Snap in the punch???

[Kosh]

...also id like to pick up on what Stigma said

Every mental process has a physical component and every physical experience has a mental component. So you cant really seperate the mental from the physical. It would be like trying to seperate where from when.

[adacas]

[Stigma]

Yea that was too deep, even for me....

I think he was refeering to my arguement about "focusing" beeing a part of punching(or kicking) regardless of wether you do it on a concious level, or if its something you just do automaticly.

But then again, i might be wrong

Time for me to:

[adacas]

Its funny how alot of people trash the idea of chi (or its other martial art versions), but alot of people have sworn by it for a very very long time.

Its funny because people for a couple thousand years swore that bloodletting was good for you.

BTW chi has actually been recorded (by scientists) in some shoalin as heat moving around their bodies.

I would like to see that evidence and test those scientists for controlled substances.

[Thai Bri]

Ironic how the mystical East seeks verification from the science of the West. And usually gets it in the form of flawed experiments.

Why doesn't the mystical East ever seek to verify what Western science does?

Mainly because Western science plainly DOES do what it says, and does not rely on faith instead of facts.

[grubbogoppoly]

yup. .The stuff in the west does exactly what it says it will do. .Make you groggy, constipated and irratable

[Thai Bri]

True.

[grubbogoppoly]

Oh yeah. .and forgot one of the other things.. Mask the REAL PROBLEM!!

[Thai Bri]

Correct. All we really need is a pinch of powderd Tibers Penis and our Chi lines fiddled with.

[grubbogoppoly]

Tigers penis??
You are supposed to use sheep. Come one learn your stuff before you talk

[huey]

Ironic how the mystical East seeks verification from the science of the West. And usually gets it in the form of flawed experiments

actually the east cares not what the west believes and ironically, the west wishes to prove the east methods to be hog wash and mysticism every chance they get so they will blame the findings in such a case as a flawed experiment.

Why doesn't the mystical East ever seek to verify what Western science does?

Mainly because Western science plainly DOES do what it says, and does not rely on faith instead of facts.

sure and tainted could not be used by the same people that put out AZT and phen fen huh?
c'mon it is all about the money. if there were some way to bottle chi you don't think the pharmacuetical companies world wide would hesitate for a second to tell the world of the newest and best wonder drug to ever be invented?
why do you think the u.s has an recomended daily allowance that is too low in vitamins to correctly maintain a healthy immune system? (not saying we invented it or that other countries don't have an rda but i don't know that they do)
if obesity is one of the worlds highest killers than why is that r.d.a. the same in percentages, although lower in amounts, as it is for cows and pigs? how man skinny cows have you seen?
the money. if you can afford it you have medical insurance (costs you money), you get sick, you go to the doctor (costs you money), you have to get drugs (costs you money).

western medicine has tried to discount every alternative that may undermine their idea of treating the problem instead of curing it.
chiropracters still have a hard time being recognized as doctors in the u.s. even though their results cannot be argued.

[Kosh]

When people cant explain things using current science they tend to lable them with words like 'mystic' or 'energy'. Most of the time modern science steps in and gives these processes a scientific basis and a modern facelift...or just defunks them.

I think Eastern mysticism has remained out of modern sciences' magnifying glass (for whatever reason). Thats not to says that it will one day be disproved or proven. I belive that there is a scientific basis for chi etc, just we dont understand it - not a great deal of research has gone into it after all...compaired with things like hair die or viagra. Perhaps it doesnt need a scientific formular or equation behind it - perhaps its fine the way it is.

Plus noone has ever scientificly disproved it. Absence of evidence isnt evidence of absence.

[Thai Bri]

But it isn'rt evidence of presence either.

Anyway, if Chi could do what Viagra can do, their'd be alot less fighting in the world anyway.

Apparently.

[adacas]

There are a lot of good things that came out of old "mystical" medicines and herbs and what not. The problem is that many of these came out of the idea of magic and religion. Chi is usually tied in with religion. Take aikido for instance. Many old aikido teachers still employ their religion with their art as they emphasize chi. Its not too different than say a martial arts group teaching christion ideals while training. I remember a story of how the chinese made birth contraceptives out of a whole list of bizarre things and said it was almost magical and that it used chi or whatever. When it was broken down they found that one of the ingrediants was human urine. Apparently some of the hormones found in the urine acted the same way the hormones do in birth pills. Western science is based on test and theory. If it doesn't work get rid of it. But alas yes greed does play a large part in the process nowadays. What do you expect when all of the major research centers are owned by large corporations. Also lets not forget those "natural" products that are sold on the market without being tested by the FDA. Just because its natural and it has been used for thousands of years in some third world country does not mean it works or it won't affect you health negatively. Cyanide is found in nature. I'm sure its good for you then. I say scrutinize it before you put it in your mouth. This works in more than one way for some of you. hehe

[Kosh]

Thats all very true.

Ill try to illustrate my point with an example...

A guy punchs and he hits however hard.
He punches again, this times using chi techniques or whatever and punches harder.

(I know this is very simplified but that doesnt matter)

A mystic would say that some mystical energy is being tapped...if scientists looked into it they may find a particular neuro chemical mechanism behind it. Just because they are yet to find the latter doesnt mean that there is nothing their and chi is an illusion.

My point really is that wether you believe in mysticism or not doesnt matter because the latter might be always just out of our explanational reach.