women and martial arts

[Crouchtig]

one thing that is starting to change my mind is i watched a program on thai boxing and in it a thai woman had a match. she was hitting pretty hard and both female fighters were agressive. i suppose it depends on the individual. never again will i make such general comments as "women are weak, men are strong."

not doing ma bacuase you dont have a lisense. why should you let someone else prevent you from doing martial arts just because they havn't given permission. i dont have any thai boxing lisence or anything. whos gonna stop me.

some make sensible arguments

but without silly arguments like mine there could be no balance

no one could appreciate the sensible ones

(one of my more poetic moments)

[Ms. J]

misconceptions about woman who train in the Martial Arts

Open Questions

Question 1) How many of you here have taken a Martial arts Class under a Female instructor? In addition, not just one classes how many of you have taken an art under a woman long enough too fully rank in it?

2) On average, based on your experience taking a martial arts class how many woman have you seen rank fully as a blackbelt or receive full instructorship from a male instructor?

3) Based on: Crouchtig Wrote: i put this down to 3 reasons:

1.Little girls are told that they are weak and get used to the idea
2.Women are more likely to cry because they are more emotional
3.Women dont get exposed to physical pain enough nowadays


Response Q1: Who is telling little girls and woman they are weaker, frail and should not fight back? I agree with the above statement to an extent. However, to change these kinds of belief structures we have to look hard at and honestly at both genders to find the reasons why they exist. Men are traditionally and historically fighters based on their core animal instincts, gender and physical make up. This make up drives men to control, order rule and own. Throughout time and history, in most walks of life, religions, and core history’s of men the male and his conquests have been at the core of their lives.

Then we have to look at a woman’s core makeup and historical oppression based on the control of MEN. Women have always been part of what the man was taught to conquer, with part of that mindset came long-term control. This is just a realty of the long term conditioning behind why a woman sometimes believes she is frail and its bad to fight back.

The Long-term control issues man has put on woman has had a huge effect on why woman are the way they are now. Yes, things have changed some and the mindset is staring to change over the past 25 years. However, it takes both genders to fully take the time to understand each other’s issues to facilitate change, and change is hard for many.

Yes, there are huge stigmas that come with a woman in the martial arts. One Stigma to any woman that trains as hard and fights as hard on the floor as a man, that she is Gay, or Violent:

Another example is of a woman not being aggressive or not fighting as hard as others do. Alternatively, woman that will cry and totally leave the room if hit in the face, the reason this happens can differ greatly based on a number of issues. Many times that response is a sign to the teacher that the student has some personal issues. A mans response to the punch in the face is different if he has no issues, for instance a man instead of crying might get engaged or stauncher and fight harder to win. A mans response is to think that crying is a weakness and thus making someone frail and intimidated. Again, those stigmas are normally based on the misconceptions attached to the stigma the reasons why are the important key to understanding.

My perspective and experience, is As a Woman trained mostly by men, with my lifetime experience being intense but very educational. Furthermore, I have learned that based on all of the factors discussed in this letter, teaching both genders but especially woman and children the martial arts or self-defense should be taught from both genders prospective. A balanced team of both prospective tends to work well on the floor when teaching as it helps students to bridge the gap between the reasons why they are there to train. The balance also helps both genders to get over the stigmas based on history, gender make-ups, and long-term mental conditionings. Conditionings that hold students of both genders back from fully exploring and committing to the training in their arts to their fullest potentials.

Because I wanted to see, more woman train in and teach woman martial arts and self-defense. I spent years researching the reasons why we had so few woman training in both areas. Especially as there was so much abuse taking place and so many woman and children dying because of violence in today’s society. I worked to learn how to change the response so that woman could be allowed to bridge the gap they face when training with men. Mainly because its men that women have to face and protect themselves and there children when facing a violent attack or violent crime on the streets.

Furthermore, to help change the cycle of violent crime and abuse in society we as people need to look at the reasons we as individuals are training in an art, and then we need to look at the arts we are taking. Many times people take a traditional core Martial art; with the misconception, it is going to give them self-defense techniques for the streets. But that’s down to the fact that many traditional martial arts teachers forget to tell there students that there are huge differences between Traditional Art and History of the Art compared to the realty of today’s society and saving their lives in a realty based attack on the streets.

Response Q2: I do not know if it is just about woman being more emotional. I think it is more based on long-term conditioning and pain reactions based on what we have been told throughout time and history that our response should be. In actually it might be that women have much more control by doing as they do then you think. In addition, its quite possible woman are much less emotional then men are. For instance A sometimes mental and physical response that a woman has is to let the pain be the stopping of more pain, this is a form of emotional and pain control. It is an instinctive built in response in some cases for woman.

Anger, aggression, and rage are very strong emotions. They are emotions that have been the core of what have driven men to use control and physical strength against each other since the birth of man, they are the strongest of our emotions and are the emotions that drive men to fight in wars, bars or street fights, violet crimes highest rates are physical assaults, attacks, muggings.

Traditional martial arts training stems from men learning how to fight in war, for military and for the elite military men under emperors and conquers. And the core of where training in the traditional martial arts comes from.

From long-term gender conditioning, for a woman, unless she is saving life, society states it is not appropriate for her to fight back or hurt someone. Women are trained and part of their core instincts and make up are to be nurturers. That in itself has much to do with why a woman’s response is what it can be on the floor when she faces aggression or pain. Saving or protecting the young from harm seems to be the only time throughout history that it has been acceptable for a woman to be aggressive. and only over the past 20 years has it become accaptable for a woman to fight against physical abuse at home. and that fighting has to be catorgized legaly as only " stoping agression agasint them to save there lives" The gape between the old mindset and thousands of years of conditioning and training takes a lot of effort to understand and to change. It takes an open and a skilled teacher to help some woman bridge the gape of society-based conditioning.

Changing mindsets and bringing positive change to both genders is hard to achieve because both genders have to experience and learn the realty’s of both mindsets. To even start to bring positive change. One of the first things we have to be able to do is leave the ego and prejudgments of our genders responses behind. Then we as people have to be willing to learn how to bring the changes into effect that will allow us to get beyond the responses that stop us or hold us back from bridging gender gaps.

I have read a number of comments here about woman having it easer in ranking, testing, and still passing tests when moving though there arts. First off I have no clue if the testing commented on in this forum by others, was based on a list of requirements that the men overachieved on or if it was really the woman was not fully filling the requirements and passed anyway or what arts they were taking? traditional kata based or realty based martial arts?

Question: Because of the huge differences between men and woman, common sense would dictate that men and woman learn and strive differently based on their training, gender, society based conditioning, and realty’s of the life they live. The only real way to make changes to responses is by re-education of the long-term conditioning. All of us do the same thing when we train in the martial arts. We are trying to retrain our natural and physical body response to someone coming at as in a physical way.

Response Q3: ok that is a hard statement for me to be calm about. We have huge problems with domestic violence, child abuse and child rape, these instances help to keep the adult cases of reoccurrence of abuse, victimization and violent death rates escalating yearly.

Furthermore, The huge imbalance of what we are talking about and the statement “ women dont get exposed to physical pain enough nowadays” and then why we train woman in martial arts, self defense and awareness and the realty’s of why woman are victims honestly dose not validate that statement.

Note: for me to detail to you all the factors and reasons WHY the above is true and fact would take a very long time, so understand this letter will only be touching the surface of a few of the issues involved and there are many other issues that can affect the overall picture to gender gaps and changing the long term issues.

I am just sort of flabbergasted by the statement as well because to be honest with you, female conditioning states we really don’t want to be beaten more then necessarily and the reasons we are allowed to fight back in today’s society are only to protect our young and to stop aggression against us. Not to have a street brawl with some dude that wants to feel his ego and prove he can fight… because if we as woman do other then the two acceptable reasons above we are viewed as aggressive in a bad way and violent. Anyone that tells you that men and woman are the same or that they should be the same are lying, we are hugely different, and diverse.

Special note to Platinum Angel:

I would advise you start therapy, it seems you have some very deeply seeded issues that should be addressed.

Ms J. Bows Deeply…

https://www.FATE-Organization.com

" Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History"

[kengar]

My gosh, long long, but good post Ms J.
To fight for any other reason but to protect yourself or another is just ignorant. Though there are plenty of women who get into fights for no good reason other than to do so, just like the dumbass guys. (not including tournements)

[Tom Yum]

Yes, I am aware that women are influenced to think differently than men in the instances of emotions, fighting back and physicality. Women have to literally smash the assumptions that are put on them by their male counterparts as well as Female counterparts. Half of the headaches that women get are the result of another woman. If you've ever worked in an office/department where one third of the staff are ladies, then you know about the sniping, snubbing and jealousies. Men AND women prevent women from acting independently. How would a woman's female officemates react if she tookup thaiboxing? Can you hear the sniping?

I think we laid-back guys are a womans best friend. Its the stubborn ones you gotta be aware of

[terry]

Originally posted by Crouchtig
women dont get exposed to physical pain enough nowadays

Crouchtig, you've really outdone yourself this time. I realize you're a teenager, but surely you've heard of childbirth? Um, my wife was on pitocin for 27 hours before she finally had a C-section. I'd take a punch in the face--many, many punches--any day over that.

[platinum_angel]

I would advise you start therapy, it seems you have some very deeply seeded issues that should be addressed.

nothing compared to some people in this world

[Blactress]

Now i, as a teen, have been studying Aikido, jiu jitsu and weaponry for over four years now, recently gining my Black belt in march. Although women do not have the same physical buildup as men,i honestly believe hy can be s good as any other in martial arts. there are some women with the dtermination to keep it up, i have been the only female in a class of twelve for the last two years!!! it' quite a pointless argumnts, each and every can have ther own opinions, but as far as i'm concered, women rule!!!

[Tom Yum]

COngratulations for being able to stick with the program!

[Ms. J]

Fighting, Chicks:

Fighting, Chicks:

Here is something i would like to have both of you sort of think about. Remember first that my original posting is based on the average non-trained woman.

Now, the responses you both have here about how woman tend to be based on woman that have trained, are training or are natural fighters.

See once the average untrained woman trains for a wile, she is no longer the average woman. She like men becomes empowered by the art training in or the concepts that they are learning about. Once they are hooked and training the natural evolution of growth and change takes place. We evolve and change, and we are no longer average women.


Belts Ranks and Titles:

I have stated this many times, Belts, Ranks, and Titles are nothing but pieces of paper that state we have learned a format or program. This piece of paper is nothing more though then your License to learn” this license is just the beginning, as with formal education for a trade or degree, you learn your trade after you have certified in it through the practical education from teaching or applying your papered skills. Before the practical learning stage, all we are doing is learning theories, concepts, and formats.

In the specific case of blackbelt ranks and titles, again it is a piece of paper and a license to learn. Until you teach that art, work with it for years, and apply it to your daily life, you start to learn the practical applications and the real long-term concepts deep within your arts.



Ms. J.... Bows Deeply

PS.

I am working this next 2 weeks with intermediate internet service, i have been out of touch on line most of the past 2 months due to a private contract i am working for the STATE way up in the mountains making it hard to do on line work.

Over the next week i will be answering the past mails and making some press releases as to some up coming books and magazine columns i will be doing in the MA and SDA community over the next few month.

Ms. J bows deeply…..

[karatedog]

WOW That was interesting. however I tend to not quite know who these women are, Myself I own and operate a 68 hour a week job, attend classes 2 nights a week working toward a degree. Attend my Shorinji Kempo class 1 night a week (where I have worked by way to Purple stripe in 1 year and 4 months plus assist teaching a children Ma class on another night. Then ther is always a night or two of paper work for my business and of course each night get in an hour or so workout. Gee I guess i just haven't had time to be lazy, but then again life is precious and being in my late forties I don't plan on missing anything sitting around.

[karatedog]

I have to agree that sometimes women do have advantage. Psychologic speaking Women think in detail, men think on the surface. Thus giving women the edge to process precedures in sequences rather move by move. This also provides women who are trained and focused to achieve chi power eaiser. I am the first to admit I could never produce the physical power my husband does as he goes through a board. Yet with a couple of seconds to focus and there has never been a board that I didn't break.

And I can't agree that once we start MA that it changes us. If only makes us more confident in who we are, Thus making us better at every activity in the dojo, work place, and home.

[terry]

My wife doesn't get the "Stronger than thou" attitude from guys, even the stronger guys. It's more like, "Dang, that chick can deadlift 335." In fact, some guys at the gym won't work the same body part as her on the same day for fear of humiliation.

Actually, what really blew people away was when she would do squats with 225 when she was 8 months pregnant with twins. Even the meathead guys said, "Whoah!"

[Tom Yum]

Dang!

Jan Todd used to teach a powerlifting course at Univ of Texas. She held a couple of olympic records in the mid 80s. I worked out at the old gregory gym, which at the time was this underground inferno with pipes jutting out the wall, no ac (but lots of electric fans) and folks screaming and yelling to get the last rep.

She came in with some of her students and demonstrated power cleans with 205. Man, she made it look so easy.

[Ms. J]

Terry about your lovely wife?

TERRY WROTE: My wife doesn't get the "Stronger than thou" attitude from guys, even the stronger guys. It's more like, "Dang, that chick can dead lift 335." In fact, some guys at the gym won't work the same body part as her on the same day for fear of humiliation. Actually, what really blew people away was when she would do squats with 225 when she was 8 months pregnant with twins. Even the meathead guys said, "Whoah!"
*****

Terry, is your wife goanna watch me beat you up for fun? And is she goanna let me? In addition, can I talk her into competing for me and my cane competition team? ..... weeeeeeee

See woman that train for life are not average women, i am glad that i am not one of the average bears......

Ms Yogi......

Ps. i have to drive out of the mountains again for my bi weekly 1600 mile round trip and will be heading down to LA on tuesday when and where? hehehe

Ms J.... stops playing and goes back to writing articals that are only supose to be a 500 word count but have turned out to over 2000.

shehshs.....

then sniffs... hmmmm i think i am burning the 85 year old goddesses food to boot.... ekkkkkkkkk

[terry]

I have to fly out to Chicago until next Friday. But we'll be around about once a week over in Davis doing house hunting.