Low Fat Myth

[eXcessiveForce]

I believe that Maxx's info is generally believed and considered common knowledge in Sport's science. A search will provide many sites on the net with decent information on it.

However you are probably going to need to pay if you want actual research as not everything is listed for free on the net.

[Maxx]

That article is from a bodybuilding magazine; it's not a scientific study. And in general most bodybuilders are more concerned with form than function.

Consumption of low glycemic carbs vs. high glycemic carbs has a huge effect on weight loss. High glycemic carbs lower blood sugar level and keep you craving more carbs due to excess insulin.

The intake of High Glycemic carbs to speed muscle growth is a pretty universal concept. You can find a lot of info out there regarding it. But as EF said you'll probably have to pay for any scientific articles.

You are right about the low glycemic carbs if you look at it the right way. Because they process more slowly than high glycemic carbs you are not going to get hungry as quickly as you'll eat less. You can still gain weight if you eat too many of them. In the end a calorie is still a calorie and it's a calorie deficit that will give you results for weight loss.

[treelizard]

Okay, the research I've read says that yes you can sneak some higher glycemic carbs in after a workout but you can also use low glycemic carbs more spread out. There's also some interesting research on intermittent fasting and how it increases insuline sensitivity because of these brief fasts, in life extending researching they've done, that there can in fact be amino acid transport and uptake with no insuline change at all. And there's articles about this in the Performance Menu--6, 11 and 16.

To say that the Zone diet or other diets are just based on caloric restriction is just patently false. You can eat 2000 calories in donuts or 2000 calories in balanced meals, and there will definitely be a huge difference.

I agree that you can still gain weight if you eat too much food (of any variety) but will argue that just because you get less calories doesn't mean you will lose weight. Just talk to anyone who has ever screwed their metabolism up.

[Maxx]

Actually I've done a lot of research and expirimentation on the topic. if your maintanence calorie level is 2500 calories, you could eat 2000 calories of pure cane sugar and lose weight, assuming that it was all that you ate. That is to lose "weight". I'm not mentioning anything about the potential health problems associated with such an act or what that type of diet would do to your body composition. Some of it would be fat and some of it would be muscle. Yes, an elevated insulin level would cause the storage of some of that sugar as fat, but the energy requirements of the body would in turn burn that off if they weren't being satisfied.

You simply cannot maintain body weight if your body's energy requirements are not being satisfied.

I've worked with clients that have gained muscle and lost fat with as little as 15% of total calories coming from protein. The majority of their calories were actually coming from carbs. Some high glycemic and some low. Also keep in mind that glycemic index for a particular food is for a specific measure of the food in question. eating too much of any carb will elevate blood sugar to high levels. It has a lot to do with serving sizes as well as combining certain types of foods. Soluble fiber consumed with HGI (High Glycemic Index) foods will slow their absorption rate, thus making it easier to balance blood sugar. Proteins and fats will also slow the absorption of carbs.

Losing weight is a simple matter of calories in vs. calories out. A calorie from fat is the same as a calorie from protein or carbs... a calorie is simply a measure of energy. If you eat a certain amount of energy from a combination of the 3 macronutrients and your body still demands more, it will have to draw that energy from stored reserves... proteins and fats.

I've done some reading on the heightened insulin sensitivity brought on by fasting. If I remember correctly the metabolism drops and the body goes into starvation mode. When food suddenly becomes readily available, the body overreacts to it. In certain cases cause a life threatening reaction, but I haven't done a tremendous amount of research on that topic.

[treelizard]

It gets all complicated, as you know, because there’s the glycemic index and glycemic load and insulin index. You can eat fructose, for example, for a huge load and low index, but you’ll get almost instant insulin resistance and glycosolation of proteins (without enzymes). Or like milk which is low on the index and gives you a high insulin response. I think keeping insulin low is a good idea, not least because elevated insulin limits the release of growth hormones.

There was also a study that showed carbs have only a small effect on enhancing protein and amino acid ingestion after a workout.
(Effects of amino acid intake on anabolic process, 2002, Wolfe).

I've read sugar after workouts can lower serum GH levels and also that it can leave free fatty acids in your blood stream. Not good. Also I wonder how much excercise it takes to really use up muscle glycogen.

Finally, you should really look at the intermittent fasting studies.

Here's a couple articles posted on Art De Vany's site quoting Robb Wolf:

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/100/10/6216

http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/full/17/9/1133

P.S. Re: losing weight, versus losing fat... Fair enough, but without enough fat you won't be able to switch out of carb-burning/insulin resistance mode and into growth hormone/ fat-burning mode.

[Maxx]

According to both a dietician and a nutritionist that I spoke with yesterday (just to verify my facts and make sure that my knowledge is up to date for my clients) glycemic index is considered virtually obsolete. Insulin index can get a little complicated. In most cases GI and II (Insulin Index) are going to be proportionate, but there are certain foods that have virtually no GI but cause a considerable insulin response (Meat, fish and eggs). If you are more interested in regulating insulin it can get difficult. When you combine that with the fact that eating macronutrients in combination is going to change the GI of the carb in question. Protein and Fats are going to slow the absorption rate, so that the actual rate of absorption will not reflect the GI assigned to the food item in question.

Also fiber is going to have an effect. Certain "carbs" your leafy green vegetables will have virtually no caloric value due to the high fiber content. Soluble fiber eaten in conjunction with starchy carbohydrates will slow the absorption rate, thus changing the GI of the food in question again. During normal eating it can become almost impossible to tell how quickly your carbs are being absorbed.

Glycogen is another question. On average the human body can hold about 2000 Kilocalories if well fed. You won't burn through that in a 45 minute workout. Marathon runners will deplete glycogen stores at about mile 20. Thus the body generally burns about 100 kcals of glycogen for every mile during moderate to intense cardiovascular training.

With regards to the minimal effect of carbs on protein synthesis... yes... as you know all workouts offer minimal effects. It can take weeks, or months to see results from a workout regimen. You will not see effects overnight but over the course of months or years the effects can become very apparent.

I'm very skeptical of fasting. I've know people who fasted. As I'm sure you know, carbohydrates are the fuel for the brain. That's why low carb diets suck. You can become irritable, not be able to think quickly, plus the body will begin to slip into a state of starvation within hours of going on a fast. The metabolism will slow and the body will switch into a catabolic state, burning off muscle. I would not recommend a fast to anyone. Granted you are talking about intermittant fasting... something I know very little about, but the articles you mentioned only addressed animal studies, not the effect on humans. I'll probably continue to adhere to my personal opinion on fasting unless human evidence suggests positive results.

Your last statement kinda puzzles me...I'm not sure that I understand what you are talking about. Could you site some internet sources I could look at. Certain eating behaviors such as the Body For Life program advocate a high protein, moderate carb and low fat regime. That program in particular has provided awesome results for not only burning fat but also increasing muscle mass at the same time... and in record time.

[treelizard]

I called people too to make sure my facts were up to date so at least we're getting each other researching, which can only be a good thing.

There are really great articles on intermittent fasting in the Performance Menu, and you can download one issue for free. I'd recommend it. Issue 16 is a good one for human experiences--and we're talking only 15 hours of fasting.

And I totally agree with you on glycogen--which leads me to the question that if you're not burning up your glycogen stores, do you really need high glycemic carbs after a workout?

As far as fat, the best resource I've found for information is Weston A Price foundation. They say that saturated fat is absolutely essential in order for omega-3s to be utilized correctly.

Also if you look at the Anthropological Codex (which is a compilation and analysis of the nutritional info/macronutrient composition of hunger-gatherer diets) it indicates that fat percentage was between 28-58% (with protein between 19-35% and carbs between 22-40).

According to writing by Ron Rosedale, lower carbs and more good oils normalize elevated trigylcerides and move blood lipids toward normal...

Cordain L, Brand Miller J, Eaton SB, Mann N, Holt SHA, Speth JD.
Plant to animal subsistence ratios and macronutrient energy estimations in world wide hunter-gatherer diets. Am J Clin Nutr 2000, 71:682-92. (this is available online if you google the title, i think it's the third link down--the pdf file)

The Rosedale Diet (Hardcover) by Ron Rosedale, Carol Colman

www.westonprice.com: google "Fat" or look for "the skinny on fats"

And yes some of this research contradicts each other...

More later, I've got ten things to do before bedtime. Happy reading.