Wing Chun or Shaolin?

[Thai Bri]

I dont know what to take Wing Chun or Shaolin? both look verry effective. Can anyone give me some info on both? thx

And do you know what folks? He posted this in 2003. Yet by 2004 he was prclaiming Cheungs Wing Chun to be the best thing ever! Coz he'd know, right?

By 2005 Cheung's WC was crap compared to some other guys WC.

Tameo, what will be the best thing ever in 2006?

[gabbah]

Oliver, I think one must take into consideration how long it takes to become effecient to measure how good or bad an art is.
Wing chun takes far too long compared to thaiboxing for instance.

[Oliver]

Ufc...

...is not like a real fight in any way.

No matter how free from rules it may be, the UFC guys are still competitors in a competition and will not hurt one another in gruesome ways if not necessary. I've seen enough street fights to know they're different, the average criminal bully will poke you in the eye or kick you in the groin just for fun. He may even be armed. And the mental attitude will be different as well, when you know someone is actually trying to kill you. It's different, period.

I respect your opinion, Thai Bri, but I also respect that of the doormen/policemen that I know. Most of them do not find high kicks or muscle-demanding techniques very practical when faced with a violent criminal. They prefer throws, pushes, takedowns, and focused techniques that do not require overwhelming strength. They feel that Wing Tsun (Leung Ting branch) has equipped them with just that.

As for weighing in the time-aspect; well, this will depend on your willingness to put in the time and effort necessary. If you think it's worth it, Wing Tsun is good. If you don't, do something else.

I never said Wing Tsun will suit everybody (no art does), I simply pointed out that it is far from as bad as many of you seem to think. And I stand for that.

[phenom]

thai bri and tameo you both are as bad as girls why do you both continue on with this constant bickering each to their own thai bri you seem to have a decent grasp on realism what works what doesnt.There are some decent practitioners in wing chun hard to find though and tameo mate your lost maybe martial arts of any kind are not for you what you say in your posts always contradicts some other thing prior.Good luck to you anyway

[Thai Bri]

Oliver - Of course high kicks are not practical. Who said they were? Not me. As for not using muscle? Thats part of the comfort zone that smaller and weaker people live in. Look at each and every combat sport there is. They have weight limits. Now why do you think that is?

Of course a smaller and weaker man can win, but his other attributes has got to dramatically make up for his lack of size and strength and, of course, give that very same fighter another 50lbs of functional muscle..... do you think he'll be more effective or not?

Wing Tsun tries to give itself this reputation as an art that doesn't need size or strenght. It was even invented by a woman, so it must be true, right?

Well, get this. Where are these smaller people in any verifiable fight reports? They only "win" in secret back yard brawls that were either vastly exaggerated or didn't take place at all.

[bbbb]

Wing Tsun tries to give itself this reputation as an art that doesn't need size or strenght. It was even invented by a woman, so it must be true, right?

Well, get this. Where are these smaller people in any verifiable fight reports? They only "win" in secret back yard brawls that were either vastly exaggerated or didn't take place at all.
__________________

That is, of course, the question of all question's.

?!

[Oliver]

You are correct...

...about combat sports, but from what I've seen over the years I think real fights are a lot different. And they are only verifiable if you have witnessed them, which I have. Plenty. They sure didn't look like anything from the UFC.

You may or may not believe this, but still say Wing Tsun is not as bad as you think. Just as you write, if a smaller person fights a bigger one he must compensate with skill. That is the whole idea behind Wing Tsun.
In many combat sports it is forbidden to use a lot of these skills and you often wear protective gear. Also, a sport is a sport and no one wants to kill the other. Hence the need for weight classes.

I really do not believe that I can take this much further.
The last ten years has taught me that Wing Tsun can indeed be made to work quite well in a real situatiuon, and until I see evidence to the contrary
I will continue to think so.

Note that I do not think badly of Muay Thai or any other art, I simply state that Wing Tsun is workable although it takes some time to learn how to use it well.

[hanuman]

wing chun isnt bad at all, its a great art, looks impressive but in my personal experience, it was awful i actually felt bad for the guys, we were having a discussion one day at my old job and i over heard these two guys talkin about how great wing chun is and new techniques they learned, and what not, so i was interested and was like can u show me something? and boy were those punches FAST! so i was like cool. do you guys wanna spar? and they looked at each other and laughed. i mean seriously laughed and put me down with jokes. so i was like fine whatever and was about to walk away when they were like fine we warned you. so i got anxious and was like cool lets go. so anyway the first guy came flailing at me with what i guess u call chain punching? and i just moved a bit to the side, clinched him and elbowed, HUGE CUT, second guy saw and was pissed as hell and screamin he was gonna kill me and he came flying at me too with some crazy manuver and i just right hooked him. dude's jaw broke. and im not even huge at all. but this guy stood up to me with his chin out. i couldnt resist. anyway, in my personal experience wing chun was not useful and only got me fired from a job. and they were also saying how they knew soo many techniques and how they could counter one punch with like a bajillion different other techniques. the 2nd guy must have launched like 90 techniques before he even got close to me, i couldnt understand why he did that. anyway i just used 3 manuvers and beat two guys who grew up learning wing chun while i trained in muay thai for like 4 months.

[EmptyneSs]

wing chun isnt bad at all, its a great art, looks impressive but in my personal experience, it was awful i actually felt bad for the guys, we were having a discussion one day at my old job and i over heard these two guys talkin about how great wing chun is and new techniques they learned, and what not, so i was interested and was like can u show me something? and boy were those punches FAST! so i was like cool. do you guys wanna spar? and they looked at each other and laughed. i mean seriously laughed and put me down with jokes. so i was like fine whatever and was about to walk away when they were like fine we warned you. so i got anxious and was like cool lets go. so anyway the first guy came flailing at me with what i guess u call chain punching? and i just moved a bit to the side, clinched him and elbowed, HUGE CUT, second guy saw and was pissed as hell and screamin he was gonna kill me and he came flying at me too with some crazy manuver and i just right hooked him. dude's jaw broke. and im not even huge at all. but this guy stood up to me with his chin out. i couldnt resist. anyway, in my personal experience wing chun was not useful and only got me fired from a job. and they were also saying how they knew soo many techniques and how they could counter one punch with like a bajillion different other techniques. the 2nd guy must have launched like 90 techniques before he even got close to me, i couldnt understand why he did that. anyway i just used 3 manuvers and beat two guys who grew up learning wing chun while i trained in muay thai for like 4 months.

this story is such bs.

[jubaji]

this story is such bs.

Good call!

[Thai Bri]

[QUOTE=Oliver Just as you write, if a smaller person fights a bigger one he must compensate with skill. That is the whole idea behind Wing Tsun.[/QUOTE]

But the skills they teach only work against other Wing Chun practitioners....

[shen lao]

Don't Limit Yourself To One Approach. Study As Many Conceptual Frameworks As Possible. Fighting Sucks. Focus On Growing As A Person. Remember Anything Will Work Under The Right Circumstances. Adapt And Evolve.

[hanuman]

i apologize for hurting Emptyness and Jubaji's fragile sensibilities on wing chun, i was giving a personal experience on a public forum. i guess wing chun doesnt teach humility. again, i apologize, didnt mean to offend anyone, but attacking someone else's comments on a public forum makes no sense. (a sensible argument or discussion i understand) but there was really no need for that. I bet you also believe because you have more posts on a forum on the internet you are more experienced than me right? maybe yes, maybe not. but no need for that Emptyness and from what i've read so far on the chinese fight arts forum everyone is stuck in their ways with no open mind to anything else no wonder bruce lee decided to go his own path.
Adios to the chinese fighting arts forums

[jubaji]

i apologize for hurting Emptyness and Jubaji's fragile sensibilities on wing chun,

I don't think you hurt anyone's feelings. You wrote a BS story that at least a few people just don't buy, that's all.

[EmptyneSs]

it seems like his feelings were hurt the most, considering he just proclaimed that he is leaving the chinese arts forum because nobody believed his lame story.