Wing Chun or Wing Tsun?

[bartjam]

Hell yeah a WC student with enough training could flatten a boxer without even breaking a sweat.

Oh really? Look mate, I think this is why people in combat sports and MMA dismay WC. All these rhetoric and arrogant statements are bad. If you talk with experienced and tough WC fighters they will tell you that you do break a sweat to defeat good boxers. I like WC and I train it, but let's stop doing mythology about it. And let's cross-train and spar, instead of saying "we COULD flatten this and that"...

cheers

[LittleDemon]

That's why you can't compare boxing with WC.



Again I have to say that you can not judge a whole style when you only trained with three instructors, that probably had the same teacher, from the same lineage. WC isn't just few lineages, it's a lot more. WC is the name of all WC linages in the world. Thai Bri has the right to judge the lineage he trained in, but not the rest.



I have never said that WC is the best style and it can defeat all other styles. I'm just pointing out that you can't just say things like "his blows will put the WC guy to sleep", it's like saying that Boxers are better than WC practioners. And I do have the right to defend the style I am training.

Hell yeah a WC student with enough training could flatten a boxer without even breaking a sweat. Sorry guys but that's the reality of it Kung Fu has more ideas behind the logics of human physics and how to become more able to reach our full power and beyond that then any other style ive come across.!

[IPON]

1. Again, I have to say that you can not judge a whole style when you only trained with three instructors, that probably had the same teacher, from the same lineage. WC isn't just few lineages, it's a lot more. WC is the name of all WC linages in the world. Thai Bri has the right to judge the lineage he trained in, but not the rest.

2. I have never said that WC is the best style and it can defeat all other styles. I'm just pointing out that you can't just say things like "his blows will put the WC guy to sleep", it's like saying that Boxers are better than WC practioners. And I do have the right to defend the style I am training.

1. We can agree to disagree. My point is that Bri, whether right or wrong, DID give WC a chance by going to 3 instructors and was not satisfied. So I can respect his opinion from his experience, though I may not completely agree with his general conclusions

2. That last part was not directed at you HS it was just a genral note to ourselves as practicioners not to become complacent with our style. The disease can effect any style and the central theme Bri states is the issue of hard realistic training. If we are not doning that we are doing a disservice to our respective MA and more importantly ourselves.

[Hot Sauce]

Yes I understand tha, agree and stated that as well. I am regferring to you stating that WC is just concepts. If it were just concepts the actual techniques would not be that important. I am clarifying your statement.

Ohh sorry, I missed that

[IPON]

The techinques can't be applied the way they are supposed to be if you don't understand the concepts in WingTsun

Yes I understand tha, agree and stated that as well. I am regferring to you stating that WC is just concepts. If it were just concepts the actual techniques would not be that important. I am clarifying your statement.

[Hot Sauce]

WC is not just a bunch of concepts, while there is a conceptual "thinking" aspect. But that is no differnt than other MAs.

The techinques can't be applied the way they are supposed to be if you don't understand the concepts in WingTsun

[Hot Sauce]

Umm no flame , but this sounds silly ALL sports have rules. wreslters/grapplers don't need hand skills becuase they are on the ground Kick boxer - kick so I guess opunching isn't that important.

That's why you can't compare boxing with WC.

I must say I have to agree with Bri, well at least support his opinion. If someone studied for one year of WC and after that went to 3 differnt instructors they have a right thier opinion.

Again I have to say that you can not judge a whole style when you only trained with three instructors, that probably had the same teacher, from the same lineage. WC isn't just few lineages, it's a lot more. WC is the name of all WC linages in the world. Thai Bri has the right to judge the lineage he trained in, but not the rest.

I am exaggerating slightly, but I do think we should stop being defensive about our style and more realistic.

I have never said that WC is the best style and it can defeat all other styles. I'm just pointing out that you can't just say things like "his blows will put the WC guy to sleep", it's like saying that Boxers are better than WC practioners. And I do have the right to defend the style I am training.

[IPON]

Boxers train three basic blows. Straight, Hook and Uppercut (though there are variations of course). They also bob, weave and cover.

Now, add up all the WC punches, bil jee, knife hands.... elbows, knees and kicks...... and then ALL the many blocks and parries.......and all the variations of each of them .... And you have an art that does NOT train just a few techniques.

Perhaps, but you can use the same agrument for any MA (MT, BJJ or any combatives, MMA etc) barring maybe the "alive" training issue, when you compare WC to other MAs the foundation is simplicity/economy. Could a boxer beat a WC stylist sure and that boxer could also beat Hungar, BJJ, MT, JudoEtc. If the boxer hit the grappler first KO, grappler get the shot goodbye. So it is a matter of hands boxer are solid with thier hands, but WC strikes are good as well and their are more weapons

[IPON]

WT is basically just concepts thats why there are different interpetation of it

WC is not just a bunch of concepts, while there is a conceptual "thinking" aspect. But that is no differnt than other MAs.

[krys]

...........

[IPON]

Boxers train techniques aginst other boxers. Therefore they don't need more techniques. Boxing is a sport with rules

Umm no flame , but this sounds silly ALL sports have rules. wreslters/grapplers don't need hand skills becuase they are on the ground Kick boxer - kick so I guess opunching isn't that important.


I must say I have to agree with Bri, well at least support his opinion. If someone studied for one year of WC and after that went to 3 differnt instructors they have a right thier opinion.

What is happening - is that we are not being honest and perhaps somewhat hypocritical as this is why TKD is critisized.

WC guy: our style is great you just did not go to the right school

student: But I went to 12 schools

WC guy: Well go to 8 more schools you will find the right one

student: But what about the instructor

WC guy: well yeah those instructors are bad but the there are some that are good.

I am exaggerating slightly, but I do think we should stop being defensive about our style and more realistic.


just my 2 cents

[Hot Sauce]

Saucey - I know all that. But his blows will put the WC guy to sleep before your theories come to fruition. As for the Tha boxer? Well, who knows? At least they train properly! UNLIKE WING CHUN

So the boxer will knock the WT guy without any resistance whatsoever? A kick between the legs could stop any boxer. A front kick could keep the boxer from coming into range. A tan sau could also work as well as a pak sau. To defend against a boxer is one of the first things that we practise against and keep practising when we train in WingTsun. Do you even know how a WT training is like?

If you already decided what to believe then there is no point in discussing this. You write this and that but you don't write why you think that way. It's like claiming you are a lady without any real evidence.

A fast muay thai low kick will take down any boxer that has no defense against it.

[Thai Bri]

Saucey - I know all that. But his blows will put the WC guy to sleep before your theories come to fruition. As for the Tha boxer? Well, who knows? At least they train properly! UNLIKE WING CHUN

[bartjam]

Wing Chun (kung/gung fu) Wing Chun Kuen, Ving Tsun, Wing Tsun, Wing Tzun, etc. Yes there is slight philosophical variations but all are basically the same in thoery, forms, dummy and weapon techniques. Some instructors teach a hard and some softer it depends on the instructor.

actually, from my personal experience, there are differences even within EWTO (Leung Ting WT). Some teach chi-sau starting with a lot of forward pressure along with slow movements, separating 'poon sau' into 2 sequences. Others start teaching chi-sau insisting on relaxing the arms, loosesness, speed, both hands and more free.
Some teachers want you to quickly by-pass chain-punches to perform a throw or elbows/knees, others insist more on chain-punches (a flurry of).
Salih Avci (ex EWTO) insists also on groundfighting, whereas the typical german EWTO technician teaches almost no groundwork.
I think the best one is the one that... suits you. It's very important to practice against wallbags and pads and then to do scenario-training and sparring. Otherwise, WT becomes useless, and a full contact sport would be much better.

[Hot Sauce]

the clip shows two kickboxers/MT fighters. Has it anything to do with wingtsun??

Fight 5 Mixfight -85kg, Pro 2 x 5 min Nic K-Osei (DK) vs Marco Merodio (NL)

How do you know that? There were three fighters from the Martial Arts Alliance in the latest Viking Fight. One of them was Nic K-Osei. He is a WT practioner and a WT instructior if I I'm not mistaken. He has 1 TG so he has finished half of the whole WT concepts system. I think he trains at the WT center in Copenhagen. Anyway the video doesn't show "pure" WT cause there are rules in the Viking Fight. WT is basically just concepts thats why there are different interpetation of it. If you watch carefully he uses one or two vertical fist punches to knock out the other guy.