Mixed Martial Bullshitters

[MuayThaiFighter]

Damn man, what the **** you smoking. Just because a gunshot wound may not kill you on the spot, definitely doesn't mean that it won't take the fight right the **** out of you.

You quote that Muay Thai teaches only how to fight and now to...how'd you put it "deal with weapons or VERBAL tactics."

More bullshit. True muay thai doesn't teach small arms or how to use a knife, etc, it still teaches basic body mechanics that one can use to prevent getting killed, if you wan't an example, ask a muay thai guy to knife spar in a controlled enviornment the same way many so-called "reality based martial artists" do, and they will do as well as anybody else.
Verbal tactics, have you ever had a ring fight? You know what a corner is??

Despite all of this, no martial arts or self defense system in the world has a fully working, 100% of the time, realistic gun defense, except for counter sniping, where your shooting at somebody who doesn't know where you are.

Muay thai is as complete a stand-up art as they can get, and because it deals with easier motions, it's easier to learn, and it doesn't rely on a great deal of fine motor functions which make it much more applicable in a self defense situation than any other TMA.

FMA's are better for edged and impact weapons, no doubt, and Krav Maga and Haganah use stuff out of the FMA's for their defenses, which work some of the time, JKD based stuff works some of the time.

Hell, I've heard of some lucky TKD guy knocking a gun out of an assailant's hands with a fucking flying side kick.

Sometimes things work, but in all honesty, and with all lucky strikes out, do you think you could pull off any gun strip or defense on somebody inside a moving car?

That's like "duck and cover" for a nuclear bomb.

I'd like to see a live test, live ammo, with some cop who wasn't in on it does, as one of these reality based martial arts guru's training partners, see just how well the strip does on a reactive and unwilling opponent.
Start them off from 10 feet away from each other.
"Stop" "Don't Move" .....POP
"He Moved"

That is 100% true,I totally agree with you.

[MuayThaiFighter]

Retired, I'm not saying he wasn't a great guy or well accomplished, or even cocky. that wasn't what I was saying.

He just didn't think what he did through very well. It was a car, (SUV, actually if I remember right) and he died for it. You just asked do you let them take if from you, well guess what they still took it from him along with something more important, his life.

My comment was to point out to those people talking about how they can go out a win fights in the "street" because of MT. And that it is the best form of Self Defense. Well guess what in a fair fight you might win, but when you start believing that you are prepared to take on that guy on the street because you know MT is when the other person proves you wrong because they have a gun, a knife, or friends.

It's the bravado around here that needs a check, but really wouldn't thinks have turned out much better for him if he had just gone in and called the police. He'd still be alive today. If some of these previous posters actually believe what they are typing then they may suffer the same fate as Alex.

Reread this thread, then think critically about what people have written. Do you think any of these people saying MT is great for street fights have even half the Talent or ability as Alex?

MT does not ensure your survival, that is the whole point no matter how good you are.

My comment was to point out to those people talking about how they can go out a win fights in the "street" because of MT.

I don't know about other Muay Thai fighters but I don't think that we can just go out and win fights on the street,I do think our chances of winning is higher but not guaranteed,no martial arts guarantees survival on the street but some arts give you a better chance then others.Muay Thai would be the art to give you the best chance of winning against another unarmed assailant in a stand up fight though, of course grappling is also necessary,for an overall fight Pankration and Shootfighting are the best because 9 out of 10 fights end on the ground whether people want to believe it or not.

MT does not ensure your survival, that is the whole point no matter how good you are.

Nor does any other martial arts especially ones like karate,tkd,kung fu,etc.

[MuayThaiFighter]

Hold on here mate, who are you? whats your problem, you have 8 fucking posts and you seem to be fully clued on with the old fighting game, who are you?



I said UFC is boring to watch, ok? ok now that out of the way wheres the contradiction? tell me where is the contradiction? The skill level of the striking and the overall STANDARD of fighting in UFC is not as high as would be in a Muay Thai stadium fight in Thailand or Holland for that matter, that is a fact wether you like it or not.

I said and will always say UFC and any ring sport is not to be compared with reality as it is not that! I didnt say Muay Thai is the ultimate art for UFC, where'd ya get that from?

I said it would be a good idea to train more in Muay Thai particularly because the striking skill from the majority of fighters aint the best in UFC and less in ground work then maybe, just fucking maybe UFC will become interesting to watch. (for me at least)

Mate, Muay Thai is not in UFC, sorry to say this but what you see in UFC are kickboxers with few Muay Thai skills, hey credit must be given to the kick, knee and elbow technqiues they use. Have you ever fought a Muay Thai fighter? not a kickboxer but a Muay Thai fighter?

Mate you are doing it again even when I have explained my meaning behind what i posted you still take segmants of my posts change it around to create the contradicitons, why are you doing that?


Muay Thai is the most practical, wether you like it or not, for street self defense.

I feel that there is way more skill involved, more experience and the standard of fighters in Muay Thai, not K-1 and not kickboxing but professional Muay thai, is a lot higher than that in UFC.

Eh? Pure Thai? where'd ya get that from? hang on here what age are you? I dont think there has been any pure Muay Thai fighters fighting in UFC yet. honestly I think kickboxers yes but pure Muay Thai fighters....erm, NO! Why would they want to fight in UFC when they have Thailand to compete at?

Ok piss poor grappling, haha, again have you ever fought a Muay Thai fighter or have you ever trained in Muay Thai? I have not been dumped in my class by a grappler. Thats the truth, out of all the guys there are 2 who fight MMA, one had a fight last sunday and he won, and train ground work but in our sparring class during clinch they havnt dominated me standing, why is that? well maybe it has something to do with the standard of Muay thai grappling not being as shit as you think it is.

Mate, go ahead and try to chop again because time and time again you will read the same explanations to my shoddy written english? I am so fucking sorry for not having the great skills in the english language that you may posses, I bow down to you and fully appologise. I would imagine I will be still fighting when you have taken up your professional role as a lawyer or some shit.

creating flame wars is getting boring mate.

now out of all that and without choppin words go back to my original post and with the explanations I have given re read and tell me where are the contradicitons?

Khun Khao please help me with some technical details of the standard of fighting in Muay Thai and the standard of grappling.

http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10049

****you know maybe I should read carefully before I post something an dthne correct the grammar mistakes****

First of all although UFC is not real since it has rules,it's the closest you can get to a real fight without weapons ,why? Well think about it, fights start from stand up and most end on the ground.

Second you're wrong Muay Thai can be found in UFC but most of the Thai Fighters in UFC also know grappling.Most of the winners are ones who know both muay thai and grappling.Pankrationists,who study both muay thai and submission wrestling usually win and same goes with the brazillian jujitsu guys.

I said it would be a good idea to train more in Muay Thai particularly because the striking skill from the majority of fighters aint the best in UFC and less in ground work

Ground work is just as important as striking,since 9 out of 10 fights go to the ground and anyone who disagree with that obviously has never been in a real fight.


have you ever fought a Muay Thai fighter or have you ever trained in Muay Thai? I have not been dumped in my class by a grappler. Thats the truth, out of all the guys there are 2 who fight MMA, one had a fight last sunday and he won, and train ground work but in our sparring class during clinch they havnt dominated me standing, why is that? well maybe it has something to do with the standard of Muay thai grappling not being as shit as you think it is.


I have fought several muay thai fighters,since I sometimes compete in pure Muay Thai fights. I am trained in both Muay Thai and Submission Wrestling and I would have to disagree with you.Even me who enjoys Thai fights best since it's what I do best at knows from what I've seen is that the MMA fighters are the ones that do best in competitions.

It is true that the Thai clinche is very effective since it's good for being able to throw knees in but think about it,how long can you hold a guy in clinche for before he'll probably get out of after awhile? So going for a takedown is way more effective then just holding someone in the clinche.When I fight Pankration fights I like to set my opponent up with a front kick,jabs,hooks,knees while holding person in clinche but I also would rather go in for takedown in a Pankration fight otherwise I know I'm screwed.In a pure Muay Thai fight clinche is okay but realistically speaking pure Muay Thai is not the best,only the best for stand up but not for overall fighting.

If you only know Muay Thai and think the clinche works best and you get a guy who is extremely good at judo you're screwed.In a real fight if all you do is keep him in a clinche,you better hope to god he can't pick you up and flip you,because one smack of your head on pure pavement and you're going to the hospital.Obviously pure judo won't work against someone in Muay Thai but my point is if you think the clinche alone is a good thing you're fucked.

So conclusion: you as a pure Muay Fighter come across someone else who is good at both Muay Thai and Judo or Brazilian Jujitsu,you're screwed as simple as that,it's smarter to learn both Muay Thai and some form of grappling.

Muay Thai on its own may work about 89% of the time but Muay Thai with grappling may help 95% of the time in both real competitions and on street provided your opponent doesn't pull out a gun of course ,otherwise it doesn't matter how much martial arts knowledge you have,or how many different martial arts styles or the kinds of arts you know you'll be screwed.

With no guns and knives, arts like Pankration,Shootfighting,Krav Maga,and JKD will kick ass more then Muay Thai.

Now I have a question for you,have you ever even been in a real fight ? and I don't mean one with just a couple guys arguing and throwing a couple punches,I'm talking a real fight with pounding at one another,blood going every where? I have and trust me it's not nice,that's why I know most fights go to the ground.I've sat on a guy and pounded the guy so much his braces ripped the whole inside of his mouth and freaking cut my knuckles,had he known grappling I might have not had the chance to pin him down and had I not known grappling maybe I wouldn't have been able to take him to ground in first place,I would definitely be able to defend standing up.Some guys can be hit hard and just won't go down instead they'll shake it off so you better know how to grapple to make sure he does go down.

[eXcessiveForce]

if your corner is using verbal de-escalation in the middle of your match you have a problem.

[eXcessiveForce]

Never said that getting shot wouldn't take the fight out of you, never said anything about training weapons. I said it doesn't take into account weapons.

The whole point is in self defense you de=escalate when every possible. Escalate when there is no choice left. If you get to the point 9 out of 10 times you didn't do very good in the first place.

Not taking into account that the other person may be armed and prepared to kill you would be a flaw in any system of self defense.

Whether a RBSD guy can strip a gun is irrelevent, They should know not to chase down people who are no longer a threat to you to retrieve property which could be replaced by insurance. They would know that chasing them down would be escalation. They would know that since they are unarmed that it would be unwise to do it.

And no fighting is not avoidance, that type of thinking could get you into a world of trouble. You also need to realize that sometimes in real life the fight doesn't end just because the guy gives up. He may come back tomorrow and shoot you as you walk out of your house in the morning.

[eXcessiveForce]

Here is a little story for you that actually happened.

Two armed police chased a suspect who fled on foot and was thought to be unarmed. The lost him in an alley. As the looked they heard a dog barking in a high fenced area. On officer realized the suspect was in the fenced area so he jumped the fence and proceeded to take down the suspect who was hiding right next to the fence on the other side but out of view. After the police had the suspect in custody they found that the suspect had a shot gun and had fired the gun but it jammed.

Now the presumption was the person was not armed. Not only was he armed but had the opportunity to fire on the policeman as he jumped the fence. It is only because of mech. failure that he is still alive. The job of the police was to apprehend. They were armed and only luck kept the one officer alive.

A person using self defense logic would have been not to pursue the suspect because he is running away. Thus no longer a threat.

No martial art ensures success, this is true, But not being there ensures success every single time.

[Tant01]

MTF>>>[quote] Ground work is just as important as striking,since 9 out of 10 fights go to the ground and anyone who disagree with that obviously has never been in a real fight.[quote]


I see you're fond of the Brazilian propaganda machine....While it is true that many fights go to the ground it's been more like half in my experience... that's 5 out of 10 for you math wizzards...

IF 9 out of 10 go to the ground it would seem that ground work is WAY more important than striking....But I'm in agreement that it is equally important...?

[EmptyneSs]

9 out of 10 fights going to the ground isnt true. its more like 3 fights out of 10 go to the ground.

[MuayThaiFighter]

[QUOTE=Tant01]MTF>>>[quote] Ground work is just as important as striking,since 9 out of 10 fights go to the ground and anyone who disagree with that obviously has never been in a real fight.

I see you're fond of the Brazilian propaganda machine....While it is true that many fights go to the ground it's been more like half in my experience... that's 5 out of 10 for you math wizzards...

IF 9 out of 10 go to the ground it would seem that ground work is WAY more important than striking....But I'm in agreement that it is equally important...?

I see you're fond of the Brazilian propaganda machine....While it is true that many fights go to the ground it's been more like half in my experience... that's 5 out of 10 for you math wizzards...

I wouldn't exactly call it propaganda.I am fond of any martial arts that is realistic and Brazilian Jujitsu is one of them despite it being very limited because I know how effective it is for grappling,I also know it's very effective when combined with stand up.

IF 9 out of 10 go to the ground it would seem that ground work is WAY more important than striking....But I'm in agreement that it is equally important...?

I don't see how fights ending on the ground 9 out of 10 x makes ground work way more important,after all fights usually start from stand up position before they go to the ground.My point was if you go to the ground,you better know how to grapple so you can get back on your feet.It's not always the person who first went on the ground that loses,sometimes the other person ends up on ground near end of fight but either way someone ends up losing on the ground.

If you can grapple hopefully you won't be the one who loses on the ground.

[MuayThaiFighter]

9 out of 10 fights going to the ground isnt true. its more like 3 fights out of 10 go to the ground.

If you honestly believe this then it means you've never been in a real fight.

[Garland]

Lets be serious, the vast majority of fights get broken up before anyone can get seriously injured. Probably not even enough time to go to the ground, or get a KO. People pull their friends off people, durpty dur...
Fuckity ****,
Of all the fights that go the distance, maybe 7 out of ten, at a guess (statistics are easy to manipulate to reflect what you want, and hence, easy to reject as bullshit) go to the ground, which isn't like a grappling match, but more like some heavy **** throwing punches wildly.
Ground game in a real brawl is highly questionable-why?, wel chilluns, because when your wrestling around with my pal, I'm going to run up and do a Casino-esque Joe Pesci impression all over your face with my wing tips, and whatever turf your in is likely to be a whole lot fucking harder and harsher than the gym, imagine rolling on a mat, now over broken glass, or little itty bitty rocks that dig in and irritate the **** out of you.
The likely hood of a weapon coming into play depends...suprise suprise, on who your fucking with and where you are, and what the scenario is...i.e. some people are a bit more likely to be packing...
What people here seem to lack is

AHA
COMMON SENSE.
yup.
New years, keep the pimp hand strong, playaz.

[EmptyneSs]

If you honestly believe this then it means you've never been in a real fight.

most real fights dont end up on the ground. anyone who says 9 out of 10 fights end up on the ground doesnt know about real fights. its great to know groundfighting just in case u do get taken to the ground, but be realistic. ur saying 90% of real fights in streets and bars and alleys turn into groundfighting? anyone with some real world experience can tell u otherwise.

[MuayThaiFighter]

most real fights dont end up on the ground. anyone who says 9 out of 10 fights end up on the ground doesnt know about real fights. its great to know groundfighting just in case u do get taken to the ground, but be realistic. ur saying 90% of real fights in streets and bars and alleys turn into groundfighting? anyone with some real world experience can tell u otherwise.

Well I do have some real life experience in fights.I didn't specify exactly how they go on the ground.

Lets say I punch you so hard you fall back on the ground and I jump on top of you before you have a chance to get back up and you the average person have no grappling experience,I could then pin you to ground and start punching you until you give up,I didn't necessarily mean there would be any ground fighting such as in a gym,because the average blow jo on the street doesn't have grappling experience,what I meant is 9 out of 10 x someone does end up finished on the ground,I didn't mean two people start wrestling on the ground.Of course the average fight doesn't involve two people wrestling on the ground but it does involve someone being taken to ground whether a person knows grappling or not it just that if you do happen to know grappling it helps since most fights do go to ground whether it's because I tripped you,flipped you,or managed to pull you down perhaps because I'm bigger and stronger or because I covered your face with your own shirt or jacket and you didn't see what was coming etc.obviously that doesn't include if you get knocked out cold with a knee because then the fight is definitely finished right away and then there is no need to take you to ground since you'd automatically fall.

This is just an example so don't take it personally.

[HtTKar]

I have started a thread in the MMA forum I think about this. Lets be realistic and use facts to back up our statements. Look at the facts and you'll see that some people say 90% of fights go to the ground, some say 60, some say 30. Noone uses cold-hard facts. Facts are easy to get. I've challenged everyone to prove that 90% of fights end on the ground, and noone can. The closest to any cold-hard facts is this thread http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/s...ad.php?t=14003

[jubaji]

Lets be serious, the vast majority of fights get broken up before anyone can get seriously injured. Probably not even enough time to go to the ground, or get a KO. People pull their friends off people, durpty dur...
Fuckity ****,
Of all the fights that go the distance, maybe 7 out of ten, at a guess (statistics are easy to manipulate to reflect what you want, and hence, easy to reject as bullshit) go to the ground, which isn't like a grappling match, but more like some heavy **** throwing punches wildly.
Ground game in a real brawl is highly questionable-why?, wel chilluns, because when your wrestling around with my pal, I'm going to run up and do a Casino-esque Joe Pesci impression all over your face with my wing tips, and whatever turf your in is likely to be a whole lot fucking harder and harsher than the gym, imagine rolling on a mat, now over broken glass, or little itty bitty rocks that dig in and irritate the **** out of you.
The likely hood of a weapon coming into play depends...suprise suprise, on who your fucking with and where you are, and what the scenario is...i.e. some people are a bit more likely to be packing...
What people here seem to lack is

.

Wow. The "what about his friends?", "dirty floor", "look out, he's got a knife!" cliches all in one! A three-fer!