Mixed Martial Bullshitters

[EmptyneSs]

Now correct me if I'm wrong...but even the most hard-core main stream style of Karate, Kyokushin, MAS OYAMA'S fighting karate, generally doesn't allow punches to the face in competition. Now...Kyokushin guys are tough, look at Hug and Aerts...but not hitting the face is not full contact, and if I remember correctly, Oyama took many techniques from muay thai when developing his art. Even the competitive fighters of his lineage that fought in Thailand
or fight K-1 will supplement Muay Thai in their training.

Any of you Karate guys that are posting on this particular thread seem to be of the less than hard-core line. I have mucho respect for Kyokushin guys...but nobody trains with the zeal anymore! 'cept Budo Karate House guys...and they'll do Thai fights and tough man competitions just to fight. That's balls, and heart, and that's how you become a good fighter...by FIGHTING.

i fought a guy tonight that did some kind of kempo karate for a while before he came to our school. he was really good, and his techniques all had power in them. one of his leg kicks made its mark and my leg is ultra sore. anyway, what im trying to say is dont ever underestimate someone because of their style. i know some people probobly thought this guy wasnt gonna be able to do that great when sparring thai boxers and boxers by looking at his kempo karate shirt he was wearing when he walked in, but this guy could more than hold his own, and would probobly decimate some regular fool on the street trying to start shit with him.

alot of people say shit like, nah man he wont be that good cause all he trains in is karate or some shit, and i do muay thai or bjj.all that is nonsense. it all comes down to the person and their individual abilities, and how hard they train.

[MuayThaiFighter]

Now correct me if I'm wrong...but even the most hard-core main stream style of Karate, Kyokushin, MAS OYAMA'S fighting karate, generally doesn't allow punches to the face in competition. Now...Kyokushin guys are tough, look at Hug and Aerts...but not hitting the face is not full contact, and if I remember correctly, Oyama took many techniques from muay thai when developing his art. Even the competitive fighters of his lineage that fought in Thailand
or fight K-1 will supplement Muay Thai in their training.

Any of you Karate guys that are posting on this particular thread seem to be of the less than hard-core line. I have mucho respect for Kyokushin guys...but nobody trains with the zeal anymore! 'cept Budo Karate House guys...and they'll do Thai fights and tough man competitions just to fight. That's balls, and heart, and that's how you become a good fighter...by FIGHTING.

Now correct me if I'm wrong...but even the most hard-core main stream style of Karate, Kyokushin, MAS OYAMA'S fighting karate, generally doesn't allow punches to the face in competition.

Wrong,most competitions do allow punches and kicks to face as long as they're controlled even my Goju Ryu karate allowed punches to face.In Muay Thai we definitely punch,kick (mostly to shins though) and knee to face but with full power,I have seen guys get knocked out cold due to it.

Well I don't know much about Kyokushin karate but I do know most karate styles,most martial art styles in general actually are about katas and point sparring.

Any of you Karate guys that are posting on this particular thread seem to be of the less than hard-core line.

True.

you become a good fighter...by FIGHTING.

Agreed,that's what I've always said. Fighting full contact that is.Point sparring is useless.

[MuayThaiFighter]

i fought a guy tonight that did some kind of kempo karate for a while before he came to our school. he was really good, and his techniques all had power in them. one of his leg kicks made its mark and my leg is ultra sore. anyway, what im trying to say is dont ever underestimate someone because of their style. i know some people probobly thought this guy wasnt gonna be able to do that great when sparring thai boxers and boxers by looking at his kempo karate shirt he was wearing when he walked in, but this guy could more than hold his own, and would probobly decimate some regular fool on the street trying to start shit with him.

alot of people say shit like, nah man he wont be that good cause all he trains in is karate or some shit, and i do muay thai or bjj.all that is nonsense. it all comes down to the person and their individual abilities, and how hard they train.

i fought a guy tonight that did some kind of kempo karate for a while before he came to our school. he was really good, and his techniques all had power in them. one of his leg kicks made its mark and my leg is ultra sore. anyway, what im trying to say is dont ever underestimate someone because of their style.

Could it be you're just not good and a whimp ? LOL

i know some people probobly thought this guy wasnt gonna be able to do that great when sparring thai boxers and boxers

And he wouldn't do that great against a boxer or thai boxers.

alot of people say shit like, nah man he wont be that good cause all he trains in is karate or some shit, and i do muay thai or bjj.

No offense but that is because it is true.

it all comes down to the person and their individual abilities, and how hard they train.

That is sort of true.It does come down to individual abilities and how hard they train which also has alot to do with the style and the teacher.In general styles like Muay Thai,Boxing,Jujitsu,Judo,Pankration,Shoot Fighting etc. train harder and smarter then styles like karate,kung fu,tkd etc.,and usually have better instructors.

Some styles teach more realistic stuff then others karate is not one of them.

[EmptyneSs]

Could it be you're just not good and a whimp ? LOL

mabye, but either way u put it ive been training for over a year in boxing and mt, spar many rounds a week with many diffent people, and this was his first time at our school and he sparred a few different people and did great with the standup skills he learned in his training in karate. werever he trained before wasnt a shitty mcdojo.

And he wouldn't do that great against a boxer or thai boxers.

u dont know that

alot of people say shit like, nah man he wont be that good cause all he trains in is karate or some shit, and i do muay thai or bjj.

No offense but that is because it is true.

that aint true, thats just some peoples egos. some schools train very realisticly in different arts and systems, and arent mcdojos.

In general styles like Muay Thai,Boxing,Jujitsu,Judo,Pankration,Shoot Fighting etc. train harder and smarter then styles like karate,kung fu,tkd etc.,and usually have better instructors.

Some styles teach more realistic stuff then others karate is not one of them.

this is true, but there are also many people out there who train in other arts besides those u mentioned who train realistic and train very hard and take their training seriously.

[koto_ryu]

If this is true then you haven't fought any good Thai Fighters you probably sparred beginners who claimed to have lots of experience.Try fighting a good Thai Fighter and you'll get your ass kicked.We are known to have powerful punches just as boxers are and have powerful shin kicks.

My buddy Yakibi from Osaka was ranked within the Top Ten for MT practitioners in Japan, and though I love the guy to death he couldn't knock out a fly with his punches. His elbows and kicks, however, are probably the most vicious I've ever sparred with. My first couple MT matches within Fight Club Heat I won solely through boxing as I was still learning kicks (learned the kicks and the clinch 20 minutes before my first fight) because in my experience they just don't punch well. The elbows, knees, and kicks make up for it but thats why a couple of my fighting buds came to me for boxing lessons and in return they showed me how to kick harder, clinch, and the like.

[koto_ryu]

As for bare-knucklers, longest match was 180 rounds.

You have any proof of this because until I see any I consider this B.S. No one would ever last 180 rounds,that's a hell of alot of rounds to last.

Correction: it was 110 rounds long (normally not wrong, that saddens me ). Bowen vs Burke, lasted for 7 hours and 19 minutes before eventually declared "no contest" then "draw" after the two fighters were so exhausted they couldn't continue. Still a helluva lot of rounds, however, but these guys routinely would fight 30-40 round matches. They were in awesome condition. Jack Johnson would run 150 miles a week tied to a horse and wagon, so if he fell he was only going to get dragged until he got back up to run again, which was common practice back in the day.

[koto_ryu]

An art like karate and kung fu or tkd would obviously lose on street for a few reasons (even against someone with no fighting experience)

1/ usually taught mostly forms
2/sparring usually done lightly and for points with punches pulled
3/taught too many rediculous stances
4/lack in self-defense and street-defense
5/ taught mostly for tournaments

Once again, depends entirely on which form of karate. Most McDojo types, maybe, but the harder forms of karate do full-contact sparring with no padding or gloves, impact conditioning (Meibukan Goju-Ryu does an hour of it during each class, shins, forearms, and thighs most of the time), hand conditioning (which, by the way, if you're going to punch like you do in the ring, expect some broken knuckles), and the like.

[Tom Yum]

Jack Johnson would run 150 miles a week tied to a horse and wagon, so if he fell he was only going to get dragged until he got back up to run again, which was common practice back in the day.

That's Amazing.

I've got your source right here :

http://www.infoplease.com/askeds/5-21-99askeds.html

[koto_ryu]

Too many Martial Arts type people don't recognize the utter uselessness of thier system when a deadly weapon comes into play.

BJJ vs. knife = dead grappler
Muay Thai vs. knife = dead Thai boxer
western boxing vs. knife = dead boxer
insert RBSD vs. knife = you get the point (haha)

And god help them if they're a skilled escrimador with said knife.

[koto_ryu]

That's Amazing.

I've got your source right here :

http://www.infoplease.com/askeds/5-21-99askeds.html

Thanks, I had to look it up in my bare-knuckle history book. Props

[koto_ryu]

As to guns, they are not invinible, just because you get shot you are not necessarily dead. Also with adrenaline pumping people usually have trouble aiming. So the farther away you get the better chance of not getting hit.

Personally, in my own opinion, if I was in close enough quarters I'd rather fight with a guy with a gun over a guy with a knife. Farther away than that, however, I wanna fight the guy with the knife that way he can't shoot me as I run away

[koto_ryu]

Geez that's funny and all this time I thought learning how to fight was a form of avoidance.If you can fight you maybe able to avoid getting pounded on or be put in terrible positions especially if you know MMA.

He means de-escalation and the like.

Well most weaponed arts are useless since most schoools teach only old traditional weapons which you would never use in reality.People don't walk around with nunchuks,sais or tonfas which are considered useless these days with all the guns available.Try using a nunchuk,sai or tonfa against a gun and you will ended up a corps.

Let's see....knives, everywhere. Kusari fundos, any kind of chain or flexible object will work. Staves, tons of em, pool cues, brooms, pipes, and the like. Sure it's doubtful you'll ever see a jutte, wakizashi, or a pair of shuko on the street but there's always stuff to use as weapons. Just something to think about.

[koto_ryu]

If you honestly believe this then it means you've never been in a real fight.

Read the Violence Report in the MMA forums. A man working for Black Belt Magazine did a study with over 1000 studies so far and out of all those fights, only about 38% actually went to the ground.

[koto_ryu]

I'm sure Vitor or Jens could knock out a good MT practitioner

Probably,because as far as I know they know both Muay Thai and Brazillian Jujitsu,the best of two arts.

Both are boxers (btw, didn't Vitor box for Brazil in the Olympics anyone?), but Jens' kicking skills are so shitty I doubt it. He's Miletich Fighting Systems to be sure, they have some shitty kickers in my opinion. Of course, I don't like kicking myself so that's fine with me

[koto_ryu]

Remember, old school boxers couldn't hit as hard as new school boxers.

Sorry for laughing my ass off. You honestly believe that? Jack Dempsey broke several bones in Gene Tunney in the first round of their title match. Jack Johnson hit Sailor Tom Sharkey in the mouth so hard once his bottom lip got stuck between his teeth and Sharkey's corner had to cut it with a razor during rounds. Even when they implemented gloves, Jack Johnson knocked Stanley Ketchel out with such a vicious right uppercut that four of Ketchel's teeth were stuck in his glove. Son, you need to brush up on your history

Say what you will, none of the old school methods can surpass modern training. Do you honestly believe shit doesn't get better with time?

I personally do all my lifting the old way, back when guys could one-finger deadlift over 550lbs, side press over 450lbs, and do one-finger pullups with ease. I guess if you want to tone up and use that leg extension machine, I guess modern methods work

There are some excellent advances, but nobody's looking back to the tried and true methods, just the latest fad. And that is the biggest mistake. In the words of Dr. Ken Letsner "Bodybuilding is the worst thing to ever happen to strength training."