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  • William Cheung/Emin Boztepe

    This thread is to clear up some bs about the boztepe/cheung fight. The article was too long so its on 2 posts.

    The Germany Incident:
    Ten years After

    Written by Marty Goldberg
    Interview by Russ Urquhart

    10 years ago, what many consider to be the most degrading crime ever committed in martial arts history occurred in Cologne, Germany.
    Grandmaster William Cheung, of Traditional Wing Chun, had been asked to take time out of his busy seminar schedule to give a special two day seminar in Germany. Always happy to accommodate people, Grandmaster
    Cheung added the two days, unknowingly stepping in to a detailed plan set up by Leung Ting to defame him. The end result was an illegally distributed and highly edited video clip that wound up as an addition to Leung Ting's video tape Dynamic Wing Tsun, and did nothing more but to further hurt the image of Wing Chun Kung Fu.
    This article, composed of interviews with the Grandmaster done over 1994-95, will explain for the fist time in the pages of IKF, Grandmaster Cheung's explanation of what went on that day in Cologne. Also for the
    first time in print, a detailed account of Leung Ting's four stage plan for the Germany ambush that was recently exposed by another senior student of Grandmaster Yip Man's that resides in northern Europe.


    At the time of the Germany ambush, there was much turmoil going on within the Wing Chun family as to who had seniority, who was most qualified, etc. The general public was exposed to this through letters back and forth between many of the seniors and juniors, that appeared in this magazine as well as others.

    GM Cheung: "Well, many many years prior (to the incident), Leung Ting and I were on speaking terms. But, I think it was just some misunderstanding or something. And also, the other...there was a lot of question and answer back and so on, on the magazines. Relating to who's seniority, and who's more qualified. know, it never was in my mind that he would try something like (the Germany ambush)."

    The missunerstanding in question is a result of two pieces of misinformation. One was an incorrect interpretation of one of Grandmaster Cheung's letters to state that he would "fight anyone, anywhere, anytime".
    Those knowledgable in tradition, know that you can not challenge a senior.
    One of the first things taught in any Kung Fu is that no members of the same family should fight amongst themselves, and secondly to respect your seniors.
    The second misinterpretation was an incident that occurred in New York, several months before the Germany ambush. Leung Ting was giving a seminar in New York on his art Wing Tsun. Unknown to Grandmaster Cheung,
    several of his students had chosen to attend this seminar. Leung Ting wanted a volunteer to help him demonstrate his superior reflexes. He chose one of GM Cheung's students, who happened to be wearing a World Wing Chun Kung Fu Association (the governing body of Traditional Wing Chun) t-shirt. The student managed to get through Leung Ting's guard and slap his face a couple of times. One of Leung Ting's bodyguards immediately jumped in, several other of GM Cheung's students jumped in to help, and a large confrontation occurred, until one of GM Cheung's students finally calmed the situation down. The event was not planned, and later upon hearing of the disturbance that occurred, GM Cheung severely reprimanded the students who had taken part.

    What Actually occurred in Germany

    GM Cheung: Several months later, somebody asked me to organize a seminar in Germany for Traditional Wing Chun.The person who asked it, doesn't practice Wing Chun, so he teamed up with a Wing Chun instructor that
    had a school there. So they organized two days, Saturday and Sunday.

    Russ: Now the seminar that they asked you, was this part of kind of what you're doing now, this was a set of seminars you were doing, and someone said we want one in Germany?

    GM Cheung: Yah, yes.

    Russ: Had you been to Germany before this?

    GM Cheung: No.....yah, I've been there once before, but it was just on tour.

    Russ: Did you have much of an organization or a lot of Traditional Wing Chun people in Germany at that time?

    GM Cheung: No, not one single person. It was just someone that came out from the blue and said "Look, let's do a seminar in Cologne". Before I went to Germany, I was warned by a friend to keep out of trouble with the
    law there because they dealt barbarically with foreigners, putting them in jail for months without even questioning them if they broke the law. This was a fact that stuck in my mind. Also, as I was only in Germany to do one seminar, I did not obtain a work permit, so I knew if this was discovered I would be in a lot of trouble and probably be detained there for a long time.
    On Saturday, the seminar began at 11am, and the organizer, Augustine Yiu was late to pick me up. By the time I arrived at the university basketball stadium (gym) where the seminar was to take place, the participants were already inside. We were approached by two people, a photographer and a journalist, from a German martial arts magazine who said they wanted to interview me during the break. They wanted some photos straight away and asked me to change in to my Kung Fu suit and slippers.
    I complied and they took some photos of me in various poses. Because things were running very late, I didn't have time to change back to my normal track shoes and outfit.
    It was time for the seminar to start and there were almost a 100 people there. So I started with some warm-ups, light warm-ups, Wing Chun punching, and coordination drills. So after about fifteen or twenty
    minutes, I sort of went around to check everybody's movements. So, one chap came up with a couple of other guys walking behind him. One of them introduced himself as Emin Boztepe, a student of Keith Kernspecht. He
    was holding an issue of Combat Magazine in his hand that contained a copy of an open letter which I had written to Lok Yiu, Leung Shung, Tsui Shun Tin, and Wong Shun Leung some time ago. He wanted to ask some questions about what I had previously said in the article. So I said, "Look, you just
    read it, it's very clear". He said, "No, no, no, I want to challenge you."
    I said although he did not have the seniority, by all means I would humour him after the seminar. But let's please do it after. And then I just walked away and didn't take much notice.
    When I started the second sort of technique drill, he came over again, and I noticed there's about 10-15 people walking behind and around him. And as soon as he came up, they went and formed a circle around us. And he said, "I want to fight you now." And I said, "Well, that's different. You said you wanted to spar and now you want to fight." I said, "Let's do it after class." And he began mumbling something, and I said, "Look, you know, I
    granted you the fight after the class. And strictly speaking, you're not even in my seniority." So I walked away, but I knew he more or less was going to try something. So after I walked away, the third step he rushed in and threw a round punch with his right arm.

    Russ: What did you think when this happened? Had you ever been in a situation like this where you're teaching and someone had done this to you before?

    GM Cheung: No. In the exact same terms, when I first came to New York (in 1983), in the seminar, they always want to test this and test that.
    I always give them a chace. But this one, I knew it was different because he had a whole group of people. When the second time he came up, there's another 14-15 people with this time I noticed. So when I started
    to walk away, the circle had been formed. They sort of put their arm up, so that the other students could not get close. I had a German interpreter standing next to me, and as it happened, someone put him in a headlock and pulled him back behind the circle. And I knew it wasn't one person at that moment, though I didn't know what the numbers were. So, you know, he just jumped in and threw the punch and then I swung around and shot out a Bil Sao (thrusting arm), which stopped his sucker punch. At the same time, I front kicked him. It was always in the back of my mind, if I hurt somebody it will involve the law and it will be so complicated.
    So I more or less kicked just to push him away. But because I was wearing the Kung Fu slippers, and the floor was polished timber and very slippery, I slid away on impact. That was the other thing in my mind, that is why I wanted to do it after the class (besides the reason that it was not proper to interrupt other people's time that they are paying good money for), that way I could change my shoes. Boztepe rushed in again throwing punches furiously, so I sidestepped. I did the Jut Sao (jerking arm) and Huen Sao (rotating wrist) to diffuse his punches. Then I used Pak Sao (push block) to control his elbow. Because the floor was so slippery, I wound up behind him. So I put him in a headlock, because my intention was only to restrain him, not to fight him. Then I thought for a moment I was going know, might as well poke him in the eye and finish it right there. He was struggling like a wounded mule because he had no countering technique against the headlock. Because of the slipperiness of the floor and my shoes, I was sliding around like I was on roller skates. At that time, I started slipping, and then he fell as well. He was more or less lying on top of me. Then he was sitting on my stomach, and tried to throw a few punches which I blocked with Bil Sao's to the elbow. Then I arched my body so he was trying to balance more or less, and then I kneed him a couple of times. After that, somebody called out, Boztepe got up and ran away. And as I got up, then I saw at least 20 people run out from the gym. Somebody said that they had video cameras and regular cameras.

  • #2
    Russ: Did anyone try and do anything?

    GM Cheung: No, because they already formed a circle. And also, I knew at least some of them had weapons. When they formed the circle, that's when I got some indication from their belts that they had something there.

    Russ: By weapons, you mean guns or?

    GM Cheung: No, they were armed with knives or something. See, and only during the last month or six weeks when I talked to another Wing Chun -- modified Wing Chun -- instructor, and he told me there's no way they would let me win, because they would come one after one after one for five or six times. If I beat up one, the other one would jump in straight away. And then another one, and another one. And then even after five or six, then the whole lot would jump in. There's no way they would let me win.

    Russ: So was he saying that he knew this was going to happen?

    GM Cheung: Yah, it was all planned. You know, they deliberately set the interview that the journalists was there.

    Russ: Do you feel this was a plan just by these guys that did this, or do you feel that Leung Ting was aware of this and had something to do with this?

    GM Cheung: Leung Ting was for sure behind it, and then this Keith Kernspecht, Leung Ting's student in Germany. They were behind it. But, because, well he didn't land any punches. I just happened to slip on the
    ground, and he was on top. And so, after they ran away, there was a little bit of chaos. But I told them "Don't worry about it, we'll carry on with the seminar." So everybody, apart from those people who ran away, everybody stayed. So we carried on for another 3 1/2 hours.
    In fact, during the break, after another hour and a half, during the break the journalist was asking for more photo's. So I had to pose for more photo's. And I'm sure at least one or two..maybe not all of them ran away.. because we don't know who they were, so they're still in the seminar. And then when I was posing for photo's for the camera, some guy yelled out-- oh, what about he got beaten up, what about this or that. So the journalist started asking questions. But I said, "There was a little situation, you
    know." I told them what happened.

    Russ: So what was your feeling at that time? Were you very angry?

    GM Cheung: Well, I was a bit disappointed more than angry. I was disappointed that...firstly, in Kung Fu, the respect towards elders, towards seniors is very strong. And they claim to be Wing chun people. Then to set up such an ambush. You know, I was a bit disappointed. And also, I felt that was a bit low because I knew there's no way they would let me have a fair fight because they had all these people there. And more so, because there were other disciplines there, there was some Karate and some Tae Kwon Do disciplines witness such behaviour. You know in fact, because I didn't know they were going to try something the next day, so I cancelled the next day. And about two weeks later, I got back to Australia, I had
    received about 10 letters offering their support, the people that attended the seminar.

    Russ: So once you returned to Australia, did you try and contact Leung Ting?

    GM Cheung: No, no, because I had some commitments in Sydney. So it happened to be Dave Cater and one of Black Belt's journalists was in Sydney. And we had lunch there. This was just like two weeks after the event.

    Russ: So they had heard....

    GM Cheung: Oh, they knew about it.

    Russ: What do you think, or what happened as a result of it?

    GM Cheung: Well, it just let everybody find out how low can Leung Ting get to. But I did have a meeting with my Association people, and we decided we would not go down to that low.

    Russ: I would assume a lot of your people wanted to retaliate?

    GM Cheung: Oh yah, but I told them no, I don't want that. See, you can only fight a dog down to the dog's level. So I told them no. But they did send letters, because they weren't satisfied. And this guy Emin, he sent a few letters stating he wanted another rematch or something. And I just told him, I said, "Look, you're not in the seniority to do a rematch." I gave him six photo's and six persons, if he wants to have a good fight just pick any of my instructors. Never heard from him since.

    Russ: But, you didn't want to fight a rematch, or?

    GM Cheung: Nah, nah, he's no match. He can't throw punches (laugh). I mean, I would not have granted him another opportunity to degrade martial arts.
    The whole episode took over 20 seconds to take place. I have seen both the unedited version of the event on tape, as well as the edited version available to the public (on Dynamic Wing Tsun). When we were on the ground, Boztepe threw seven or so punches and I blocked all of them. This is proven on the videos, because it still showed despite their editing. They cut out my kicking Boztepe when he first jumped in, and also putting him in a head- lock. They still could not make it look like I was hurt. The fact that I resumed teaching the seminar after the fight and had another photo session with the magazine in the break later only confirms that I blocked all of Boztepe's punches. But I still wonder whether Boztepe was hurt from the strikes of my knees.

    Russ: You didn't see this as a challenge match in the traditional sense, because it seems like from what you told me there wasn't the respect, this just wasn't a traditional challenge....

    GM Cheung: Nah. You can not challenge your senior. I would never grant a challenge to a junior. There are times and places for them to say things.
    See, Leung Ting is two generations from me. And this guy is another two generations down. If these things start to happen, the whole organization, the whole discipline will collapse. So, they have to go back and study the tradition.

    Russ: So it's 8 years later, how do you feel about this?

    GM Cheung: I don't think it really matters, because those people are not training in Wing Chun anymore. Well, they might claim to be teaching Wing Chun, but they're not teaching Wing Chun.

    Russ: As part of the Reunification tour, have you tried to speak to Leung Ting?

    GM Cheung: Yah, in fact when I was in L.A. two months ago, David Cater had told me that Leung Ting was also in town. I gave Dave Cater three phone numbers that he could get to me in three different cities. But I didn't
    hear from him.

    Russ: When you and Leung Ting were speaking, because you mentioned that earlier, what sort of relationship did you have?

    GM Cheung: Well, it was all right, it was quite cordial.

    Russ: Did he respect your seniority and your position, or was it just kind of where we both do the same thing?

    GM Cheung: He was always addressing me as Sisook, which is one generation away from him. So he always did that to skip one more generation. I mean, showing respect is not for the other people, it's actually for your self.

    Russ: So do you see him ever recognizing your total seniority and recognizing the Traditional Wing Chun family?

    GM Cheung: Oh yah, because nobody can change the truth.

    Four Stage Plan of Germany Ambush.


    • #3
      interesting, shows that there is always another side to a story


      • #4
        Very well, I might as well post the open challenge made by Cheung

        In reply of the William Cheung Interview Feb 1996 Mitcham Kwoon.

        The following letter appears in Martial Arts Magazines

        3, Nullah Rd., 2C/fl., Kowloon,
        Hong Kong Tel 3-816044

        Dear Sir,

        RE: Point Three of the minutes of the 11th General Meeting

        Recently we have received many letters and complaints about a person
        called William Cheung who has distorted many affairs with ulterior motive.
        As the board of directors of the Ving Tsun Athletic Association -- the
        general association of the WHOLE Ving Tsun (Wing Tsun / Wing Chun) system,
        which was founded by the late Grandmaster Yip Man and most of his senior
        students since 1976, we have the responsibility to clarify the following

        1/ William Cheung has NEVER been regarded by anyone of his fellow-students
        as the grandmaster or the leader of the whole Wing Chun Clan.

        2/ NOBODY is recognized as the so-called "No 1 student of Grandmaster
        Yip Man" and we have NEVER heard of William Cheung as the "No. 1 Fighter
        of the Wing Chun Style".

        3/ "Footwork" in the Wing Chun System is regarded as a most advanced
        technique. We do not deny that some of the students of Grandmaster
        Yip Man did not learn the whole system, but it is NOT TRUE that
        William Cheung is the ONLY person to have ever learnt the entire
        Wing Chun System" as what he announced in his advertisement.

        4/ There have NEVER been any techniques in our system called "DIM-MAK" or
        "Disabling Pressure Points", NOR any so-called "Missing Techniques" since
        the creation of the Wing Chun System by Ng Mui.

        5/ When Grandmaster Yip Man taught the techniques to his students he asked
        NO-ONE "to take an oath not to reveal the secret to anyone during his life
        time." He taught according to the potential of his students, teaching
        the most advanced techniques to the most talented ones.

        In the mid of 50's there had been a kid called William Cheung who had studied
        in Grandmaster Yip Man's school for a few years intermittently and left
        Hong Kong when he was 18 years old, and since then had become isolated from
        his instructor and all the other fellow-students. During his short training
        he surely gained the wrong impression in thinking that Grandmaster Yip Man
        never taught the advanced techniques to students other than himself. And yet
        we do not know how much William Cheung really learned himself.

        It is regrettable that his lies have gone so far (i.e he told the
        reporters that Grandmaster Yip Man had taught only him the so-called
        "traditional Wing Chun", but had taught all his other students the
        "modified Wing Chun").

        However, any average person could easily analyze his techniques and see
        this statement must be a lie. It is unthinkable that Grandmaster Yip Man
        would choose to cheat all the students except one impudent kid, who actually
        had little respect for him!

        We feel sorry to have such an ignorant person in out clan, We want
        to establish our position: we have NEVER AGREED with his Crazy
        self-promotion, though we do understand his motive in casting himself as the
        "Superman" in the William Cheung's Wing Chun System.

        Yours faithfully,

        The Board Of Directors and Attendance in the meeting of clarification
        the distored affairs.

        Wong Shun Leung (Chairman)
        Leung Ting (Vice Chairman)
        Tong Chao Chi (Vice Chairman)
        Lok Yiu (President)
        Yip Ching (Vice President)
        Ho Kam Ming (Vice President)
        Siu Yuk Man (Secretary)
        Chan Tak Chiu (Treasurer)
        Tsui Sheung Tim (Membership Management)
        Koo Sang (Membership Management)
        Lee Wai Chi (Public Relation)
        Victor Kan (attendance)
        Yip Chun (attendance)

        William Cheung's response to a letter from the
        leading masters of Wing Chun. This version comes from Australasian fighting Arts
        Vol 10 nr 3.


        Firstly, I want to point out that the statement by the Ving Tsun Athletic
        Association in their letter that the "the association was founded by the late
        grandmaster Yip Man and most of his senior student since 1976" is not true,
        because Yip Man died in 1971. So he couldn't have founded the Ving Tsun
        Athletic Association in 1976 as claimed.
        I shall attempt to answer their letter point by point:
        (1) I am the leader of the Traditional Wing Chun because I am the only person
        who inherited the whole Traditional system of Wing Chun. Furthermore, I also
        know the modified version thoroughly, and know that it is inferior to the
        Traditional system. I therefore proclaim myself the Grandmaster of the
        Traditional Wing Chun Kung Fu. If anyone does not think so, he can come and
        see me and I will be more than too pleased to show him.
        (2) I was the only person that Grandmaster Yip Man chose to carry on the
        whole Traditional Wing Chun system. I am the best fighter in the Wing Chun
        Style. This was acknowledged by the late Bruce Lee, and recognized by many
        famous masters of other styles. I anyone needs proof, I would only be too
        pleased to oblige.
        (3) Nobody - I say nobody - was taught the traditional Wing Chun footwork but
        me. I Leung Ting and company knew it, they would be showing their students. It
        is like the case of the Bil Jee form. Nobody knew the proper form except me
        and that is why they have been telling people that the Bil Jee form was too
        dangerous even to show it; in order to cover up the fact that they don't know
        it. I was the first WEing Chun master to put Bil Jee in a book so that
        everyone can learn the correct version.
        (4)Dim Mak or disabling Pressure Point Techniques was passed on to me, along
        with the whole Traditional system of Wing Chun. If you have read my article on
        the subject you might understand how it works. However, ther is no medicine for
        ignorance; Leung Ting and company deny the existence because they don't know
        it. At least this time they admit their ignorance. My book on Dim Mak, or
        Disabling Pressure Point Techniques, will be on the market soon. Keep your
        eyes open. In china there is a Kung Fu monk who could stand upside down on one
        or two hands. Some people can break a half dozen inch boards with a punch.
        Maybe there are people who can stand on a dozen eggs. I can stand on two
        without breaking them. All these can be called tricks if you like, but the
        fact is that I am still "the best Wing Chun Fighter". I dare anyone to prove
        (5) It is irrelevant to argue whether Yip Man had made be take an oath before
        he taught me the complete Traditional Wing Chun System, because no-one else
        was privileged to witness it. The fact is, that after 36 years of training in
        Wing Chun, I have the confidence to say that I am the most knowledgeable
        master in the Wing Chun System and I am the best fighter, and I am willing to
        prove it to them at any time, anywhere. Unlike Leung Ting and company, as
        shown in the photo, you only have to take one look at them to realize that
        none of them look that part of martial artists. I could safely say that none
        of them have done any hard training in recent years. They certainly don't look
        very impressive!
        In the 50's I was a kid . . . so was Bruce Lee . . . full of enthusiasm and
        energy. We learned Wing Chun together and we were determined to make a name
        for Wing Chun and ourselves. And we did. In the 50's Leung Ting was still "in
        his diapers". He didn't learn Wing Chun until the 1960's from Leung Chun,(Yip
        Man's student) of his own admission. He is one generation behind Bruce and me.
        However, according to the article published in "Secrets of Kung Fu" Vol 2
        1977, hundred of Kung Fu masters in Hong Kong - including Leung Chun, Yip
        Shun, Tsui Sheng tin, and Wong Shun Leung - denounced Leung Ting in very
        strong terms (I have enclosed copies) Leung Shun was reportedly saying that
        Leung Ting wasn't learning from him, but from his student Jah Bak. This makes
        Leung Ting two generation behind Bruce Lee and I.
        And Leung Ting's claim that he was Yip Man's closed door student is on what
        grounds? In the 60's, Yip Man was a heavy drug user, and did not enjoy very
        good health. There was no way that Yip Man could have taught anyone in that
        state of health. Even his own sons, Yip Chun and Yip Ching, who came to Hong
        Kong in the 1960's, had to be content to train with Yip Man's senior students.
        Wing Chun is a system which was developed for one to be able to master in
        three to four years. Grandmaster Yip Man, from age of twelve to sixteen,
        learned four years part time the modified version of Wing Chun with Chan Wah
        Shun and, from age 17, he learned 2 years traditional Wing Chun from Leung Buk
        (Leung Jung's son) in Hong Kong. Wong Shun Leung only learned modified Wing
        Chun for three years part time and he began teaching in early 1955. Loh Liu
        probably started teaching after only 2 years part time training in the
        modified version.
        I studied Wing Chun for 4 and one half years part time in the modified
        version, and then 2 and one half years full time in the traditional version,
        when I was living with Yip Man. I learned the modified version as well as the
        traditional version. After I completed my learning, I have continued to
        practice for a further 28 years, and I still practice daily.
        From these factors you can see that I am the most qualified practitioner in
        both modified and traditional versions of Wing Chun Kung Fu. I proclaim myself
        the most knowledgeable master and the best fighter in the whole Wing Chun
        I would like to close off with a very famous Chinese proverb : "Practicing
        Kung Fu is like paddling upstream - if you don't go forward, you must go
        backward, and seldom you stay in the same spot". It is no surprise to find the
        whole group in the printed photo appear to have gone so far backward that I
        would be ashamed to be associated with them.

        William Cheung


        (The photo he refers to has in it Leung Ting, Wong Shun Leung, Tong Chao Chi,
        Lok Yiu, Yip Ching, Ho Kam Ming, Siu Yuk Man, Chan Tak Chiu, Tsui Shun Tin,
        Lee Wai Chi, Victor Kan, and Yip Chun. He also supplied a photo of himself
        as a child in the same room as Yip Man)


        • #5
          Such a lot of fuss over two guys rollin around in a scrap


          • #6
            Its because the guy with the big fat mouth, who claimed he could kick everyones ass, and that he was the only "real" Wing Chun "Master" got his arse kicked by a rough and ready student.

            All that article is politically motivated bull shit. I was around when Cheung continually shouted his big mouth off in all the magazines. Time and time again he prattled on about how unbeatable he was, and how Yip Man gave him the "secrets" of Wing Chun. It seems that good old Yip had taught everyone else (including his own son) a flawed system..... yeah right!. But he'd taught Cheung the real system..... Bollocks.

            He said he would fight anyone, and wasn't so bothered about their relative rankings......

            The guy had (has) a big mouth and got what he deserved. Don't get me wrong. I couldn't care less about Wing Chun or Emin Boztepe........ But I saw the Cheung boastings time and time again in the interviews he constantly gave. He just can't take the fact he got his arse kicked.


            • #7
              Originally posted by Thai Bri
              Its because the guy with the big fat mouth, who claimed he could kick everyones ass, and that he was the only "real" Wing Chun "Master" got his arse kicked by a rough and ready student.

              All that article is politically motivated bull shit. I was around when Cheung continually shouted his big mouth off in all the magazines. Time and time again he prattled on about how unbeatable he was, and how Yip Man gave him the "secrets" of Wing Chun. It seems that good old Yip had taught everyone else (including his own son) a flawed system..... yeah right!. But he'd taught Cheung the real system..... Bollocks.

              He said he would fight anyone, and wasn't so bothered about their relative rankings......

              The guy had (has) a big mouth and got what he deserved. Don't get me wrong. I couldn't care less about Wing Chun or Emin Boztepe........ But I saw the Cheung boastings time and time again in the interviews he constantly gave. He just can't take the fact he got his arse kicked.

              The video clip available to the public is edited bs. Emin didn't hit him a single time. And why does it matter were he learned his WC? It is way more effective than the other lineage of wc and thats all that matters.


              • #8
                What a coincidence.....sherwinc and Tameo have both appeared within minutes of each other.........

                ps - Cheung is still a jerk.


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Tameo
                  The video clip available to the public is edited bs. Emin didn't hit him a single time. And why does it matter were he learned his WC? It is way more effective than the other lineage of wc and thats all that matters.

                  I have to agree with Thai Bri on this one. I couldn't used a better formulation myself.

                  Cheung didn't got hit a single time? Didn't Cheung said he lost because he slipped? Anyway just because you say so it doesn't have to be that way. This has been discussed several times before just search the net. It looks to me that Emin Boztepe controls the whole fight in the so called edited bs video type and he do hit with punches.

                  That Traditional Wing Chun is better than all other WC linages is pure bullshit. It's like saying that WC is better than all other styles.
                  Why do you believe that Tameo?


                  • #10
                    What confuses me is the Cheung would not grant a rematch. I more than understand the issue of senority respect. However, he granted Boztepe teh fight (though he says he thought it was sparring) and then when he realized it was a challenge for a fight. I would think he would want to be clear about who was the superior fighter. It seemed like teh challege was only to his peers, not an open challenge for WC or any MA style. Like he said Leung Ting et al are out of shpe knowing this he may win simply becuase he is in better shape than those one generation underhim, but not becuase he is better fighter.

                    Ultamitely, who cares how well Cheung can fight, How well do you fight Tameo that's all you need to concern yourself with.


                    • #11
                      Come on people, Emin Boztepe is a german turkish Serwinc
                      He didn't want to fight in the UFC ( against the Gracies)because it limited him too much
                      Well I didn't see anything in the Cheung/Bortepe fight that would be prohibited in UFC, did you?

                      Upto now most of his famous "so called" wins had the element of suprise
                      (him entering a skinheadbar and beating everyone up)

                      what I remember from the clip is cheung on the floor rolling and dodging Boztepes punches and boztepe barely hitting him, the fight didn't end in a Knock out or something, so to say that Cheung got his ass whipped is an overstatement to say the least


                      • #12
                        What happened then? Did he wear Boztepe out? Haw haw haw!

                        Don't get me wrong. I'm no Boztepe fan. If what is said about his challenge to the Gracie's is true, then he's gone full circle and become just as big an ass wipe as Cheung.

                        But that doesn't make Cheung any less of one.


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Thai Bri
                          If what is said about his challenge to the Gracie's is true, then he's gone full circle and become just as big an ass wipe as Cheung.

                          I am definately missing something ..... did Boztepe challgene one of the Gracies. If so it should be bareknuckle, when was the challenge made and what (if any) was the Gracies response. Are they taking this serious


                          • #14
                            I don't know whether its true or not, but there was supposedly a challenge to the Gracies after early UFCs, with Boztepe sayig it was all fake.

                            When taken up on the challenge he then started threatening legal action (?) and avoided them like the plague.

                            May not have happened, who really knows?


                            • #15
                              Letters between the two parts and their reasons of not fighting eachother... basically they couldn't agree on a neutral location for the fight.