Dont wanna be bulky?

[RabidMAT12]

Hi, I was just wondering what are the best exercises to do if you want to get the muscles but not the bulk e.g. Muay thai not heavy weight boxer. Is it better to do a small amount with heavy weights or a large amount with smaller weights?
And how do exercises like pushups count?

Thanks.

[Viadante]

exercises in which you only use your body weight are excellent for this type of gain. Also, lower weight and high reps are a good idea. However, there are some studies that try to prove that only a certain amount of power can be achieved from a certain mass of muscle and that the only way to get stronger is to inevitably get heavier. But the best concept is to practice on moving your body, which will be better than bulky muscle. Bruce Lee would comment on how body builders may have a lot of muscle and power, but could they use it effectively?

[Tom Yum]

Aghhh gaining too much bulk!

I'm creeping into light heavyweight territory. I've been lifting heavy 4-7 reps for power, eating protein and continuing active cardio. Since off season, I've crept from mid-end of super middle weight and am now into the light heavy weight category (170+).

I can tell that I'm getting bigger, but man I've sparred light heavyweight, cruiser weight guys before (while weighing lower 160s) and had difficulty handling their power. I'm actually a little concerned about how I should adjust and prepare. If I move into lt heavyweight, I will be fighting guys 6' 1" and up (I am 5'10"). If I cut down to super middle weight, 6'1" is about the tallest at that weight.

I'm just an amateur with little experience. Should I keep the gains and try to adjust or cut down to super midweight? Any experienced fighters have advice about this for a hopefull?

[Tom Yum]

Aghhh gaining too much bulk!

I'm creeping into light heavyweight territory. I've been lifting heavy 4-7 reps for power, eating protein and continuing active cardio (running sessions, rope work, shadow boxing). Since off season, I've crept from mid-end of super middle weight and am now into the light heavy weight category (170+).

I can tell that I'm getting bigger, but man I've sparred light heavyweight, cruiser weight guys before (while weighing lower 160s) and had difficulty handling their power. How I should adjust and prepare? If I move into lt heavyweight, I will be fighting guys 6' 1" and up (I am 5'10"). If I cut down to super middle weight, 6'1" is about the tallest at that weight.

I'm just an amateur with little experience. Should I keep the gains and try to adjust or cut down to super midweight? Any experienced amateurs have advice about this?

[Disciple]

Muscles do not get stronger without getting larger. The difference between a body builder's and a power lifter's physique is that body builders muscles are very large and round due to increased glycogen storage capacity and capillary formation. The power lifters muscles tend to look very thick and dense due to each muscle fiber becoming thicker(Think of a thick rope made of individual fibers.)

I think your best bet would be to do power type training heavy weight at (4-8) rep range to avoid becoming too bulky.

Ideally you would pack on as much functional mass as possible and then cut your body fat to maintain the same weight. This is somewhat difficult to do.

[Thai Bri]

"Muscles do not get stronger without getting larger"

Ridiculous as it sounds, I really don't think that this is true. Many people get far far stronger without increasing their weight or their physical appearance.

God knows why. I ain't a scientist.

[Turing]

Scientist

Well I am a scientist. Unfortunately I'm a physicist and biology/physiology/bio-chem is not exactly my line of expertise. When you get stronger your either getting more muscle fiber or getting more mitochondria in your existing muscle. I believe the latter will make you stronger without getting bigger. However, I believe there is a limitation at which point you need more muscle to gain strength. I'm not sure if I'm correct, anyone here feel free to correct me.

[Tom Yum]

Originally posted by Disciple
Ideally you would pack on as much functional mass as possible and then cut your body fat to maintain the same weight. This is somewhat difficult to do.

lol tell me about it. I'm going to try and maintain my gains, whilst cutting fat. I've re-evaluated my diet as well. I'm going to try and stay at the lower 170 range and then when I get news of a fight, trim down to 167-168 within the month before.

[Lizard]

I have been improving my strength without my muscles getting much bigger, I don't know how. Unfortunately I WANT them to be bigger.

[Disciple]

Turing is somewhat correct: Muscles get larger in two ways.

1. Cell volumization(body builders)--the muscle cells have an increased capacity to store glycogen/water. There is also increased capillary formation.

2. Hypertrophy(power lifters)--each muscle fiber becomes thicker i.e. more actin/myosin filaments added. Think of a skinny rope versus a very thick one.

As for becoming stronger without getting bulky. This is possible to a small degree and to a certain limit. Someone who is new to weight lifting or has taken a long lay off cannot recruit as many muscle fibers during lifting as an experienced lifter. As this improves, their will be an somewhat of a strength increase. This is why power lifters will also include lifts in the 1-2 rep range. It does not increase muscle mass, but taxes your neurological faculties. This type of lifting should not be the focus of your program, however. The largest strength gains will come from lifting in the 4-8 rep range broken up with periods of higher reps to prevent adaptation.

This is just the stuff I was taught in medical school and under my sports med mentors. Feel free to add anything I may have missed or may be ignorant about.

[terry]

Disciple, um, don't you mean hypertrophy and hyperplasia?

[Disciple]

Sorry, I did not explain myself clearly.

Cell volumization and increasing the thickness of each muscle fiber are both forms of hypertrophy although they have different mechanisms. Think of blowing up a balloon as opposed to making a rope thicker by adding more individual fibers to it.

Hyperplasia refers to an increase in the number of cells which I was taught is impossible in skeletal muscle tissue. This concept is currently being debated though in the scientific community.

My advice to competing martial artists is to alternate power lifting cycles with body building or even slightly higher rep cycles. This will give you both increased strength/explosive power and greater muscular endurance(cell volumization-increased glycogen storage capacity). Before competitions or matches there should be a cutting cycle in which you try to drop body fat while preserving muscle tissue. This will put you in the lowest weight class possible while maximizing your strength/power/endurance.
This is tough to do, however, and requires hard lifting and even harder dieting/supplementation.

[RabidMAT12]

Physicist

I thought that since we had a physicist replying that i should add some science to this discussion. As you probably know:

Force (N) = Mass (Kg) * Acceleration (m/s/s)

Work Done (J)= Force (N) * Distance (m)

This tells us that to increase the force of your punch you need to increase your mass or acceleration or both. So in theory a martial artist who had an arm mass of 10 kg and could punch at 10 m/s/s (100N pathetic but just an example) has the same force as a boxer with arm mass 20 kg and can punch at 5 m/s/s.
Therefore muscle mass is not the only factor in deciding punching strength.
As to weight lifting muscle being put on depends on 2 things weight and distance (direction also has an effect F * d (Nm) but thats not important). Lifting a high amount of weight a few times would give you high force low distance with the low amount of weight being the opposite. So it really depends how many times you can lift the lower weight compared to the larger one (work this out by counting how many heavy weight you can lift to exhaustion and then the light weight, with rest of course, and compare the 2). This will tell you which one taxes you the most.
(This dosent really have much to do with anything it just occured to me)

[Lizard]

Yes but isn't it the damage done by the punch that is important, rather than the force?

If we say it takes 1 second to punch: Kinetic energy = half of mass x velocity squared.

First guy:

10kg at 10 m/s
5 kg x 100 = 500

Second guy:
20kg at 5m/s
10kg x 25 = 250

The first guy will hurt you more.

[Turing]

Equation?

Thats a popular debate amount martial artists. Is it force, momentum, kinetic energy, impulse, or perhaps pressure?

F*T=Change in MV

That is, force times time equals change mass times volume. That is your impulse equation. This takes into account how quickly you retract your punch which is something notable.

P=F/SA

Pressure equals force divided by surface area. That takes into account the size of the object you strike with and helps show the difference in a knife-hands, palmheel, and punch, bareknuckle or otherwise.