Wing Chun or Wing Tsun?

[Thai Bri]

Thai Bri there's no need for your stupid remarks in every thread about WingChun. Your one year in WingChun means shit, you think you know everything from one lousy year of training in WingChun, the truth is wingchun is hard mentally and not everyone can keep going hard without quitting. Its an extremely good and verastile martial art.

Another misconception about what makes a "good" martial art - the idea that it must take a long time to become effective.

Of course, the opposite is true. The better the fighting art, the SHORTER time it takes to become effective. The opposite view is put forward by idiots, or charlatans who happily relieve you of your money for many a year.

One "lousy" year of training in Muay Thai, or BJJ, or Combatives would make you a formidable fighter indeed. Ten lousy years in Wing Chun won't.


Jun Fan - I accept what you say about rules. Without them the whole fight becomes a different ball game. But knees aren't that easy to kick. How many knee kicks were effective in early UFC's? None.

WC has a multitude of techniques. yet another misconception.....the more techniques, the better the art. Wrong again. The fewer techniques (as long as it has a broad application), the BETTER the art. Boxers have only three basic punches (straight, hook and uppercut). There are may different ways to apply these though. And, because they only have three techniques, they bvecome very expert with them. The more techniques you have to learn, the less effective at each technique you become.

[Jun Fan]

First of all, I never said I could easily defeat a boxer. I have no illusions about stepping into a boxing ring and beating a good boxer under their own rules. I'd have to be something very special, and I won't pretend I am. But do you honestly believe that under a no rules situation I couldn't exploit his knees with my feet?
As for the 'rigid' Wing Chun stance used in form training, anyone who thinks this is how you should stand while fighting deserves to get battered. It's simply a way to train your base without the wide classical stances, but it's not for combat. I'm sorry if in your entire ONE YEAR of Wing Chun your were taught this way, but maybe it was divine intervention designed to piss you off.
Another thing, please don't assume that I'm speaking 'in theory'.
I've had some friendly exchanges with boxers, and sparred with Thai boxers and Jujitsu exponents, and have found Wing Chun to be pretty effective, and I've even managed to pull off some of the textbook trapping.
Sorry Thai if this too seems patronising, but I try to be consistent....

[Hot Sauce]

According to Leung Ting WingTsun is soft. Although there are different interpretations made by his students in the organisation and outside. Like Emin Boztepe's EBMAS

[RuskiRonin]

Thai Bri there's no need for your stupid remarks in every thread about WingChun. Your one year in WingChun means shit, you think you know everything from one lousy year of training in WingChun, the truth is wingchun is hard mentally and not everyone can keep going hard without quitting. Its an extremely good and verastile martial art. Now to the actuall thread, from my understanding VingTzun is Leung Ting's "Modern" and "Self-Defense" commercialized version of WingChun which also includes belts and ranks. Im assuming they are much harder then other WingChun because theyr trying to appeal to a bigger public ( with all this advertising...) But im just guessing. I know they distribute their weight on both feet when rotating, unlike the original WingChun which keeps one leg free.

[Thai Bri]

Thai Bri, don't be such a fascist!
This 'patta cake' idea of yours just shows how little you know about Wing Chun.
I assume your referring to Chi Sau, and I agree that if anyone goes into a fight expecting to link arms and play Chi Sau they will get battered. But Chi Sau is NOT sparring, and anyone who sees it as sparring (ie. you) has completely missed the point. It's just an exercise, and a very useful one at that. Besides, what advantages does a boxing have over Wing Chun? If both were of equal skill in their respective art, the Wing Chun exponent would either end the fight by kicking the guys knees out, or trapping his hands. Boxers only train one or two of their weapons, Gung Fu trains all seven.
And as for the grappler, an accomplished Wing Chun exponent is very hard to take to the ground, once they've mastered their footwork and redirecting incoming energy, but then again, if the grappler's really fast, maybe he'll go down. It all depends on the person.
You can't just put styles into pidgeon holes. Stop being so naive Thai Bri, closing your mind is one of the best ways to stunt your growth as a person, let alone a martial artist....

You patronising twat. I have oopened my mind. Thats why I studied Wing Chun for a year. It was after that time that I opined that it hadn't got enough effective training methods to make it wirth my while. I have studied Karate, different forms of Jiu Jitsu, Thai Boxing, JKD, Wing Chin, Taiho Ryu Jitsu, Combatives and other reality based sysems. You talk in theory. I talk from practice.

There is no way the rigid vertical stances of the WC could cope with the fluid and powerful two handed onslaught from a Weestern boxer. WC trains to defend against WC. That is only one of their fundamental training weaknesses.

WC is one of those arts that wins "secret" competitions. Big claims with no verification. Boxers do it for real.

And whats this about "all seven" of your weapons? If you're talking the parts of our body you can strike with, then there is a few more than seven. Yes, boxers only train the two, and the system has inherent weaknesses because of it. But they are not weaknesses that patta-cake play boys can exploit.

Take you WC into any boxing gym, and tell the instructor how you'd easily defeat his fighters with your WC. But phone an ambulance first, as within the first 2 minutes you'll probably need one.

[Hot Sauce]

Well Wing Tsun is associated with Latosa escrima........

Ohh Sorry that line was for Thai Bri

I practice WC and never saw this taugh in classes..... but WT teaches some kind of ground grapling and the (in)famous "antigrapling" techniques.... I may be wrong but I have serious doubt this was taught by Yp Man.

I don't remember which linage that adopts the kickboxing "jumping", I didn't mean all.

Mass learning or mass earning? You may not take the grades but will you learn everything then?

YOu can still follow the syllabus without taking grades.

Well I would be more than happy if my WC would allow me to defeat old shaolin monks ....

Hehe Beware, the shaolin monks are evil.

[krys]

stick to topic, please.

Well Wing Tsun is associated with Latosa escrima........

Unlike some WC styles, WT hasn't picked up stuff from other styles like jumping around like a kickboxer.

I practice WC and never saw this taugh in classes..... but WT teaches some kind of ground grapling and the (in)famous "antigrapling" techniques.... I may be wrong but I have serious doubt this was taught by Yp Man.

Also there are student-programs in WT developed for mass learning. WT is also a more expensive to learn if you want to take grades, but you don't have to.

Mass learning or mass earning? You may not take the grades but will you learn everything then?

Wing chun was developed to defeat the shaolin monks, while WT is a more modern style, according to me.

Well I would be more than happy if my WC would allow me to defeat old shaolin monks ....

[Jun Fan]

Thai Bri, don't be such a fascist!
This 'patta cake' idea of yours just shows how little you know about Wing Chun.
I assume your referring to Chi Sau, and I agree that if anyone goes into a fight expecting to link arms and play Chi Sau they will get battered. But Chi Sau is NOT sparring, and anyone who sees it as sparring (ie. you) has completely missed the point. It's just an exercise, and a very useful one at that. Besides, what advantages does a boxing have over Wing Chun? If both were of equal skill in their respective art, the Wing Chun exponent would either end the fight by kicking the guys knees out, or trapping his hands. Boxers only train one or two of their weapons, Gung Fu trains all seven.
And as for the grappler, an accomplished Wing Chun exponent is very hard to take to the ground, once they've mastered their footwork and redirecting incoming energy, but then again, if the grappler's really fast, maybe he'll go down. It all depends on the person.
You can't just put styles into pidgeon holes. Stop being so naive Thai Bri, closing your mind is one of the best ways to stunt your growth as a person, let alone a martial artist....

[Hot Sauce]

stick to topic, please

Unlike some WC styles, WT hasn't picked up stuff from other styles like jumping around like a kickboxer. Also there are student-programs in WT developed for mass learning. WT is also a more expensive to learn if you want to take grades, but you don't have to. Wing chun was developed to defeat the shaolin monks, while WT is a more modern style, according to me. Leung Ting changed the spelling for his style to WingTsun because he didn't want WT to be accociated with other linages of WC because he believed that WT was very different.

[krys]

I think it is a trademark now they are also associated with escrima..... I went to one of their schools once (I was more interested in practicing escrima), the atmosphere wasn't, in my opinion very good, a lot of ego in the air and the instructor claimed their style was the best, that their escrima could also beat any other filipino martial art and so on......

Haha.... I didn't tell them I already practiced filipino martial art (for two years)....
we did an exercise where the student was supposed to defend with a stick against the instructor who hold two swords....
I was new there and didn't know I shouldn't attack but just defend so when I felt the instructor was about to strike I hit him with my stick on both sabers (he was on the point of delivering a double attack and hold them close together)..... the unthinkable happened : he dropped both blades on the floor to my surprise....
I didn't come back......

[Thai Bri]

not all the time...u may think so...but i think that more people think not...

Really? Leaving behind what actually would happen........ Western Boxing has a massive following all over the world. Almost every body with access to a TV has heard of it and seen it. Same again with Wrestling (yes, that fixed fighting...). Yes, millions have heard of Kung Fu. But the vast majority have little knowledge to it, and wouldn't even know there were different styles.

Wing Chun? The vast majority of people in the world would have to guess at what that was.

So, more people do not believe that WC would beat boxing or grappling. As most people in the world haven't even heard of it.

Now, lets get back to what WOULD actually happen. The WC guy would patta cake away with his little girl powder puffs and the boxer would knock his head into ext week. Or the WC guy would try his ridiculous "Anti Grappling", and eat dust just prior to being choked out.

I don't know. Why kid yourselves? WC has a part of the puzzle to offer. But only a small, very limited part.

[IPON]

Hi
I don't know what you guys base your opinions on, anyway WingTsun is a registered trademark. Wing Chun is the name of all styles within Wing Chun, Ving Tsun is the chinese (canton) name for Wing Chun.

H.S.

Wing Chun (kung/gung fu) Wing Chun Kuen, Ving Tsun, Wing Tsun, Wing Tzun, etc. Yes there is slight philosophical variations but all are basically the same in thoery, forms, dummy and weapon techniques. Some instructors teach a hard and some softer it depends on the instructor. I have seen the forms practiced at a snails pace and hard and crisp niether is incorrect.

But I agree look at each school and make sure they focus on street defense, WC is not like other MAs it really is only for fighting and should be traininedthat way. Also it is easy to learn the forms but the instructor should not push "hey I can teach all forms and weapons in 6 months" if that happens walk out the door. The complexity of WC comes from its simplicity

Regarding Moy Yat, it was just a reference , at least in the US he used the spelling of Ving Tsun before most.

If wing Tsun is actually trademarked I would be suprised, but I don't know. If it is my opinion is the same it really depends on teh instructor.

my 2 cents

[m.artist]

I too think that theres not much difference, but many proponents of each will claim some kind of superiority.

But, on the whole, a good Boxer and/or a good grappler will tear them to pieces anyway.....

not all the time...u may think so...but i think that more people think not...

[Hot Sauce]

Hi

I don't know what you guys base your opinions on, anyway WingTsun is a registered trademark. Wing Chun is the name of all styles within Wing Chun, Ving Tsun is the chinese (canton) name for Wing Chun.

Some say that Wing Chun and WingTsun are like day and night. From my own experience I have noticed that most of the concpets and the forms remain the same, but some parts have changed. Wing Chun is mostly a hard style while WingTsun is a soft style. These opinions are based on the Simon Lau's Wing Chun linage and Leung Ting WingTsun.

My Advice to you would be that you should try both and then decide.

[Thai Bri]

I too think that theres not much difference, but many proponents of each will claim some kind of superiority.

But, on the whole, a good Boxer and/or a good grappler will tear them to pieces anyway.....