we are working on those things, it's imperitive to be aware of the realities that face us right now.

                  Give me your thoughts on this scenario. Let's say I have an attractive daughter who is beginning her freshman year in college. Before she goes off to school, I say "Honey, listen. Don't go to frat parties and get real drunk unless you have people with you that you can trust will look after you. There are guys out there who will take advantage of you and bad things could happen to you. Enjoy yourself, but be aware of this. I'm only telling you this because I love you. Ok, now go have a good time!"

                  Now, is it wrong for the father to warn the daughter of these things? Is he suppressing her rights as a woman? Should she simply rely on her intuition to tell her that she is in potential danger? I really don't think so. It doesn't even have to be the father telling her this, it could be the mother, an aunt, a friend. Someone who recognizes the realities of the situation and warns a younger, less experienced person of a potential hazard. And after this advice has been given, if the daughter disregards it and ends up being assaulted, it still isn't her fault! She is not to blame and no one ever has a right to do that to her, no matter the situation, no matter what she was wearing. But does that mean that the advice should not have been given?

                  Seriously, no book references, no statistics, just tell me your own opinion about this situation, I really want to know so I can better understand where you're coming from.

                  Best,

                  Jeff

                  "I absolutely refuse to acknowledge the slightest possibility that I might be closed-minded."

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Reply

                    Yes. Gavin De Becker is very impressive and he does know what he is talking about.

                    If you have/had any resources to back up your arguments - I would read them - please post in your future arguments. I am not narrow minded, but annoyed -like many women instructors and crisis center counselors, at people who keep perpetuating the myths about women's self defense and violence against women - that keep women oppressed (i.e. your 500 tips -do and do not do list).

                    I teach college classes:
                    As for your scenario- first of all you are naive to think that your daughter would not go to a frat party and drink just because you told her not to. Secondly, a non-blaming way to state your scenario would be to let your daughter know that men use tools like alchol and drugs to perpetrate violence against women. Rather then telling your daughter "honey- don't go to the frat party and drink" you would accomplish your objective (your daughter's safety) much more effectivly by having your daughter actually talk with survivors of college aquaintance rape. The survivors can tell her first hand what tools the men used against them. Then your daughter can make her own informed decision about what she wants to do. What your daughter will most likely hear from the survivors is that had an intuitive feeling that something was wrong (whether they were drinking or not) and this will hopefully prompt her to listen to and act upon her own intuition if she finds herself in a similiar scenario.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Objective Reality?

                      Mr. Wetzel

                      You accused me of being in denial of "objective reality".
                      For every woman in this country, objective reality involves being afraid that the man approaching you in the parking deck may target you for sexual assault. It means having to contend with sexual harrassment from bosses, coworkers, professors, friends, family, etc. on a DAILY basis. It means not being paid equal pay for equal work. It means seeing yourself and other women objectified in music, flim, and print media on a daily basis. You are incredibilty ignorant to assume you know what women's objective reality is.

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                      • #41
                        Erica:
                        *sigh* lol!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Erica,

                          You are quick to accuse and slow to listen.

                          "You are incredibilty ignorant to assume you know what women's objective reality is."

                          You do realize that by using the word "women's" it is no longer objective. Perspective perhaps. Maybe subjective. But NOT objective.

                          "I believe it is you who are in denial because you buy into the myths and you do not reconize that if men would hold other men accountable for their violence (a choice to abuse power) that the world would indeed change for the better. It is not impossible - it is a choice- I hope you will make it. "

                          You do not know me, what I teach or what I believe. Please do not ASSUME you do. Women in my family have been violently victimized by men. As a child, I witnessed it first hand. Do not try to accuse me of buying into myths or claim to know what I do or do not recognize.

                          In regards to Gavin DeBecker: I have read "The Gift of Fear" several times as well as "Protecting the Gift" and "Fear Less". I have bought several copies of TGOF and given them to family, students, and friends. TGOF is required reading for my students.
                          I'm going to try to explain this, but I have no interest in going in circles with you over it. I believe that students shoud be made aware of certain danger signs or behaviors. Think of them as PINs. Intuition SHOULD be enough, however, as your statistics show, this often is not the case. Without the ability to recognise PINs, intuition is likely to go ignored.

                          "Justice Department statistics are NOT complied by radical feminists, but by conservative - largly male- law enforcement officers."

                          LOL! Who said anything about "radical feminists"? I was referring to people with vested political or financial interest in certain statistical survey results. LOL! Although, I suppose "radical feminists" could be considered One of those groups, I assure you I wasn't thinking of them. LOL! If you don't get this statement, then you are naive. If you believe everything the government tells you,see previous sentence.
                          Finally, please don't take anything I say personnaly. It is never personal. I am not arguing to convince you of anything, but rather for those who may be reading this who deserve to hear another point of view.

                          Stay safe,
                          Jerry
                          Last edited by Jerry Wetzel; 07-18-2002, 01:52 AM.

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                          • #43
                            Well done Jerry Wetzel, they made me think of it in a new perspective. Thanks.

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                            • #44
                              I wish someone had informed the little girl in California about the "Lost Puppy Dog" lure, explained in great detail in a book entitled "Childlures" - for more info see www.childlures.com

                              Her intuition was not enough to defend against a polished predator using one of the oldest tricks in the book. It was not her "fault" - she just did not know any better.

                              No offense intended here toward any of you fine people, just my thoughts on the subject.

                              HAGRID

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                              • #45
                                Erica, if the "daughter" in our little scenario is now armed with the advice of an experienced person (be it her father who had one of his best friends raped at such a party or be it some random survivors of similar incidences), she is no longer using "intuition". She is now using knowledge, perhaps even "advice". No myths are involved here, just the facts, m'am.

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