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Body Weight VS. Barbell/dumbell weight

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  • Body Weight VS. Barbell/dumbell weight

    Just wondering what you guys think about doing excercises that concentrate on lifting and controlling your own body weight ( pull ups, push ups, chin ups, sqauts, dips....etc)as apposed to lifting weights in the gym.

  • #2
    Personally I think there has to be a balance. You can throw around all sorts of impressive weights in the gym but if you can't do at least 10 dead-hang pullups and about a hundred pushups you're going to be lacking. The same if you can do thousands of pushups but can barely press 100lbs overhead.

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    • #3
      An advantage of most calisthenics is that they force you to use a lot more stabilising muscles, muscles that you will need during a fight.

      But many weight training exercises exclude these muscles, leaving them weak.

      For example, press ups involve more muscles in the torso, in order to keep it straight. But the Bench press eliminates all these as, of course, you are lying on a bench.

      You can more easily progress to heavier weights, as all you have to do is put more discs on. But you can still progress with press ups, by changing them (raising the feet, changing the Hindu Pushes etc.) And, if you do higher rep calisthenics, you get better conditioning, vital in a fight.

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      • #4
        before i started to use weights i built up a solid foundation with push ups, pull ups, leg rasies, dips etc and found that when i started to use weights i had an advantage over my friends because i had this base. i also agree with koto ryu that if you can't do at least 10 pullups and 100 pushups then you don't have much functional streagth. anyway thats my 2 cents both are good but u need a balence.

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        • #5
          I dont agree with the whole bench press thing, if your lying down you still have to use all those other muscles not just the chest, with free weights anyway, and even with a smith, pushups arent the be all and end all, chin ups I agree with but who cant do 10 chinups, cmon, I do not do any body weight exercises unless you count running and crunches, and I can do 20 chinups, dont count out weightlifting because of all these new revolutionary body weight techniques, sure they work, but I dont think they will give you as much power as weight lifting, I can only do about 25 pushups, and I in no way ever do pushups because I hate them !!!! lol, but I can benchpress over 160% of my weight (freeweight) and I bench press my body weight for 10 sets of 15 reps, pushups just arent some peoples thing, dont discount weights, they are tried tested and true.

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          • #6
            btw for good bodyweight exercises go to www.trainforstrength.com
            its got very challenging exercises and its more focused on training for functional real world streagth.

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            • #7
              Pullups build up really good functional strength in the back. If you do lever pullups, with your body parallel to the ground, those will work your back from a different angle and your abdominals and hip flexors all at the same time.

              In terms of strength, regular pushups are useless; once you can do about 12, you've got all the strength from them you can get. What they are great for is ENDURANCE in your arms, so that if you get into a sparring match, your arms don't wear out on you. If you can benchpress a lot, but only manage 25 pushups, that means you may be able to punch hard in a fight, but if you go into a prolonger boxing match, your arms will tire too easily; being able to do lots of pushups changes that.

              But you should have a balance. Learn all the handstand presses, all the pullup variations (the normal ones, the lever pullups which will make people stare , planches are good, if you get to planche pushups, people will really stare etc...) and also do all the good lifts and barbell presses, like deadlifts, cleans, jerks, and presses, bench press, THE BARBELL SQUAT, military press, etc......you can also get into things like tossing big weights around, etc.....

              Then there's kettlebells, which are different from ordinary free weights as the lifts are different. There is one kettlebell guy who can do full splits and stand in full split (or vertical side kick).

              There is so much to strength training.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Broadsword2004
                In terms of strength, regular pushups are useless; once you can do about 12, you've got all the strength from them you can get.
                What about one-handed, raised-feet, handstand, etc.? There's still a lot of opportunities from pushups. Even doing them super-slow: 30 seconds down and 30 seconds up. Boxers do all their floorwork (bodyweight exercises) after they've done everything else that day, so they do them not for conditioning but for strength gains. Many of them do their exercises very very slowly and make impressive gains from them. A 135lb boxer I knew who had done nothing but pushups once came lifting with me and managed to bench press 175lbs, pretty impressive for doing nothing but pushups that whole time.

                If you can benchpress a lot, but only manage 25 pushups, that means you may be able to punch hard in a fight,
                Even that doesn't say a lot It's all about technique that says how hard you can hit. I dunno how many pretty-boy muscleheads my buddies and I have brawled with, but needless to say they can't hit as hard as they think. Like Jack Dempsey once said, "Those big muscle guys aren't nothing but punching bags with limbs." Don't remember who said this next one, but it's relevant: "I love punching muscle boys, it's like hittin' a girl."

                Still, weight training definitely has its advantages over bodyweight exercises, but bodyweight exercises has a few over weight training. That's why I use both of em to get the best of both worlds.

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                • #9
                  True true man, I was actually thought you were just referring to the standard pushup (the "drop and gimme 50!" kind). If you mean handstand pushups, layer pushups, one-arm pushups, etc......then hell yeah pushups are great for strength and endurance.

                  As for the strength thing for punching, true again, however, you CAN develop a hard punch but still have arms that would run out of steam after a few rounds is all I meant.

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                  • #10
                    Im actually about to start putting chinups into my workout, like a lot of them , sooo ive been looking on the net for different ways and all that but they just seem to be like.. "want to learn how to get big doing chinups" and im like... well i just want to know hwo to do chinups but click here,,, then its like take __________ (insert creatine, protein, weight gainer, steroids).. and thats just retarded... all natural for me lol. The lack of pushups, doesnt bother me, when I want to be able to punch for longer i Punch the heavy bag for a long time, seems to work for me, ummmm... next point, oh any advice on chinups would be good... ummm... I dont know what all those types of crazy pushups are so I wont comment on them, uhhh... oh and its not like im using machines here, freeweights use all the stabilizing muscles too, oh and im not one of those big muscle people, I got farming muscles!!!... go peasent heritage... lol, ummm...

                    oh heres a question, do you think I should tell some really tiny kid that he cant benchpress as much sa he thinks he can, he moves it down about 2 inches and puts it back up, DISGUSTING form, but today he almost dropped 200 pounds on himself (he should have known he couldnt lift it when he couldnt have got it off support without friends help), think I should tell him and destroy his confidence/determination to lift weights and a good laugh everyday, or should I just give him the facts?

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                    • #11
                      According to Pavel if u want to get good at pull ups just do lots of pull ups. Hav a look at greese the grove.

                      If i was that kid i wouldn't want to hear that but if i was u i would still tell him because if he lifts too heavy he might injure himself.

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                      • #12
                        This may seem really dumb, but is there anything wrong with doing body weight exercises , chinups, squat thrusts, with weights attached to you?... I dont see a problem, but im not sure about this, I think it should be fine but getting a second opinion.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SamuraiGuy
                          This may seem really dumb, but is there anything wrong with doing body weight exercises , chinups, squat thrusts, with weights attached to you?... I dont see a problem, but im not sure about this, I think it should be fine but getting a second opinion.
                          I don't see why not. It is not a dumb question.

                          You can arrange your bodyweight excercises to hit strength, speed, balance, coordination and stamina - and make variations on them to hit different areas.

                          You can do calisthenics to build stamina and base strength. These are your typical excercises like pullups, pushups, handstand pushups, lunge squats.

                          You can do plyometrics to work on your general conditioning and explosive power. These are your stadium hops, jackknives, burpees, jumping jacks, wheelbarrows, firemans carry.

                          Its low tech, but effective.

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                          • #14
                            Weights and Calisthenics

                            Calisthenics should be used with Weights you can do both with similar progress but the balance will increase both sides of physical strength.Weights help with neuromuscular motor recruiting which is very important to be able to use you maximum level of strength in a fight or under stress otherwise known as pain.Now calisthenics can help cardio personally I dont agree with high reps for abs because your just eating fat and not getting stronger after awhile sure your muscles can probably handle more pain or stress but they arent going to be able to get nearly as strong as if you were to take two dumbells and row while your doing situp (very light one 5lbs-10). Also there are other things to keep in mind some people are geneticaly predisposed to have more white fibers that give strength then the red ones for endurance which kick in about after the 15-20 rep depending on the muscle being excercised.Im a personal trainer and I know one thing about the body some people function and fight without form better then those with form but some dont.That includes motivational form If you enjoy weights more then situps or pushup do low weights and higher reps at least.If you have hit a sticking point (lessen strength gains) take a week off and use rep around 8-12 with a higher weight and work up to doing 4 more higher the weight 5 lbs with the 15-20 and do your normal high reps the week after 2 sessions of this change or possibly more usually its good to chart your progress and your eating habits to.But no matter what anyone tells you if you just eat protein its unhealthy but you are going to gain lots of muscle if you up your intake of calories by 500-750 and protein by 75-100 grams but please eat vegetables.
                            P.S High Reps with weight that you increase the weight over for longer peroids of time wont build as much strength in the muscles as they well as the ligament strength and cardio strength.

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                            • #15
                              I am going to put in my two cents on this because of personal experience. As some of you know, I've been training for the Arizona Police and Fire Games for the boxing event. As such, I've been doing a lot of road work, jumping rope, bag hitting (all types) and calisthenics. I was lifting weights with my strength training regimen.

                              This was my regimen:

                              Chest:

                              3 sets push-ups at maximum reps each time (this meant about 25 push-ups).
                              3 sets dips at maximum reps each time (at most I would do about 12 dips, that has changed now).
                              3 sets Bench Press at 10 reps.
                              3 sets dumbbell flies at 10 reps.

                              Back:

                              3 sets pull ups
                              3 sets chin ups
                              3 sets t-bar rows.
                              3 sets lat bar pull downs.

                              Legs:

                              3 isometric squat for three minutes.
                              50 lunges with dumbbells.
                              1 duckwalk until fatigued.
                              step ups with dumbbells.

                              then I do my abwork.

                              However, with doing the weights, I felt that my muscles had too much bulk to them and that I was really slow at throwing my punches. This could be only because I was new to the sport and I still am. However, since I have discontinued the weight training (minus shadowboxing with dumbbells), I have seen an enormous improvement in my hand speed.

                              However, just like fingerprints, all human beings are different. We are very similar in most cases, but we all have something different about us. For me, the weight training slowed my down. That could be because I am heavier in the first place and I need to lose the excess weight before I can go to weight training.

                              You just have to find what is right for you. For me, dips pushups pullups chinups and the like seem to really work for me.

                              Matt Furey's Combat Conditioning works really well for me, too. I still have some nice mirror muscles and I have dropped a lot of my excess weight. When I first started using this discussion forum, I weighed about 230 lbs. I am now 190 and hoping to get to about 175 before April 15th, the date of the fight. I ultimately want to get down to about 150-160 (I'm 5'8" and 30 y/o).

                              But, this does not mean that lifting weights for you would be bad; it just means that at least for one person you "know," it doesn't work so well.

                              Anyway, find out what will work for you.I wish you well and hope you find what works best for you.

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