Wing Chun - an overview of its training methods and effectiveness.

[Ghost]

Ghost,

Thanks for the comment. My name is Dave Blackley and I teach at the University of Nottingham.

I see from your profile that you are London based, whilst I haven't seen everything in London, I was impressed with the attidude and training done at Kevin Chan's Covent Garden club.

If you are ever up my neck of the woods then drop me a message and I would be glad to invite you to train.

excellent, thank you very much

[UKSifu]

Ghost,

Thanks for the comment. My name is Dave Blackley and I teach at the University of Nottingham.

I see from your profile that you are London based, whilst I haven't seen everything in London, I was impressed with the attidude and training done at Kevin Chan's Covent Garden club.

If you are ever up my neck of the woods then drop me a message and I would be glad to invite you to train.

[Ghost]

Have you never heard of 'Shaolin Football'?

Seriously though, this is where systems are diluted. Wing Chun has its specialist area i.e. close, from contact and has training methods to develop this e.g. Chi Sau. Unfortunately this can lead to the misconception that this is all the system involves. There is far more to Wing Chun than just this area; a rounded practitioner must understand how to earn the right to fight at that distance and what to do when things go wrong. Therefore he/she must train in a way that reflects this as surely must all martial artists.

Most martial arts have something that sets them apart and will emphasise this in their training; they become ineffective when that is all they train. Unfortunately that is exactly what many Wing Chun and other Martial Arts clubs do.

i like the way you post, do you mind asking me where you teach, i would potentially be interested in learning from you. no ego and all that. if you dont want to post or pm that over the net i understand.

[UKSifu]

Have you never heard of 'Shaolin Football'?

Seriously though, this is where systems are diluted. Wing Chun has its specialist area i.e. close, from contact and has training methods to develop this e.g. Chi Sau. Unfortunately this can lead to the misconception that this is all the system involves. There is far more to Wing Chun than just this area; a rounded practitioner must understand how to earn the right to fight at that distance and what to do when things go wrong. Therefore he/she must train in a way that reflects this as surely must all martial artists.

Most martial arts have something that sets them apart and will emphasise this in their training; they become ineffective when that is all they train. Unfortunately that is exactly what many Wing Chun and other Martial Arts clubs do.

[Thai Bri]

Don't worry about SmallThought - he has an apt name.

Guys. Each style will have certain things in common. We all have pretty similar bodies, and they only move in certain, finite, ways.

But people have devised different martial arts styles. They involve different training methods, and different techniques.

To claim the name of one style, yet clearly use the methods and techniques of another, is counter productive and useless. What next? Someone claiming to train and use Wing Chun in a tennis competition?

[UKSifu]

Red Rum,

Ignorance is bliss... and you're one happy mother fucker!!!

What a strange comment to make, what did you disagree with?

[SmallThought]

Red Rum,

Ignorance is bliss... and you're one happy mother fucker!!!

[Red Rum]

Its that old chestnut again...... At my club we prove Wing Chun works! We train like Kickboxers and BJJers......

Thai Bri, you seem to think that all martial arts train the same way - ie MT guys all train the same way, BJJ guys train the same way etc

This is not the case. I found a local MT club where they do an hour of fitness before doing any pad work/sparring etc (which means about 30mins of real training)

The MT school I train at doesn't do much fitness (basic warm up and then straight into the pads).

Like in wing chun - I have seen schools where fighters aren't allowed to make any contact with each other. In Kamon it is full contact and people go as hard as they can handle

It doesn't matter whether this way of training is similar to any particular style - it is still wing chun.

You might have to ask yourself what defines wing chun for you as you seem to have a problem with this. And don't come back saying something like 'a bad art with silly little punches'. It is a genuine question - are you looking at methods of training or particular stances or particular drills?

I don't have a problem with wing chun schools that incorperate things like nunchakus (as most American schools do) or escrima. It doesn't matter whether the stance is not 70% on the back leg, or whether the forms are the same as other schools. The fundamentals of wing chun (the principles, formwork, punching styles, chi sao) are really what defines wing chun for me

In the world of MT and TKD I have seen numerous different ways of doing things. One TKD school did grappling and clinch work as part of its syllabus - would you say that that style was not TKD?

If a MT style didn't use elbows would you say that it wasn't MT?

Or what if a BJJ person used a punch? Would you say that he/she wasn't practising BJJ?

If you go back 200 years I expect that no wing chun system there looked the same as any that exists today. This is exactly the same as any other martial art

[UKSifu]

We train like Kickboxers and BJJers......

Perhaps it would be more correct to say that some Wing Chun clubs train how they should.

Incidently there are many Kickboxing clubs that don't, we have all seen the trend towards kickboxing as aerobics and the emergence of kickboxing and even boxing clubs that never spar. BJJ clubs usually train hard and for combat but how many BJJ clubs train outside their rules these days? There is usually a distinction between what has become sport BJJ and BJJ for MMA. Even in MMA there are those that do and those that use it for the workout. In many amature MMA bouts there are no head shots (so the dilution begins).

I think it is fair to say that some MARTIAL ARTS clubs train for combat i.e. they are 'Martial' and some are not.

[Thai Bri]

Its that old chestnut again...... At my club we prove Wing Chun works! We train like Kickboxers and BJJers......

[jubaji]

In a street fight your not going to try and takedown an apponent, or even try and submit him because youll get your head kicked in my his mates. So what if Wing Chun doesnt cover many floor techniques... the floor's not a place you want to be in a street fight. We are tought the best ways to get up and also attack whilst on the floor. We are also tought open hand techniques such as strikes to the throat, and various other strikes that are banned in MMA. .

...............next.............................

[Red Rum]

In a street fight your not going to try and takedown an apponent, or even try and submit him because youll get your head kicked in my his mates. So what if Wing Chun doesnt cover many floor techniques... the floor's not a place you want to be in a street fight. We are tought the best ways to get up and also attack whilst on the floor. We are also tought open hand techniques such as strikes to the throat, and various other strikes that are banned in MMA. I dont think people take this into account when assessing wing chun as a fighting style. .

yes, do remember though that whilst you don't aim to go to the floor as a wing chunner, sometimes you are dragged, pushed or punched to the floor

Basically, you cant judge wing chun on a video of a load of spotty men prancing around tickling a punch bag. And i understand that people have had bad experiences from bad instructers, but if you look around you might actually find a really good club that will teach you a lot. The art, if tought correctly, is actually a really well developed and practical system.

I think the trouble is that there are very few good clubs around
My friend went to Australia recently and could not find one decent school
I think the UK is lucky as you have the likes of Kevin Chan, Alan Orr, James Sinclair and many others who train and teach wing chun in practical, useful ways

Roy Fretwell is extremely experienced in wing chun, but he also practices many other arts which he is also exceptional at.

I find many wing chunners blind themselves to their art - you need a good working knowledge of the other arts to help your wing chun progress

[Grixti]

Not a problem. It bothers me how often what is essentially a very good Martial Art is misunderstood by those who claim to be able to teach it.

I agree. Ever since i joined this site i have seen so many posts and videos of people knocking wing chun as a style. But i have been doing it for a few months now and already find it very useful and have learned loads. In my lessons at Kamon we do a lot of fitness and pad work, along with all the usuall sensitivity drills.

My sifu (Roy fretwell) also mixes in takedowns and holds every now and then, and we have done lessons on arm and joint locks. We even have people who also practice styles (other than wing chun) at the club who contribute other moves from these styles for us to use. Sifu may also show us which Wing Chun technique to use to counter these attacks. The sessions are well rounded and very effective. After only a small amount of training i feel like a more compitent fighter and the training has even got me through a few hostile situations.

One of the best things about my wing chun training is that mostly all of the techniques (Not including the sensitivity exersizes) can be applied to real life situations. Even where MMA and BJJ would fail. In a street fight your not going to try and takedown an apponent, or even try and submit him because youll get your head kicked in my his mates. So what if Wing Chun doesnt cover many floor techniques... the floor's not a place you want to be in a street fight. We are tought the best ways to get up and also attack whilst on the floor. We are also tought open hand techniques such as strikes to the throat, and various other strikes that are banned in MMA. I dont think people take this into account when assessing wing chun as a fighting style.

Basically, you cant judge wing chun on a video of a load of spotty men prancing around tickling a punch bag. And i understand that people have had bad experiences from bad instructers, but if you look around you might actually find a really good club that will teach you a lot. The art, if tought correctly, is actually a really well developed and practical system.

[UKSifu]

Not a problem. It bothers me how often what is essentially a very good Martial Art is misunderstood by those who claim to be able to teach it.

[Thai Bri]

That was pretty interesting. And written without the usual defensive insults.

Thanks.