Hip Hop Profanity, Misogyny and Violence: Blame the Manufacturer

[Tom Yum]

Hee hee.

I'm part of "they" in that I tend to listen to all kinds of music, including hip hop, when I train. I'm not about to pull that old cop out and say "I just listen to the beat, not the lyrics." I can quote the lyrics of every rap song on my workout CDs. So I'm a consumer, too.

The only difference is, I don't presume to point fingers at "the Manufacturer" or anyone else.

The lyrics, beat and tunes create the mood, right. I'm a consumer as well but I don't actively try to emulate it either.

Every now and then a word will slip in but its more like "what's up brotha"

[medic06]

Hee hee.

I'm part of "they" in that I tend to listen to all kinds of music, including hip hop, when I train. I'm not about to pull that old cop out and say "I just listen to the beat, not the lyrics." I can quote the lyrics of every rap song on my workout CDs. So I'm a consumer, too.

The only difference is, I don't presume to point fingers at "the Manufacturer" or anyone else.

You can train to hip hop without the derogatory lyrics.

[GonzoStyles]

this is where real hip-hop is, despite the lamentations of rapper Paris in the article Uke quotes, the underground is alive and well.


anyone in Houston should tune in to 91.7 KTRU Rice radio
(KTRU.org in realaudio) tonight at 10pm for "the Vinyl frontier" the host DL has been giving Houston its weekly does of underground hiphop for years.

[Tom Yum]

I have seen young women who call each other bitch so often that I don't think that they know each other's name. Its all in the context.

If I say "That bitch is beautiful", its not insulting.

If I say "That bitch isn't worth the time of day", that is insulting.

More than not, the context of what is being said is what determines whether a word like "bitch" is insulting. But this isn't Ebonics 101, and the issue isn't about what is an exceptable term. We both know that there are plenty of things that we could say that he'd get slapped for, and not because of Black or White reasons either.

People from a different walk of life can sense when someone is smug and pretentious. You and I have Black, White and Latino friends who all speak the same. Its not what they say ... its how they say it. Its their demeanor and their intent. Its obvious when someone turns their hat backwards to fit in. They don't usually get slapped for what they say, but because of the fact that they had no business saying it in the first place.

I've heard women call each other bitches and hos as terms of endearment.

[Uke]

GonzoStyles

I don't want you to blame anyone or do a thing.

You entire post is full of "might's", "maybe's" and "probably's" because you are working off of your own limited knowledge of how the industry works. I didn't post the article to argue its validity. It already makes solid points that no one can refute. That's why you have to assume a lot in order to try to make your points.

How many poor people do you know, GonzoStyles? How many of them would do practically anything for $1,000,000? People go on Fear Factor all the time and eat bugs and do risky stunts for money. People sell drugs for money. Women sell their bodies for money. Poor people, or people who have lost their way due to drugs or alcohol, are desperate. You may not understand that, but record execs do. They understand that 90% of their talent comes from a background that doesn't have the financial stability or freedom to turn down seven figures just to rhyme. This isn't an excuse. Its a reality.

When a man offers artists millions of dollars to make a record, most of them don't even have an independent lawyer review the contract. Most won't negotiate because the money already exceeded their expectations. Some artists have gotten wise and attempt to own their masters and want bigger percentages of sales, but all in all its the newbies that get trapped.

No one asked you to cry a river for them, GonzoStyles. These men make millions. They don't need your compassion or pity. This article was written to show a side of hip hop that people like you never see but all to often judge without having and real facts or insight. Its amazing to me that so many people consider themselves authorities on an entire culture after only buying a few CD's.

now the evil music executives are recruiting ignorant people just to make puppets out of them, well since this has been going on for 10+ years now you would think these "victims" being forced to "Ghettotize" their music would get the idea. But they really just don't give a damn or else they would make an effort to learn about the industry they plan on making a career out of.

This has been going on since radio and records were being mass produced in the USA. Its started with Blues. Then it carried over into Jazz. Then Bee-Bop. Then Rock and Roll. Then Hip hop. If you didn't know that exploitation of artists has been going on in this country for the last 90 years or so then you really are on the wrong topic.

Most people can learn all they want, but they still have to negotiate from a position of weakness because the label holds all the cards. Some artists are special, and their talent and act is so obviously great that labels will listen to their demands because they know other labels are dying to get them. But if you are just a low-key artists who makes a lot of sense without flash or a gimmick, the interest won't be there. Therefore, the opportunities won't either. People do shop around before they sign, but many times they sign with the lesser evil if the money is still right.

The underground is indeed alive and well, but there's no real money in the underground. You may not know that, but any real fan does. Any real artist does. Its not mainstream where they get airplay. You won't see their poster hanging in Tower Records. These men do it for the love of music and that's fine and admirable. But there are still poor artists who will gladly sign on the dotted line to to get that kind of cash just to live an easier life.

But don't boo hoo for them, GonzoStyles. They are living a lot more comfortably than you.

[GonzoStyles]

Uke first off don't start assuming anything about me because it makes you look like an ass.

I am not going to go into my life history with you just to get a "Ghettocard", I can validate my opinions without it

but put it this way I can remember as a kid when crack hit my neighborhood off Tidwell in Houston and convienance stores started stocking up on
"Brillio pads"

I know what a "You buy we fry" fish market is all about Uke do you?

I remember shopping at the day old bread market with my grandmother for me my sister and my 2 cousins that lived at her house, ever done that Uke?

So am I Ghetto enough to comment on urban society in America now?


and yes there is a trade off if you decided to go independent, the odds are you wont make millions, or any of that other crap, but at least you can sleep at night knowing you stayed true to yourself instead of being a "Slave" who was "forced" to "ghetto" up his lyrics.


All the victimization of artists you talk about is avoidable thanks to digital recording technology,and creative control.

In this modern age if an artist of any genre signs away his creative control they only have themself to blame. Artists have been taking control of the means of production since day one.

Now with digital recording technology you don't need a super label just to get into a studio and get a good recording, with the internet you don't even need a distributer you can sell your music online. So don't act like you have an insight into the industry if you don't know whats REALLY going on Uke.

Your just still making excuses and I am still punching holes in them.

[treelizard]

I've heard women call each other bitches and hos as terms of endearment.

I wish they wouldn't.

Words are powerful, no matter what the intent.

One of my teacher said this to some city kids he was training once: "I am not a dog. And I advise you not to call my daughter a bitch."

[medic06]

Medic,
Despite assertions to the contrary, I find it extraordinarily difficult to even find hip hop without derogatory lyrics. The stuff that bleeps out the derogatory lyrics is just all kinds of disjointed, but it is what I tend to train to most.

That's kind of the whole point of the thread. There is positive hip hop out there but it doesn't get much play because the gansta rap BS gets shoved down everybody's throats.

[Uke]

Uke first off don't start assuming anything about me because it makes you look like an ass.

I am not going to go into my life history with you just to get a "Ghettocard", I can validate my opinions without it

but put it this way I can remember as a kid when crack hit my neighborhood off Tidwell in Houston and convienance stores started stocking up on
"Brillio pads"

I know what a "You buy we fry" fish market is all about Uke do you?

I remember shopping at the day old bread market with my grandmother for me my sister and my 2 cousins that lived at her house, ever done that Uke?

So am I Ghetto enough to comment on urban society in America now?


and yes there is a trade off if you decided to go independent, the odds are you wont make millions, or any of that other crap, but at least you can sleep at night knowing you stayed true to yourself instead of being a "Slave" who was "forced" to "ghetto" up his lyrics.


All the victimization of artists you talk about is avoidable thanks to digital recording technology,and creative control.

In this modern age if an artist of any genre signs away his creative control they only have themself to blame. Artists have been taking control of the means of production since day one.

Now with digital recording technology you don't need a super label just to get into a studio and get a good recording, with the internet you don't even need a distributer you can sell your music online. So don't act like you have an insight into the industry if you don't know whats REALLY going on Uke.

Your just still making excuses and I am still punching holes in them.

This wasn't about being ghetto, GonzoStyles. Only a fool thinks that being poor makes you qualified to discuss the business aspect of the music industry. Its about having experience in the music industry to know what goes on so that you don't have to make assumptions like you've been doing. So save your "good ole days" stories for someone interested in hearing them. I'm discussing the article.

Next, digital recording technology will never be able to compete with the money that the big labels offer. It also isn't the same quality of production that the labels have access to. And selling your music online isn't the same as having your own street team and the right connections at radio stations nationwide to have your single played in heavy rotation.

There are many underground artists who have incredible skills that wind up producing mediocre music because they do it themselves.

What are you punching holes in, GonzoStyles? Truthfully, if what you say is true then the majority of artists wouldn't be in the predicament that they are in. If it were as cut and dry as you put it, then everyone who finds themselves in these situation must be extremely stupid, despite many artists being college educated.

You can argue your opinions, but you haven't argued the message in the article. You're not even on the same page as the rest of the discussion. The article doesn't excuse anyone from blame. It points out the fact that the "Gangsta" image in hip hop is largely due to what execs feel will sell. In the end, the execs have the creative power to make music violent and and profane, and they use it.

The execs exercise the right to do this despite the protests of the artists.

People like you view anything but your cut and dry assumptions as excuses. If it were that cut and dry the problem wouldn't be as big as it is. If it were so easily solved by what you say, then why not make millions as an artist advocate, who prevents artists from getting exploited? You won't because you can't because in the end, you don't have enough knowledge. You working off of your own ideas instead of working off of the reality of the situation.

[medic06]

Horseshit.

It isn't being "shoved" down anyone's throats. People are making the choice to buy it!

Again, it's about personal accountability. If more people wanted "clean" hip hop, it would be sold in dump truck-loads. Blame the industry if you want, but supply really does follow demand.

Now you want to argue over a technicalities. . . . OK it's not being shoved down your throat.
You say you want clean hip hop, but you can't find it? Well I say horseshit to you too buddy! It's already been pointed out that it's out there.
You're being contentious for the sake of contentiousness.

[DickHardman]

its funny how blatantly some of the people on this thread are in here totally fronting about how words are powerful and whatnot when in a different thread they thought i was wrong to be offended by racial slurs and even stood up for the person using them.

[medic06]

its funny how blatantly some of the people on this thread are in here totally fronting about how words are powerful and whatnot when in a different thread they thought i was wrong to be offended by racial slurs and even stood up for the person using them.

Well, what can you say? This whole forum is steeped in hypocrisy. . . .

[darrianation]

Dick" its funny how blatantly some of the people on this thread are in here totally fronting about how words are powerful and whatnot when in a different thread they thought i was wrong to be offended by racial slurs and even stood up for the person using them.

**** you!

[Uke]

Horseshit.

It isn't being "shoved" down anyone's throats. People are making the choice to buy it!

Again, it's about personal accountability. If more people wanted "clean" hip hop, it would be sold in dump truck-loads. Blame the industry if you want, but supply really does follow demand.

I absolutely LOVE this reply. Gangsta hip hop is the most heavily marketed type of hip hop genre today, but its slowly moving towards the Southern "bling and rims" genre. If the industry execs choose what genre to market, and 80% of the hip hop they market is Gangsta rap, then how can medic06 be wrong when he wrote "its shoved down our throats"?

Lastly, when Mike Brewer wrote "Again, it's about personal accountability. If more people wanted "clean" hip hop, it would be sold in dump truck-loads. Blame the industry if you want, but supply really does follow demand", he must have forgotten that White males make up over 85% of all rap sales in the United States. That is a fact, not an opinion.

So that begs the question as to who really wants to see what images, now doesn't it? If its the consumers that lead record execs to believe that Gangsta rap is desirable, and 85% of the consumers who buy Gangsta rap are White, then I ask you who is at fault here?

In truth, most Blacks and Latinos don't need to buy Gangsta rap. Many of them have to live around people who actually do the things you hear about in songs. Most White people buy that kind of music because its a portal for them to take a look into a culture that they know nothing about, and rarely will go to experience. Its either network news or Hip hop music for them, and that's why they are so fascinated with the music.

Its nothing new. It was the same way with Blues. It was the same way with Jazz. It was the same thing with rock and roll. Music is just a portal for most people who don't live among the cultures who make it.

The humorous part about all this is that its the people who don't live among it but only are voyeurs who get their ideas through the music that have the most criticism about it ... even though they create the numbers that lead the record execs to believe that Gangsta rap is what the public wants.

That's the real horseshit.

[GonzoStyles]

Its about having experience in the music industry to know what goes on so that you don't have to make assumptions like you've been doing.

Funny you never related to us how your album was ghetto-fied by the industry Uke? Do you have any experience in the music industry?

highly doubtful. You simple expect us to take this article you posted on the recording industry as the be-all-end-all because it validates your belief that these multi-millionare artists are not responsible for the material and the image they put out. Thats Bullshit.

It also isn't the same quality of production that the labels have access to.

This once again shows you don't really have a clue about the topic Uke,
you make baseless statements to support your viewpoint. I allready mentioned Swishahouse here in Houston an Independent label and studio that is the hottest thing around America and the world as far as rap music is concerned. I wonder how their sub-par recording techniques and inadequte marketing team managed this without support from major labels?

And while "bleeding the block" helps, nothing promotes your album better than the internet if you don't know this Uke you don't have a clue as to whats REALLY going on in hip hop or music.

What are you punching holes in, GonzoStyles? Truthfully, if what you say is true then the majority of artists wouldn't be in the predicament that they are in. If it were as cut and dry as you put it, then everyone who finds themselves in these situation must be extremely stupid, despite many artists being college educated.

I am punching holes in your crybaby excuses about the recording industry and it's attempts to steer artists since its inception.

That being the case the artists should be quite aware of what they are getting into, Uke you act like these people roll through the hood and grab some kid rapping on a street corner who has no idea what goes on in the music industry. When in truth these artists have been trying to make it big for years and have no doubt heard first hand the horror storys about being too greedy and signing away creative control.
Which is basically what it boils down to. It is no one's fault but their own if they sign a contract and the only thing the pay attention to is the amount of zero's in the check.

You can argue your opinions, but you haven't argued the message in the article. You're not even on the same page as the rest of the discussion. The article doesn't excuse anyone from blame. It points out the fact that the "Gangsta" image in hip hop is largely due to what execs feel will sell. In the end, the execs have the creative power to make music violent and and profane, and they use it.

The execs exercise the right to do this despite the protests of the artists.

Do executives rap? Do they cut beats? do they hold a microphone in front of thousands of people? Your whole excuse for the poor artists who sign away artistic control is a baseless tirade because you took offense to some forum members opinions of certain artists and wanted to convince us that it is the sinister workings of the music industry that makes violent profane rap

The article claimed there was no underground on the whining quote of a has-been (Paris) and I linked to a documentary thats shows what the underground is doing right now,since you seemed to need proof other than an article quoting a bitter militant rapper who can't get a major record deal.

People like you view anything but your cut and dry assumptions as excuses. If it were that cut and dry the problem wouldn't be as big as it is. If it were so easily solved by what you say, then why not make millions as an artist advocate, who prevents artists from getting exploited? You won't because you can't because in the end, you don't have enough knowledge. You working off of your own ideas instead of working off of the reality of the situation.

Please tell me why should I be safeguarding artists? That is something they should handle on their own, you want to remove responsibility from the people who actually write, record and perform the music.
I am just telling you that is a piss-poor excuse for letting greed make you near-sighted. I dont feel any sympathy for that what so-ever so I have no desire to safe-guard rappers against the music executives.


And I never made assumptions Uke I just stated the facts.

Independent music is on the rise and still making the kind of music you claim is "forced" onto artists on major labels. Major labels steal artists from indy labels all the time but maybe you think they are "forced" into making millions

Artistic/creative control is a concept that ANY artist serious about themselves and their career should be familiar with. especially since it has been going on since the beginning of recorded music.

Are these artists signed for life to a major label?

Is the contract signed in blood?

No, these artists can finish out their recording contracts or battle it out legally if they haven't blown all their money on a new grill

Then re-negotiate, go on to another label, or start their own


the poor urban rap artists FORCED into a violent, mysogenistic image for life!

what a crock