Wing Chun - an overview of its training methods and effectiveness.

[Hot Sauce]

How can the fight end if you do not go to the ground without a ko?

I'm talking about self-defence. The fight ends when you can get out of there without the attacker wanting to follow you or can't.

There are many things that can happen. I feel down a hill and had to use dirty kenpo strikes to the grown from the ground while grappling to win. I had the disadvantage of fighting up the hill (sand pit fight). You may trip over somthing or somone. You may lose balance or footing humans are not perfect. You will not get a ko on every opponent. You really need to train for all aspects of fighting rather than only stand up. If you knock the guy on the ground from a punch you wanna keep going don't ya? Learn how to mount and pound them with elbows or what ever you preference is. To be honest many of my fights ended on the ground except for the kos. I was nice and walked away. Even if you ko somone does not mean they won't get up and attack again. Good luck with pure stand up on the street. If you believe that then you never faught. There are many x-wrestlers out there too. You never know what you will face.

I agree with you, but as I said we do train groundfighting, it's one of the five fighting distances we are training. But we don't train grappling, we train against it, anti-grappling or whatever they are calling it. I for one wouldn't like to, for example, put a triangle choke or armbar bar on the attacker. What can I do from thoose positions? Choke him until he faints or die? Break his arm? Wait for the police to arrive if there are others "spectators" who might have called? Watch when the attackers possible friends kick me? Wait until the attacker take out a possible hidden weapon? Wait until he claps on the ground so you will release him? I would rather get up if I can, if not, attack him as fast as possible with everything I have, elbows - knees, and then get out of there when the first oppurtunity arrives.

[jubaji]

Trapping, never heard of in my WT school.

Are you sure you are enrolled in a WT school?

[Hot Sauce]

[QUOTE=jubaji]And you can fight stand-up without moving your arms...
QUOTE]
So..? what's your point? I don't get it, sorry.

btw, "I weren't prepared"?!

typoes, You should be prepared , that was the answer to your post.

Listen you idiot. What if you both fall to the ground. It is one of the most common things that happen in a real fight.

Durrrrrrrr

Idiot? And you are a lousy police who can't solve conflicts without resorting to namecalling?

If you grapple standing.

OK HS Bri trained for one year going to every available class and then 2 other schools and you have for 4 months and you feel his conclusions are wrong

mmm.. his conlcusion for the specific linage he was training a year in are well founded. The term Wing Chun is the collection name for all linages, like Kung Fu is for all chinese styles therefore you can't use the term Wing Chun when reviewing a linage without mentioned the linage he trained.

Seriously, are you living in HK, if not then you are wasting your time with a crap instructor.

I'm no living in HK. There are pretty good WT instructors outside HK, most of them live in Europe. I live in Gothenburg, Sweden.

double hand chi sao is not sparring you are correct but it should not be "civil". single hand yes that is civil but not double this is the foundation of the style.

Regarding the trapping I don't know how you can practice Chi sao and not have trapping Maybe it is different with WT

I haven't started with chi sao yet, hope to begin with the CK form soon. So I can only tell you what I know.

Different instructors have different ways of teaching the chi sao sections. There are big differences between the WC linages. Also there are chi sao drills with no forward pressure at all, some with force vs force. Mostly it depends on the instructor and the training partner how "civilised" the training is.

Trapping, never heard of in my WT school. I've read an article at the www.martialarts.dk about the common myths of WT and that there are trapping in WT is one of them.

If there are trapping in the chi sao drills they are probably a part of the exercise.

You are correct fighting and SD and not the same. But what you are wrong about is WC is most certainly for fighting not SD. It is used for SD and not fighting which is fine I am not advocating beating up someone anytime you feel like it, but the creation of WC was to make a fighter and IMHO the training should be as such.

I was refering to WT. Like in the civil version of Krav Maga, WT first teaches self defence. Later on as your keep training, it will be more for fighting. For example the testing of the "live" fighting skills comes first in the 12th student grade examination where it is 3*1 min full contact sparring and some other things you have to do.

[Tiger Claw]

"A How many want to fight on the ground? How many want to fight standing up? ."

Ppl who like to take you down to the ground. Many ppl do. g/l on the streets. Most fights are actually taken to the ground.

[Thai Bri]

I can hit harder than ANY WC punch in the whole world.

Mind you, so can any half decent amateur boxer from the age of about 14 up.

[Tiger Claw]

How can the fight end if you do not go to the ground without a ko? There are many things that can happen. I feel down a hill and had to use dirty kenpo strikes to the grown from the ground while grappling to win. I had the disadvantage of fighting up the hill (sand pit fight). You may trip over somthing or somone. You may lose balance or footing humans are not perfect. You will not get a ko on every opponent. You really need to train for all aspects of fighting rather than only stand up. If you knock the guy on the ground from a punch you wanna keep going don't ya? Learn how to mount and pound them with elbows or what ever you preference is. To be honest many of my fights ended on the ground except for the kos. I was nice and walked away. Even if you ko somone does not mean they won't get up and attack again. Good luck with pure stand up on the street. If you believe that then you never faught. There are many x-wrestlers out there too. You never know what you will face.

[guy incognito]

Speed and power

A wing chun punch can have a lot more power than a tkd or kickboxing punch and a lot more speed. Yesterday i was sparring with a intermediate wing chun practitioner and he almost dislocated my jaw with a wc punch that wasnt even really hard. As for speed,William Cheung made a world record at 8.3 punches per second using wing chun punches and each punch had about 200 punds of pressure.

Tameo is absolutley correct.All 8.3 punches had the force of the 200 pounds If one punch regidterd below it the test was started again.Everyone who says the wing chun punches are weak(not refering to u tameo)consider this.I can push a punching bag a long way with absolutley no impact force.Or i can hit it with lots of impact and not so much movement of the bag.If you dont believe me try wipping a pei sao at a bag as fast as u can and listen to the sharp noise at impact.

[jubaji]

I think if you are really good at fighting standing then you wont get taken to the ground. Its really hard to grab a wc practitioner's hands and going for the legs would result in getting kicked in the face.

You should change your shirt. There seems to be a big bullseye painted on your back. Good luck in the real world (should you ever get there).

[Tameo]

I do not understand what you mean there are no blocks

You cant really call them blocks they are more like deflections and redirections.

[IPON]

I've been training Leung Ting's Wing Tsun in an Alliance school for about 4 months so I'm still a beginner.

It takes about 5 whole years of hard training with a good and high ranked instructor to learn the whole WT system. This is only possible in Hong Kong from what I've read.

OK HS Bri trained for one year going to every available class and then 2 other schools and you have for 4 months and you feel his conclusions are wrong

Seriously, are you living in HK, if not then you are wasting your time with a crap instructor. There are over 100 repies to this post I don't completely agree with Bri but again I can understand his frustration. And these excuses are part of that frustration

There are no blocks in Wing Chun, but I know what you mean .

I do not understand what you mean there are no blocks

Chi Sao is not sparring. It's just a drill to improve your sensitivity. In the beginning it is, as you said, very civilised..

From what I've know there are no trapping in WT, perhaps there are in WC?

double hand chi sao is not sparring you are correct but it should not be "civil". single hand yes that is civil but not double this is the foundation of the style.

Regarding the trapping I don't know how you can practice Chi sao and not have trapping Maybe it is different with WT

I agree that real fights can go on the floor, but fights and self-defence are not the same thing. WT is for self-defence. ?

You are correct fighting and SD and not the same. But what you are wrong about is WC is most certainly for fighting not SD. It is used for SD and not fighting which is fine I am not advocating beating up someone anytime you feel like it, but the creation of WC was to make a fighter and IMHO the training should be as such.


No Flame just my 2 cents

[Tameo]

I think if you are really good at fighting standing then you wont get taken to the ground. Its really hard to grab a wc practitioner's hands and going for the legs would result in getting kicked in the face.

[Thai Bri]

[QUOTE=Hot Sauce]hehe, yeah yeah ....we all know that.
There are better ways than to "grapple" standing. Going to the ground wouldn't be the best thing to do in self-defence. If you want to learn self-defence, which Wing Chun is all about, then learn a Martial Art that do a lot of stand up fighting.[/QUOTE


Listen you idiot. What if you both fall to the ground. It is one of the most common things that happen in a real fight.

Durrrrrrrr

[jubaji]

twisting my words, thats pretty low.....



I never said I weren't prepared, I said we didn't grapple. You can stil fight on the ground without having to grapple.

And you can fight stand-up without moving your arms...














btw, "I weren't prepared"?!

[Hot Sauce]

twisting my words, thats pretty low.....

If you don't know, shouldn't you be prepared?

I never said I weren't prepared, I said we didn't grapple. You can stil fight on the ground without having to grapple.

[jubaji]

I beleive that... Also I've read somewhere that... . I don't know... .

And you hang your safety on such certainties...?