Wtf??

[jubaji]

Untenable war? You're saying there's no way to win this war at all? Despite the fact that we have built schools and hospitals, given free electricity to the bulk of Iraqis, restored power to well beyond pre-war levels, helped them develop an elected government, gotten ridof a hateful and torturous dictator, (pause for breath) seen the Iraqis launch 44 TV networks, all uncensored by the government, create and implement their own stock exchange, trained a military over 200,000 strong (about 1/4 of what it needs to be), captured hundreds of insurgents, and given the Iraqi people a country of their own, you think there's no way to win this war?

Why don't we ask PFC Kurtz what he thinks? I believe that saying this war is untenable is a gross underestimation of our soldiers and their capabilities. The only thing that will make this war less winnable are the people back here at home failing to realize what a difference guys like Kurtz have made.

Exceptionally well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PFC_Kurtz_John]

Why don't we ask PFC Kurtz what he thinks? I believe that saying this war is untenable is a gross underestimation of our soldiers and their capabilities. The only thing that will make this war less winnable are the people back here at home failing to realize what a difference guys like Kurtz have made.

<.< wow who the hell said its untenable? Rofl thats what every country who fought us thought right befor they got their ass handed to em. To many ppl only see the news and dont see what happens country side.

[cam427]

I wonder if you condemn the expression of opposing points of view in all areas of your life?

Actually you have not opposed anything that I have said because I have not really been involved in this thread.

It was just a general observation.

I actually agree that some of the conspiracy theories sound a bit rediculous.

"bully"? I can assure you I have aquired no lunch money in any inappropriate manner via this forum.

Though your black and white thinking appears to be relatively simple minded I assume you are aware that not all bullying involves lunch money so I wont bother to respond to that statement (except with this one ).

[jubaji]

Though your black and white thinking appears to be relatively simple minded.

I'm sorry that I'm not as smart as you.

[kerambit]

Nah, not if you're going to continue with the schoolyard attitude.

See, politics isn't like your fantasy football league. It's not like monday night football where you root for your team, you hate the other team, and you make fun of the losers.

In politics, people die. Clausewitz said that "War is the continuation of politics by other means." Until recently, I always thought that he meant that war picks up where politics fails.

Now I wonder if he might have meant that war is often used as a country-internal political tool by power-hungry politicians and party apparatchiks.

Volatility, ad-hominem attacks and schoolyard insults don't solve anything. I don't know who you think you're making points with, but you're only making yourself and "your" side look stupid. You're not rich, you're just one of the patsies they've deceived into becoming a hate-chorus for them.

Most of the republican party leaders are under indictment or scrutiny for conspiracy, money laundering, lying to the American People. Get over it.

"Your" side (really the side of the megarich elite) are using torture and deathsquad tactics. Why do you hate freedom?

In five years, these people have gutted the constitution, the economy, the US military. You support them.

Why do you hate America?

Why do you support these criminals? I sincerely don't get it.

[BoarSpear]

<.< wow who the hell said its untenable? Rofl thats what every country who fought us thought right befor they got their ass handed to em. To many ppl only see the news and dont see what happens country side.

Every country that fought us? Hmm China and North Korea WON... we lost

Vietnam we lost

WW3 or the middle east is anybodies game its been on full force since 1980 btw...

you do realize we havent WON a war since we nuked the japanese..TWICE?

count the wars and conflicts before we got the bomb...now count them afterwards..we kinda got a big head...we aint won one since though....

[BoarSpear]

Nah, not if you're going to continue with the schoolyard attitude.

See, politics isn't like your fantasy football league. It's not like monday night football where you root for your team, you hate the other team, and you make fun of the losers.

In politics, people die. Clausewitz said that "War is the continuation of politics by other means." Until recently, I always thought that he meant that war picks up where politics fails.

Now I wonder if he might have meant that war is often used as a country-internal political tool by power-hungry politicians and party apparatchiks.

Volatility, ad-hominem attacks and schoolyard insults don't solve anything. I don't know who you think you're making points with, but you're only making yourself and "your" side look stupid. You're not rich, you're just one of the patsies they've deceived into becoming a hate-chorus for them.

Most of the republican party leaders are under indictment or scrutiny for conspiracy, money laundering, lying to the American People. Get over it.

"Your" side (really the side of the megarich elite) are using torture and deathsquad tactics. Why do you hate freedom?

In five years, these people have gutted the constitution, the economy, the US military. You support them.

Why do you hate America?

Why do you support these criminals? I sincerely don't get it.

well said kerambit...its amazing the how many people develop stockholm syndrome symptoms for the politicians bent on eradicating their way of life.

[Makkhatter]

We are making progress here in Iraq. I see it on the ground everyday. Comparing things over here today, to how they were when I first arrived, the changes are amazing. The Iraqi people have come a long ways. But where nowhere near done. It's like teaching children - it doesn't happen over night. But progress is everywhere. Twenty years from now, assuming we don't pull out way to early and make things worse, we'll have a useful ally over here. And the longer the keep sending terrorists to Iraq to attack us, the less they send to America where our families are.

[BoarSpear]

Twenty years from now, assuming we don't pull out way to early and make things worse, we'll have a useful ally over here.

so youre planning on your son fighting this battle as well? 20 Yrs from now maybe he can guard the very same corner you are guarding today!! be sure to carve your initials in something

[PFC_Kurtz_John]

Every country that fought us? Hmm China and North Korea WON... we lost

Vietnam we lost

WW3 or the middle east is anybodies game its been on full force since 1980 btw...

you do realize we havent WON a war since we nuked the japanese..TWICE?

count the wars and conflicts before we got the bomb...now count them afterwards..we kinda got a big head...we aint won one since though....

Well mister history book we didnt lose in Korea because the war never ended, we only said we would stop shooting for now.

[medic06]

Boar,
if you look back at some of my posts in this fourm, you'll see that I have always admitted that Iraq was a good decision because:

1. It gives us control of Iran's two major borders (along with Afghanistan)
2. It places our military in a position that can easily access any are of the Middle East
3. It allows us a strong intelligence presence on the ground
4. It places us in a sort of buffer position between Iran and Israel
5. The liberation of Iraq and the ouster of Saddam puts us in position to have a friendly Arab Muslim country in the region. The more friendly countries we have in the region, the less we have to go to war for things like oil.

You didn't have to bring up Saudi to get me to admit those things...I've said them freely all along.

you forgot . . .

6. It gives the terrorist a much closer target to shoot at, blow up, etc

[PFC_Kurtz_John]

1950-1953 Korean War United States (as part of the United Nations) and South Korea vs. North Korea and Communist China
Today, about 30 miles to the south of the DMZ, a free South Korea is preparing to play host to the 1988 Olympic games. That, in a way, is a tribute in itself.


1960-1975 Vietnam War United States and South Vietnam vs. North Vietnam
April 30, 1975
North Vietnamese forces take over Saigon; South Vietnam surrenders to North Vietnam, ending the war and reunifying the country under communist control, forming the Independent Socialist Republic of Vietnam. Washington extends embargo to all of Vietnam.
NOTE: WE THE US DIDNT LOSE! It isnt our fault that South Vietnam gave up.


1989 Grenada United States Intervention
The U.S. invasion of Grenada followed by an uprising of insurgent revolutionaries who murdered their own leaders, as well as civilians. US Army Rangers, Marine infantry units, and Navy SEALS took the islad and brought peace.

1989 US Invasion of Panama
On December 15, 1989, Noriega sought and was given by the legislature the title of chief executive officer of the government. The Noriega-led assembly declared that a state of war with the United States existed. The next day Panamanian soldiers killed an unarmed U.S. Marine officer dressed in civilian clothes. Noriega took refuge in the Vatican nunciature (embassy) in Panama, until he surrendered to U.S. authorities on January 3, 1990, and was then transported to Miami, Florida. There he stood trial, was convicted on a host of charges, and was sentenced to a U.S. prison.


1990-1991 Persian Gulf War
The U.S.-led coalition began a massive air war to destroy Iraq's forces and military and civil infrastructure. Iraq called for terrorist attacks against the coalition and launched Scud missiles at Israel (in an unsuccessful attempt to widen the war and break up the coalition) and at Saudi Arabia. The main coalition forces invaded Kuwait and S Iraq on Feb. 24 and, over the next four days, encircled and defeated the Iraqis and liberated Kuwait. When U.S. President George H. W. Bush declared a cease-fire on Feb. 28, most of the Iraqi forces in Kuwait had either surrendered or fled. I would say we won seeing as how they all ran like ...... well you know what

1995-1996 Intervention in Bosnia and Herzegovina United States as part of
NATO acted peacekeepers in former Yugoslavia
Madeleine Rees
"The US had everything going for it here,"
"It stopped the war, and set up and funded human rights initiatives."
looks like we came out on top again.

2003 Invasion of Iraq
United States and Coalition Forces vs. Iraq
Ok here is the big one.

Reasons For War

1 The United States and the world has a duty to disarm a rogue nation like Iraq.

2 Saddam Hussein is a tyrant that has demonstrated a complete disregard for human life and should be brought to justice.

3 The people of Iraq are an oppressed people, and the world has a duty to help these people.

4 The oil reserves of the region are necessary to the world's economy.

5 A rogue element like Saddam threatens the oil reserves of the entire region.

6 The practice of appeasement only fosters even bigger tyrants.

7 By removing Saddam Hussein, the world of the future is safer from terrorist attacks. (Weather it be on his own people or not)

8 The removal of Saddam Hussein would uphold previous UN resolutions and give the body some credibility.

In the end we win we got F*** face and wiped out his army.


PS: Realy its sad to see how little Americans care or even want to care about the war. I was using Yahoo to get my facts and when i looked up the current war in Iraq to get some numbers I was verry disapointed to see the garbage that is out there. 80% of the sites are nothing but B****ing and trash talking the US, Army, and Bush. Seriously people, look you all may not love it but we did the right thing. Some of you say we arnt the world police, but if you look at it we are the only country with the power to do the right and just thing. When entire towns and cities are being bombed with Bio and Chemical weapons by their own country are we just to let them and say its their problem and not ours? If anything it needs to be stoped. Im not going to say the USA is perfect but no one is. The US tries to do the right thing. We allways have seince we started out as colnies. If you look at our constatution you will see we are simply trying to do the right thing. Some one in the world needs to stand up and say hey what your doing isnt right, and at this point in time the USA is the only one with the power to back that idea. For all the people who think the war is wrong, tell me how stoping a man killing his people with Bio and chemical weapons is wrong. Do you even know what weapons like this do? They attack your body somethimes causing all your muscles in your body to contract as hard as they can. You will throw up and all your blood vessles will burst. Then after about 30 min of pure pain your muscles will contract so much you will break your own back. Not to mention the Bio weapons will eat away at your skin. Mothers will give birth to deformed babies. People will endure what to them is a life of hell. Yet we are wrong for stoping it. If anything it is moraly wrong to not do anything. To watch someone do this and not act is just as bad as doing it yourself.

[BoarSpear]

Well mister history book we didnt lose in Korea because the war never ended, we only said we would stop shooting for now.

Yeah uh okay.... whatever lets you sleep at night...we went all that way, lost all those men...and just quit for oh the last 50 years...and we are actually in a worse spot now than when we started, but we didnt lose attitudes like that are whats wrong with this country today....

[PFC_Kurtz_John]

1950-1953 Korean War United States (as part of the United Nations) and South Korea vs. North Korea and Communist China
Today, about 30 miles to the south of the DMZ, a free South Korea is preparing to play host to the 1988 Olympic games. That, in a way, is a tribute in itself.

It looks like we are on the up side of the whole thing

[BoarSpear]

It looks like we are on the up side of the whole thing

yeah okay...however you wanna look at it They see it that we invaded and they chased us out...Now they have Nukes...or claim to...but we are on the upside.