How many of you guys take creatine?

[hashpuppet]

how many times do we he about black belts that can't fight

Yea thats cause of all the shitty schools that give you rank for money, colleges don't work the same way.


Basically, we don't know about the long term effects of creatine yet so take it at your own risk but there are sideeffects known, people have replied with some of them, it happens to some people.

Also if you think you have great stamina then go run 10 miles an hour and tell me how long you last without getting tired.

[decypheredbeats]

Originally posted by hashpuppet
how many times do we he about black belts that can't fight

Yea thats cause of all the shitty schools that give you rank for money, colleges don't work the same way.


Basically, we don't know about the long term effects of creatine yet so take it at your own risk but there are sideeffects known, people have replied with some of them, it happens to some people.

Also if you think you have great stamina then go run 10 miles an hour and tell me how long you last without getting tired.

actually doctors are not trained to know about this kind of shit. Ask any doctor how much protien you should take and tell him you lift wieghts 5 times a week. he will say 50 grams.



Ask a doctor about AAS, he will hit you with mad bullshit propaganda.

A doctor will never recomend a non FDA aproved or illegal supplement, no matter how effective it is. His ass is on the line.

and Why would I run 10 miles in a hour? Im a boxer, grappler and powerlifter. All three of these are anaerobic sports, I have no need for hour long endurance. When would I ever fight for an hour??


I run sprints and do interval training and related anaerobic work, after a 1 mile run multiple times a week. Trust me bro, I know where I am and what needs to be done for me to improve.
I will never buy this "more muscle makes you slow" shit. If you train slow, yes. But more muscle strength makes for more available power and speed period. You just have to learn how to harness it. This myth has seriously ****ed up Martial Arts for long time.

SO tell me, do you mean to tell me cats like Tyson, Foreman, Mark Kerr, Ken Shamrock, mark coleman are slow??
Tyson and foreman both bench over 500Lbs, I can just imagine what some of their other lifts look like.

[hashpuppet]

I said 10 miles an hour, how fast do you run those miles and do you do it without stopping. Tyson and Foreman are slow when you compare them to lighter boxers actually......


It's common sense that more muscle makes you slower, it's physics, you need more force and power to move the muscle, with long term training it should be fine but a smaller guy can take the same amount of time and make himself twice as fast.

By the way what the hell are you talking about that doctors don't know about nutrition? Doctors take 8 year of college with lots of general study including nutrtion and then atleast 2 years of actual work in a hospital, i'd rather listen to them than a weightlifter who's been taking creatine for 8 years and has no sideeffects SO FAR. The guy is a kidney specialist, his job is to know how certain foods affect internal organs. Protein goes through the kidney by the way. And did you say a doctor would not reccomend an illegal supplement, yea if anyone reccomends an illegal supplement they're idiots, they're illegal for a reason, enjoy your steroids and in 5 years when you're bald, bleeding, and your testicles are the size of peanuts you can take pride from being able to bench a lot of weight.

[Sean Dempsey]

I have small testicles AND a crappy bench press.

[allswoledup]

It is common knowledge that doctors don't receive much nutritional education at all.They do receive some that is hidden in biochemistry courses but this is forgotten once they take their exams.

Some doctors are becoming versed in alternative medicine more and more since patients are requiring prevention not just treatment of exsisting problems.

I rather be as big and strong as I can be and fast as this allows than fast and no where near my strength capabilities.

Go to the philipinpo arts threads an read my posts where I took an introductory course and all the students where unable to apply the locks,breaks,baston and knife movements because I was simply to big and their reach was compromised.

Thr knife simply couldn't reach me and the locks were pointless since they couldn't apply them around my arms in the first place to even begin to try and make them effective.

I could easily break away from prayer locks that were meant to control an opponent.

I think this would be a problem for anyone who wasn't atleast decent size and strength and all it takes is a split second and a stronger opponent can have the upper hand easily,just look at all your various MMA tornements,no one their is worried about being to big or strong as long as they train for quickness as well,you

would be deadmeat going up against these guys in any less then optimal shape.This means you must have a well rounded fitness routine,strength without speed and vice versa is pointless and a recipe for disaster !

[IPON]

Heyt Hash pupett ...look I was just sharing information, I am not adovcating creatine or downing it like I stated ( I actually suggested you try it). My point was just to be educated about a topic which is why you asked the quesstion. And I am giving you differnt perspectives, I train people and if they ask about creatine I give them the pros/cons and let them make a decision. If they use it I tell them how to use is correctly.

I did not insult your friend but what I am saying is listen to people fine but what works for one may not work for another. And Yes 2 master is not a nephrologist that is what I said...that's all. He may be a kidney specialist but he is not a doctor...that doesn't mean he doesn't know his stuff ..... I don't know.

What I said about degrees was general but not untrue interms of getting a masters degree. MA was an example and simply ananalogy...again my point is you see a 6th dan impressive but what does he know?? I don't have an answer I just said don't assume someone else has all info. regarding the streroids I don't know what you are talking about...I have NEVER taken steroids, maybe I should clarify I said I have experimented meaning with creatine aminos etc. just to see if they are helpful.

Anyway, I was just trying to be helful I won't make further comments.

[hashpuppet]

A kidney specialist is a doctor who specializes in kidneys............

[IPON]

Hey I am not trying to argue......Look if your friend has a medical degree and in addition has 2 masters degrees OK fine you didn't state that. If he only has 2 masters degrees he is not a medical doctor. A kidney specialist could be a researcher that focueses of academic studies...how am I supposed to know what you mean. A kidney specialist that has a medical degree is either a endocrinologist or a nephrologist (most likely the latter). And you are correct a nephrologist will generally deal with patient which are in renal failure or comprimised, they deal with conditions like nephritis and protienura due to poor renal function, dialysis etc. But they are definatley not experts on nutritiion beyond the basics. The average nephro/endo you ask about creatine......they will say oh you mean creatinine as this is the main indicator or renal function (both serum creatine levels and calculated creatine clearance).



Like Ripley you can believe it or not

[hashpuppet]

i said he was a doctor in the first post
sorry, i didn't know i had to list all the details of his life, but it's different for him because he is also a nutritionist, he just specializes in kidneys right now, maybe i was wrong when i said he had 2 masters degrees, i suppose it would be right 2 say 2 medical degrees, he went to college for 4 years and then received 2 degrees in medical school, i suppose i confused master and medical

by the way, there's 1 big bodybuilder in my jiujitsu classes. He's probably like 6'1 and 250 pounds, this guy is really buff and probably in his 20's, his face is very droopy and wrinkled and his face looks like he could be in his 40s or older, he takes creatine.

[allswoledup]

I have small testicles AND a crappy bench press.

LoL, why not do a cycle,seems like it wouldn't hurt any ?

[Disciple]

Hello, I am also a doctor. My specialty is not Nephrology, but I thought I should clarify how a person becomes a Nephrologist or any other medical specialist. The progression goes 4 years of collge, 4 years of medical school, 3 years of residency, then 3 years of fellowship training. The 3 three years of residency training qualify a doctor as a general practicioner (family practice or internal medicine). The additional 3 years of fellowship training qualify a doctor as a nephrologist, cardiologist, gastroenterologist, oncologist, neurologist, etc.) There are specializations even beyond these. The pathway for surgeons and the various surgical specialties is slightly different. You do not receive 2 degrees in medical school. There are a small number of combined residency programs that will certify a doctor in 2 specialties. These obviously take longer to complete. As for the creatine issue, most doctors do not know alot about it because the long term effects are not yet known. You can be assured that if in the next 10-15 years, patients start showing up with renal insuffieciency secondary to creatine use, it will become a hot topic of study and research in the medical community. As for your testicles shrinking from taking supplements, that is seen in endocrine dysfunction secondary to steroid use, creatine is eliminated through the kidneys, these are two different pathways. My advice is to take creatine at your own risk, the effects of prolonged use may not be seen for 10-20 years.

[IPON]

HP - it just wasn't clear it seemed that you were saying he was a doctor because he has 2 master degrees (I could have misunderstood also). But even with an MS in nutrition...I would say listen to what he says ..do your own reserch and if you are really cool with him you have a good resource for questions.

Regarding the guy in the gym it could be lots of things or nothing some people just look old for thier age.....I would bet probably a current/former roid abuser though.

[Tim Mousel]

Here's a good, relevant thread:

http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/showthread.php?threadid=4960

[Silent Giant]

I believe that creatine and other supplements are safe if people read the labels and take precautions when using them. I don't use them because they cost too much and my personal goals don't involve them.

[decypheredbeats]

Originally posted by hashpuppet
I said 10 miles an hour, how fast do you run those miles and do you do it without stopping. Tyson and Foreman are slow when you compare them to lighter boxers actually......


It's common sense that more muscle makes you slower, it's physics, you need more force and power to move the muscle, with long term training it should be fine but a smaller guy can take the same amount of time and make himself twice as fast.

, yea if anyone reccomends an illegal supplement they're idiots, they're illegal for a reason, enjoy your steroids and in 5 years when you're bald, bleeding, and your testicles are the size of peanuts you can take pride from being able to bench a lot of weight.

aright whatever, someone whose smaller and faster then me is not in an advantage, there punch will lack the power mine has, and when I eventually properly connect, they are done.

I train for speed and power. I do lots of plyometrics and interval training. I know lots of guys that are alot smaller then me I am still faster then.

and that last comment was incredibaly ignorant. I knoe people in their late 50s that have done multiple cycles and are fine. If you knew anything about streiods you would knwo the most common side effects are from estrogen trying to adjust the high levels of testosterone back done. So therefore you take anti estrogens such as chlomid or nolvadex for post cycle therapy, this will clear up any reoccuring post cycle hair loss, gyno, deepened voice etc
as for testicle shrinkage. HCG shots will take care of this easily.
Please, enough with these unknowledgable post upon things you know nothing about. Ive never done steriods, and probaly never will, But I know enough not to bash things based on purely what "someone else told me"....