women and martial arts

[chalambok]

I have been doing martial arts for a while now and I have found about 90-95% in class, irregardless of sex, will quit. If anyone stays with it they obviously feel they are benefiting in some way. To expect a smaller person to readily kick the ass of a larger person is unrealistic. Also remember that while men do get in more fights than women, women get attacked far more often. The focus of the training is different, and it doesn't matter what is being taught so much as the mindset of the recipient.

[tatsu]

hey, i'm new here. just wanted to comment on this thread - i've been training in one martial art or another since i was 7 (i'm now 17) and am currently practicing wei-to kung fu. my club is extremely small (about 11 of us total) taking private lessons and one group session a week. point is, i'm the only girl in the entire club. not only that, i'm the youngest as well. the guys aren't used to having to spar with a girl and i can relate to whoever said u really have to prove yourself before they start taking you as a serious martial artist.
my last club had 40 people just before i left and i saw both girls and guys walking in and out every other week. i reckon its really an idividual thing and some people can hack it, some cant. same as anything really - if it works for u then thats great. if not, not.

~

[swan104]

Originally posted by tatsu
and am currently practicing wei-to kung fu. my club is extremely small (about 11 of us total) taking private lessons and one group session a week. point is, i'm the only girl in the entire club. not only that, i'm the youngest as well. the guys aren't used to having to spar with a girl and i can relate to whoever said u really have to prove yourself before they start taking you as a serious martial artist.
my last club had 40 people just before i left and i saw both girls and guys walking in and out every other week. i reckon its really an idividual thing and some people can hack it, some cant. same as anything really - if it works for u then thats great. if not, not.

~

Hi Tatsu. Can I ask what Wei-To Kung Fu is? Also, in the school I train in, I think there are only one or two girls about. I know that when I'm partnered up with a girl, I do have a tendency to take things a lot easier than if I would do if I was partnered with a man. I know I'm not doing the girl any good by not feeding in the jabs, crosses etc properly, but I honestly don't want to hit a girl!

It's funny actually because I wanted to improve my CV, so I took part in a boxercise session at my local gym. I was partnered with this girl and I didn't want to workout on the focus pads like I normally would do, just in case I scared her away! I think I ended up looking like a weed!

The only thing I can think of to say Tatsu, is to let the other males in the class that you mean business and get them to step up a gear or three.

Steven

[movalchick]

i know exactly what u mean tatsu im also the youngest and only girl in my class(i take Kung Fu San Soo) i did have to prove myself also but now i am just as equal as them. i see ppl comein out all the time even when they barely learned anything. so belt are u? i am going for green this month (not as if belt matters as much as ablity) any way high five to u, one female kung fuist to another

[RBFC]

Sex is not the factor that determines who stays in martial arts training. It is the inner drive of the individual that keeps them going. This is true for those who excel at anything in life.

Lee

[tatsu]

hey 2 every1 that replied 2 my post.
swan - wei-to is a style that dies out in china long ago - my sifu's sifu learnt and brought it back 2 england and taught it 2 4 people, one of them is my sifu which makes my clubs current learners only the 3rd generation in it. we are the only club in the world apart from one in holland that teaches the style - the best i can describe it as is traditional style mix of lau gar and hung quen (spelling?) it's something of which im very proud and extremely honoured to be part of. i hope that answers your question ^_^
PS. about the 'not hitting a girl' thing. i mean i can see where guys are coming from, but if u think about it - if u keep letting girls have it easy and stuff they end up perhaps being *too* confident - a dangerous state of mind as u will no doubt appreciate. i think when your training the attitude to have is that your sparring with another *student* and eliminate in your mind their gender. after all, being able to have that kind of control over your mind is what martial arts are all about right ^_~

movalchick - i've only been training at my new club for 5 months so i have not yet had a chance to grade, but i have one coming up mid-april as well as a competition the following week! @_@. there's a point how do you feel about competitions?

lee - i fully agree with your comment. when it comes to sticking to anything it's how much you put in that determines how much you get out. but i find that guys (sometimes inavertantly) do not train withn girls as they do with other guys - something i think should be considered an issue and perhaps done something about. but the problem is not tanglible, so harder to sort out that other things perhaps - it is in the attitude of some men that the problem lies.

anyway, sorry to go on ^_^ thanks for all your comments
stay stong people

~

[movalchick]

well we arent allowed to compete because our grand master (jimmy h woo) believed kungfu san soo was for survival, (he fought in death matches before coming to america) he competeed once for chartiy and got kicked out for hitting the other guy and knocking him out so he saw competions a waste unless you get to really use the tequines. i personally wouldnt want to compete, but i like the varity it would offers so when we go out to other studios for black belt promos and such we work out with the people there, and it sorta turns into a competions amoung sifus student(whos are the best) so we are in top but anyway i hope u do good in ur competion

[swan104]

Originally posted by tatsu
hey 2 every1 that replied 2 my post.
swan - wei-to is a style that dies out in china long ago - my sifu's sifu learnt and brought it back 2 england and taught it 2 4 people, one of them is my sifu which makes my clubs current learners only the 3rd generation in it. we are the only club in the world apart from one in holland that teaches the style - the best i can describe it as is traditional style mix of lau gar and hung quen (spelling?) it's something of which im very proud and extremely honoured to be part of. i hope that answers your question ^_^
PS. about the 'not hitting a girl' thing. i mean i can see where guys are coming from, but if u think about it - if u keep letting girls have it easy and stuff they end up perhaps being *too* confident - a dangerous state of mind as u will no doubt appreciate. i think when your training the attitude to have is that your sparring with another *student* and eliminate in your mind their gender. after all, being able to have that kind of control over your mind is what martial arts are all about right ^_~
~

You're absolutely right. I think its just a conflict between my own personal ethics and what is right for the girl. In all the martial arts school I have trained in, less than 1% of the people that train are women.

Anyway, it sounds like you study a system of kung fu that has Southern Shaolin origins. I trained in Hung Kune for 3 years when I was at university in Liverpool, and it was fun! All those horse stances (ouch)! Ahh...those were the days!!

Good luck in your training!

Steven

[mrniceguy148]

just my two cents worth........

Hi platinum_angel,

I have to agree with you based on my own observations at the school that I used to train at.

When I was training I would always take the time to size-up everyone in the school......men, women, old, young, white belt, black belt and all belts in between. When I did this I was looking for specific things,...i.e.,...signs of mental toughness, quickness, and raw striking power; and I soon came to realize that belt ranking was almost irrelevant as far as my own personal grading system is concerned. I'm sure that anyone who's ever joined any kind of martial arts program has also gone through the same type of mental ritual of sizing-up the competition......and I'm also certain that every women in our school (about 30-40 ladies) could see, after about six months training, just how rediculous Charlie's Angels really is.

The fact is, most women take up the martial arts; not for the workout, not to become a black-belt, and certainly not to meet guys; they train because they want to learn self-defense. However, that's where most martial arts schools fail many women and quite a few guys also. The problem is that everyone in the class is force fed the same program regardless of gender and regardless of physical limitations.

I got a dose of this in my first day of class. Several years ago I broke my left hand badly in a car accident. The injury didn't heal properly so now I cannot close my left fist. When I mentioned this to my sensi he just told me to follow the program and to just forget about my hand. In other words, he told me to keep working on punching techniques that would get me injured if I ever tried to use them in a real attack situation. The fact of the matter is that most martial arts systems are best suited for young athletic men, and anyone else who joins the program is expected to blindly follow in lock-step -- with no room deviation.

The problem seems to arise after most women have been training for about six months to a year, or after her basic punching and kicking ability starts coming to the surface. At that point most women that I've seen start to realize that they'll never to be able to punch and kick as hard as the guys and that's when the either lose interest and/or start dogging it in class. Personally speaking, I'd always feel a bit deflated whenever I'd see someone walk in off the street and then proceed to hit the bags harder on his first day than I ever could no matter how hard I trained. I'd imagine most women would feel the exact same way.....only more do!

IMHO, I feel that most martial arts systems are the wrong choice for most women. Many would probably be better off combining a more streamlined self-defense program like Impact with cardio kickboxing. The martial arts are great for anyone who understands exactly what they offer and what they don't offer, and is motovated by other reasons other than self defense. However, the way that I see it, most women who decide to try the martial arts do so for the wrong reasons and I think that many end getting the quick shuffle; and consequently they end up feeling even more vulnerable after the training. But like I said -- this is only my two cents worth......


Hope this helps!,
Mr Nice Guy

[movalchick]

in my personal opinion, in response to mr nice guy, when i see people do better than me, male or female, it pushes me to do better and excel. and just because a person doesnt hit hard it doesnt mean they cant find a "style" that fits them. in my class each person has a special way of fighting, some use power, some use stuns, some use evades, and some use pressure points and leverages. while hitting someone hard may buy u some time there are ways to compensate for any weakness(although one should still try to stregthen those weaknesses) a good instructor would help you find ur way of doing things so they work
theres MY two cents

[mrniceguy148]

Originally posted by movalchick
in my personal opinion, in response to mr nice guy, when i see people do better than me, male or female, it pushes me to do better and excel. and just because a person doesnt hit hard it doesnt mean they cant find a "style" that fits them. in my class each person has a special way of fighting, some use power, some use stuns, some use evades, and some use pressure points and leverages. while hitting someone hard may buy u some time there are ways to compensate for any weakness(although one should still try to stregthen those weaknesses) a good instructor would help you find ur way of doing things so they work
theres MY two cents

Aaahhhhh -- the optimism of youth!

Movalcheck, I understand exactly where you're coming from and, for the most part, I agree with you! However, the point that I was trying to make was that the vast majority of women in my school; from white belt right up the ranks, didn't seem to look at it the same way that you do. Actually, I can't say that I necessarily blamed them for feeling that way either...........

Nonetheless, to be brutally honest with you, my own experiences in kempo, tennis and weight lifting, have convinced me that in most cases the person with the superior athletic ability will destroy the person with the stronger work ethic. That's exactly why Jimmy Conners was a national tennis champion for so many years. He was one of the greatest ever in spite of his half-assed work ethic and in spite of the fact that his service motion was the laughing stock of the men's pro tour. Hard work and dedication are commendable, but in the end those qualities will only take you as far as your God given talents will allow. That's just something that I've learned over the years, and it's a hard pill to swallow..........

Although, I don't mean to suggest that we all can't inprove ourselves in some way! We sure can! Within, of course, the confines of our own individual natural abilities.

Take care,
Mr Nice Guy

[swan104]

I think this was mentioned in another post, but what is disturbing is that there are women out there that believe they can fight after a few lessons of cadio-kickboxing!

I remember attending one of the cardio-kickboxing classes (called "Body Combat" at the local health club), and it is just a glorified aerobics session! The "kata" they made you do was a joke! I'm sure it has is health benefits, but it is not going to gear you for fighting!

I'm also under the impression that the martial arts, such as kickboxing is getting "trendy" for women. This statement is based on the assumption that the large majority of martial artists, are men. I just keep on seeing articles in the "womens" section on kickboxing, kickboxercise, McKickassbo etc. I was even suprised Kali was mentioned at one point because Lucy Liu spent a short bit of time learning it for the Charlies Angels film! They belief was that Kali-Escrima would take off this year because of this!

I think women (and men) should know that the martial arts are not an easy ride, which is why we love it. If all it took was a few "kickboxing" lessons to learn to kick ass, then we wouldn't be studying the martial arts and talking about it on here.

Steven

[Jaelyn]

Most Women fall into a trap!

I took kickboxing in my early twenties (now 30). I wanted to become a bodyguard. I wanted to go to police accademy and take shooting lessons??? A friend got me interested in it.

There were only a few women who took the class. It was at a real Do-Jo, Steve Shepards Palm Beach County. And most of the girls dropped out. There was one who was really dedicated. And another who came in ever so often. She was a nice girl. But she had the skills of a child. Needless to say. We were in the ring sparing one day. And she dropped her hands (bad mistake) so I took the shot. She came back the next day with a black eye.

I received a green belt. But soon dropped out. Mainly cause I got married.

The thing I learned in kickboxing was that you can never learn to much self defense. And that you never know what your opponet on the street will know.

Most Women are very ignorant about learning self defense. Why? I dont know. I've offered to teach many friends and they never take me up on it. I guess they dont realize how little they know. Thats how I was. I used to walk around all Macho trying to start fights, until I took Martial Arts. And then I realized I didnt know Jack about fighting.

But I have found that women can be very dedicated. But I dont think its as important to them as it is with men. I guess they think there will always be a man around to protect them.

[ryanhall]

Kickboxing is not self defense. Especially for a woman.

[tatsu]

jaelyn - i agree with most of what you said apart from the very last part. how can you possibly think that practicing martial arts is more important for men or that women will always be protected?! there is so much more to gain from a martial art than learning how to kick ass - its almost learning how *not* to fight - calming down, avioding compromising situations etc. moreover, a woman needs to know how to defend herself against the very thing she is supposed to be 'protected' by - how often do you hear of a woman attacking another woman (or even a man) in a dark alleyway?

i have gained just as much from the spiritual, philosophical side of martial arts than the actual physical - there needs to be balance as with anything in life. i had a devastating temper on me before practicing martial arts and now, not only have i calmed right down and learn how to channel my rage, i have been able to defend myself decicively and effectively with a clear mind on a number of occasions. maybe the martial arts systems did not work for you, but for me and im sure for many other female (and male) martial artists, the benefits have been lifechanging and in some cases, life saving.

dont count on a man by your side forever - life does not work this way.