Yes or No

[medic06]

Originally Posted by cam427
So because we do not vote in the US the opinion of all foreign people is irrelivant

The opinion of the poor here WITH a vote is irrelevant.

[BoarSpear]

Cam, sanctions against a country are designed to create hardship so that the leaders of that country will start complying and end the hardship. Saddam was the one who didn't care about the Iraqi people, because rather than use his government money to take care of his people, or comply with the restrictions and conditions established by the UN, he simply redirected any and all aid to his elite class and let the rest of the people suffer.

huh sounds like New orleans....The rich certainly get richer at the expense of the common man here in America...does that mean someones gonna come save us?

Also, as far as European cities being breeding grounds, they are. You're a few hours from the Edgeware Road section of London, yes? Next time you take a trip to London, take a look around the newsstands there. You may need an Arabic speaker to understand them. There are shelves and shelves of books preaching radical Islam, there are newspapers that back terror groups, and there are bookstores littered with anti-Western violent idealism. None of these books list publisher's offices. None list authors. And the various British Intelligence services have no idea (or no inclination to share with us) who's running the propaganda machines. It's a large scale movement, this terrorism against the West, and it happens right under your noses. I am vehemently against support for any organization like that, including the idiots who sent money to the IRA in your country. But don't try to deny that it doesn't happen there as well.

Hey, you cant publish books like that in America...i thought WE had the freedom of press? How is it other countries who are our allies supposedly (make up your mind mike, did we earn that loyalty with our blood in WW2 or not?) have more freedom to publish their thoughts than we do?..where is that great freedom of speech and press i keep hearing about?

As for invading other countries with horrible dictators at their helms, I agree, there are a lot of them out there who need their asses kicked. But America is already being criticized for trying to be the world's police, so what good would it do? Why doesn't the UK step up and go help some of those countries? I don't see them rushing in either, so before you label us as uncaring, look at your own as well. Some of us aren't swayed by the media assertion that we are at war for purely ethical reasons. I think we're doing the right thing by being there, but I know that's not the underlying cause of the war. We are at war for our national security, and for resources our country depends on (and yours too). I also do not think it is wrong to go to war over resources vital to your nation's survival. The UK has done it throughout history, even being the aggressor in many cases. Hell, they tried it here in "the Colonies." If you don't think that was a war for money, you're sadly mistaken. I do not believe it is wrong to go to war to protect your nation's interests abroad if diplomacy has failed - which it clearly had with Saddam. Saddam WAS indeed a supporter of terrorism, allowing safe haven to terrorists from both Syria and Iran, he provided money to terror organizations (which we've both already said we're against), and he provided weapons to terrorists fighting against Israel. He wasn't just a bad guy. He was a bona fide threat to our national interests and security abroad. Maybe he didn't have missiles that could reach us, but he had missiles that could reach our bases in the region. He supported many of the groups that liked to blow us up through material, financial, and political means. He allowed Syrians to cross through into Iran and vice versa, and he allowed them to run weapons and drugs between them. Not to mention the fact that we all (including your government and intelligence services) knew (not thought) he had chemical and biological weapons. The fact that we've found so few of them frankly worries me a lot more than if we had found them all. I suspect a great deal of them made it out of Iraq through Syria, and into the hands of God knows who. So to answer the question you posed to Jubaji, he was a threat to the US.

Saddam was friends with IRAN? WHEN? what evidence of these claims that Saddam supported terrorism do you have?

Saddam was a secular leader. He didn't support radical Islam in any shape or form. That would be Qatar, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia etc etc etc, all of whom are our allies. In fact, Saddam's prisons were full of muslim extremists.

I agree that we ought to keep discussing this stuff, because it's great for understanding different points of view. Jubaji is up to his normal tricks, getting everyone pissed off so they forget he's a poor neglected circus creature, but that's okay. Even though he's not putting up too many solid arguments for his side here, I have a feeling we ( gulp ) agree on this topic. Please don't use that as evidence that I am wrong.

Hey man your allies are your allies...enjoy

[BoarSpear]

Sorry dude but it was nothing to do with him being a ruthless leader or the US would have done something about all of the other countries with bad leaders (there are many).

It is interesting that you talk of cities in the EU being breeding grounds for terrorists but the largest terrorist organisation in europe by far (the IRA) was funded by donations from US citizens until 9/11 when they suddenly realized what it was like to live in a place under the threat of terror. I live in Northern Ireland right now and can tell you that this is true.

Your comment about taking it to the terrorists is completely false. Iraq were no threat to the US before the invasion. I know you believe what you are saying so I am not calling you a liar but you need to look further into what is happenning rather than believing what you are being told.

Cam

HEHEHE how many irish American cops tossed a dollar in those jars supporting the IRA doesnt that mean they were supporting terrorism? good thing England didnt declare us a terrorist nation and invade us.

[jubaji]

I personally like many americans, I have travelled to America several times and spent several months in New York. .

LOL

Don't do me any favors, champ.

[jubaji]

As for the "everyone hates the US" comment. The majority of people around the world do not like the current US government. .

See "irrelevant", above.

[jubaji]

Several billion people do not need to be ready to go. Have you ever heard of 9/11. It was carried out by less than 20 angry men..

Several billion was your number. You see what has happened since then and you make your decisions.

[jubaji]

So because we do not vote in the US the opinion of all foreign people is irrelivant.

In the context we were discussing, yes.

[cam427]

I'm sorry, when did you start voting in the US? Why is it so offensive to you to realize that you are irrelevant to US policy? Hell, I don't vote in Ireland, so I'm pretty damn irrelevant in your decisions about what kind of politicians you want and what kind of policies that reflects. I don't feel slighted by that at all.

"everyone hates americans"? Gee, I wonder why I don't take your views more seriously? Go snipe from another gutter, ya whiny bastard.

When your several billion people are ready to go, you be sure and let me know.

So because we do not vote in the US the opinion of all foreign people is irrelivant. Wow, I am sorry I missed that.

Several billion people do not need to be ready to go. Have you ever heard of 9/11. It was carried out by less than 20 angry men.

As for the "everyone hates the US" comment. The majority of people around the world do not like the current US government.

I personally like many americans, I have travelled to America several times and spent several months in New York. I just do not like the current governments foreign policies. If you think that is a reaon to disreguard everything I say then there is little I can do to persuade you. In fact I ahve had many great discussions and learned many things (you may want to try that some time) from many of the american guys on this site like Mike, Boar and PFC Kurtz. You dont have to be an ignorant prick because you disagree with a persons view on something. The three guys mentioned above have all fought for YOUR right to be an opinionated arsehole.

[jubaji]

As I suspected you answered nothing (again!).

So, you want your claims of mind and heart reading to be taken seriously? You're bound to be disappointed by more people than just me.

[jubaji]

The fact that you think all non US citzens are irrelivant just shows what a stupid redneck you are. Fortunately there are some sensible guys on this site to prove that no all americans are like you. Guys like you are the reason everyone hates americans. If several billion people disagree with US foreign policy it becomes very important.

I'm sorry, when did you start voting in the US? Why is it so offensive to you to realize that you are irrelevant to US policy? Hell, I don't vote in Ireland, so I'm pretty damn irrelevant in your decisions about what kind of politicians you want and what kind of policies that reflects. I don't feel slighted by that at all.

"everyone hates americans"? Gee, I wonder why I don't take your views more seriously? Go snipe from another gutter, ya whiny bastard.

When your several billion people are ready to go, you be sure and let me know.

[cam427]

You have "proof" about 'caring'? You have "proof" about thoughts and emotions? Look, I already know you are stupid, don't belabor the point.

As I suspected you answered nothing (again!). I think it is pretty clear who the fuckin' moron is.

The "I can be a smart arse so I am obviously smarter than everyone else" trick is failing miserably arsewipe.

[jubaji]

If they care about people being oppressed then why are they not in Somalia, Zimbabwe, or any of the otehr countries where people are routinely murdered by the government forces..

Sounds like you have a 'policy' question, not an 'emotion' question. Is that right?


And if you can't answer this policy question on your own, then you are willfully stupid.

[jubaji]

I do actually have proof.

You have "proof" about 'caring'? You have "proof" about thoughts and emotions? Look, I already know you are stupid, don't belabor the point.

[cam427]

Of course you have no proof for any of that hysterical bullshit. Its just the popular emotion to display these days, isn't it?

There are people for whom opposition to the war is nothing more than one more manifestation for their own personal hate and political bias.

Thank goodness in your case you are a foreigner, and utterly irrelevant.

I do actually have proof. If the US cared about the people of Iraq then why did they impose the sanctions that caused the deaths of millions of them (many of whom were children).

If they care about people being oppressed then why are they not in Somalia, Zimbabwe, or any of the otehr countries where people are routinely murdered by the government forces.

The fact that you think all non US citzens are irrelivant just shows what a stupid redneck you are. Fortunately there are some sensible guys on this site to prove that no all americans are like you. Guys like you are the reason everyone hates americans. If several billion people disagree with US foreign policy it becomes very important.

Perhaps you can explain how Iraq were a threat to the US before the invasion since you so obviously disagree. They were a poor crippled country who did not own a missile with anywhere near the capability of reaching the US. Their airforce was destroyed. Surely since Osama Bin Laden came from Saudi Arabia you should have attacked them. Perhaps you will use the "we were defending other countries" lie but if that were the case then why do you only choose to protect some countries and not others? This leads back to the first point doesn't it?

Come on, how about you try and actually answer some questions instead of just insulting everyone.

[jubaji]

Your comment about taking it to the terrorists is completely false. Iraq were (sic) no threat to the US before the invasion.

According to you?! Well, that's relevant.