dangers of flakey teachers and the rise of internet fu

[sunwukung]

I have posted before in another forum , some of these defenses.

If you're referring to the pictures/videos you posted on the DList, we've discussed this already and it's been clearly established that they do not prove your point, as neither were indicative of the situations we're talking about.

It's not a matter of looking at still photos and 'imagining' what you think you could do, "Oh, look! There's A and there's B!" but what is practical and specifically what can be done as evidenced by the fact that it HAS been done.

This is exactly right. You keep referencing fights you've watched on TV and stating what you would do. There are plenty of people in the world that could tell you what they would've done, but most of those conversations take place in Accident and Emergency. This is the fundamental point of this debate, the distinction between theory and practice.

In theory, I could dodge bullets - but in practice it's a bit difficult.

[TigerClaw]

In theory, I could dodge bullets - but in practice it's a bit difficult.

Yes, in theory there are ways to get out of a situation where a man points a gun at your head and he is within arms distance. There are many techniques you can use to escape this. But who is ever going to be able to prove this, or have it on film. Your arguments are wrong, to try and have a man really try to hold you up with a gun and then to use some fast defense on him and disarm him and to have it on film, is impossible. But I would still teach my students how to escape a potentially life and death situation with a man who points a gun at them at close range. And this technique will still work, even if I don't prove it to you with videos of an actual hold up.

What you ask is incorrect. You seem to say that unless I have a man on the street attack me and try to kill me and he happens to be a professional grappler and it must also be filmed. That the techniques I teach won't work? Hmmm, you are very wrong. And your arguing ability is very weak. Your whole resoning is flawed.

Let me put it this way. I don't need to see a person get a hard fast front kick in the groin at full power to know that it is going to work on an attacker. I don't need to have a video of a person digging their fingers into anothers eyes to know that it is going to hurt and the man will quickly shoot his hands to his face exposing other vital areas. if you need video for these techniques then you are not aware of the human body and the dynamics of "attack and reaction" (that's my own phrase I just put in there).

[sunwukung]

What you ask is incorrect. You seem to say that unless I have a man on the street attack me and try to kill me and he happens to be a professional grappler and it must also be filmed. That the techniques I teach won't work? Hmmm, you are very wrong. And your arguing ability is very weak. Your whole resoning is flawed.

No, that is not what I asked. I clearly said in the previous post simply demonstrate your solutions to grappling against your friends in the MMA/Jujitsu circuit - here's the quote in case you forgot:

"Go and find your jujitsu/MMA friends you referred to earlier, perform the maneuver you are referring to and film it
http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/313290-post54.html

Up to you KFM, either you have these pals in the business, or you're talking out of your hat.
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Stuff it, I can't even be bothered to try and have a rational debate with you any more. Your brain is brokened.

[jubaji]

if you need video for these techniques then you are not aware of the human body and the dynamics of "attack and reaction" (that's my own phrase I just put in there).

In other words you are dealing only with 'theory' and can't prove any of the BS you keep bothering people with.

[TigerClaw]

In other words you are dealing only with 'theory' and can't prove any of the BS you keep bothering people with.

No, many things we practice in the clubs. But some things are life and death and you need to attack full force, how can that be set up or done in reality. Like I said, I do not have to see a person kick someone in the groin full force to know it works. Do you?

But many things a person learns when dealing with life and death techniques has to be theory. Even though they may have ben done before in reality by the founders of the art. For example many weapons forms in Kung Fu we do in theory, when we practice. But in the ancient days in war and combat they were for life and death. Does that mean that the weapons forms are BS because we have not seen a sword go through a man as we do in our techniques? or the spear forms are useless because we don't have a video of it against a MMA fighter? LOL

I do not teach BS at all. And it is you that are bothering people. What do you study, and tell me about your style and techniques? and how do you know any of them work at all? Will you not learn a technique unless you see your instructor fight a MMA fighter with it and have it on video. That sounds so ridiculous. Your whole mindset is not correct. You really don't know what you are talking about it seems.

When I showed a few pages back a fight between Lesner and Couture. I showed very clearly the areas that a Kung Fu fighter may attack. I think that was a good exercise and it made some clarity of what I was talking about.

[jubaji]

Like I said, I do not have to see a person kick someone in the groin full force to know it works.

This really says it all about you and your failings.

[jubaji]

When I showed a few pages back a fight between Lesner and Couture. I showed very clearly the areas that a Kung Fu fighter may attack. I think that was a good exercise and it made some clarity of what I was talking about.

What an idiot. Any fool can look at specific moments from video and say, "I could do this here, and I could do that there," but there is a big difference between imagining it and actually doing it. That is where your make pretend BS runs smack into reality, dope.

[TigerClaw]

What an idiot. Any fool can look at specific moments from video and say, "I could do this here, and I could do that there," but there is a big difference between imagining it and actually doing it. That is where your make pretend BS runs smack into reality, dope.

Wrong again, as usual. Most people wouldn't see things like I did in that fight between lesner and Couture. If they did they would never even for a second try to argue with me on my discussion.. I was looking at it from a Kung Fu, combative, survival perspective. It is so simple, you make it obvious that you are just biased and no matter what I showed or did or discussed, you would take issue with it. Like I said before, practicing Kung Fu and forms etc., which are not actual combat has great benefits and will help those who practice it. If a person was to take your crazy thinking, then they would never practice forms, because they are not actual combat, and you never know if it works, and they would never take any martial arts, they would just street brawl and jump into a MMA ring and when they loose they go away and think about it and then jump back into the ring and try not to get hit the same way next time.

But don't you realize that Kung Fu has had a long history of combat application and the techniques that have ben passed down in forms etc are techniques that have worked and that do work for those who train hard.

Heres an example of just training and the benefit of it. I had shown a technique to one of my students and he practiced it, with no real life "doing it", or an " a real life attacker". Then one day a person agressively grabbed him and he did the technique he had been practicing. He came back to me and told me that the technique I taught him actually worked in reality, this has happened a few times for him. This is the same for all kung fu forms that I teach. In this case he learned, practiced, worked on two man application, and in reality it worked. This is the process for many , many , many martial arts schools worldwide. So what are you talking about?

You show more and more that you have no idea what you are talking about and you are just attacking me no matter what I say. Sad really.

[jubaji]

Wrong again, as usual. Most people wouldn't see things like I did in that fight between lesner and Couture. If they did they would never even for a second try to argue with me on my discussion.. .

Crap like this is where the fact that you are just trolling becomes all too obvious.

[TigerClaw]

Up to you KFM, either you have these pals in the business, or you're talking out of your hat.

I have a few aquaintances. I don't know them that well, They teach in the same gym I teach Kung Fu. I do know them however and I don't make things up. They , by the way agree with what I say about the difference to sport fighting and combat survival. We have talked at times, agreed and shared a few things and I showed one of them how a Kung Fu fighter escapes a rear naked choke. He liked it and agreed that it was good.

But I have no desire to ask them to take pictures of techniques or other fighting situations just so I can post it in here to satisfy you. Besides, no matter what I show here it will be attacked, mocked and rejected, even if I showed very strong escapes in grappling situations.

By the way, I want to see any video or pictures of you doing any techniques and I want to examine it carefully before all here. I want to see your hand positioning, your stance, your speed and technique. I want to look at your foreward motion, if you telegraph your moves, if you have strength in your technique etc etc etc.

And tell me your whole martial arts history and lineage.

[Ben Grimm]

He comes from Brian Leishman. We know how much of a fraud he is. We already exposed him on Bullshido.

[TigerClaw]

He comes from Brian Leishman. We know how much of a fraud he is. We already exposed him on Bullshido.

He was not my only teacher, and he was way back in my history. By the way, Brian lesihman was a powerful fighter. Not to many could overcome him. And his Kung Fu and ability is not a fraud. By the way he learned other things besides the thing she learned in previous training.

But Ben, I still want to remind you of some good things, because your bad attitude, attacks and mean spiritedness. is not all that you are.

I updated some of these things according to your other info

1. You study Wing Chun I think and a few other styles specifically "Red Belt Level 3 in Moon Lee Taekwondo". Thats good, your Wing Chun is a solid and very effective style. If you continue in it you should be good at Kung Fu. And you seek to continue to learn other forms of fighting, ground fighting etc, that is also good, it shows a willingness to grow and continue learning. We are similar in that respect.

2. You are a family man as I understand, and that is good. Usually people with family have learned some things about life that those who have no wife or kids cannot. We are similar in that respect.

3. You have some courage, to run after a thief who took something from your wife. This shows a willingness to step outside of the norm and take action. We are similar in that respect.

4. You have a job it appears and try to take care of your family. Thats good. We are similar in this respect

5. You have more than a casual interest in martial arts and go on forums such as these to discuss it. We are similar in this respect.

6. You have a passion to expose error and what you believ is untrue, (Although in my case you miss the mark totally). We both have this desire when we see it.

I hope the best for you.

[sunwukung]

Besides, no matter what I show here it will be attacked, mocked and rejected, even if I showed very strong escapes in grappling situations.

That's a convenient excuse.

From what you're saying, you seem to spend your efforts training techniques that you never test and hope they work when needed, in contrast to those folks who would prefer to invest their time training techniques they can test in relatively realistic circumstances, thus vastly increasing their chances of survival.

By the way, I want to see any video or pictures of you doing any techniques and I want to examine it carefully before all here.

You can want whatever you like, but:

a) It is not relevant to this topic
b)I am not actually presenting any techniques to discuss

I want to see your hand positioning, your stance, your speed and technique. I want to look at your foreward motion, if you telegraph your moves, if you have strength in your technique etc etc etc.

What relevance does this have to the thread topic? Or do you just want to try and throw up a smoke screen to distract from the subject at hand?
Let's just pretend I have no experience, and I'm just being a devil's advocate shall we? That way we can remain focussed.

[TigerClaw]

Im curious as to who you are?

Who did you train with or who are you training with?

Also if you live near me, come visit would love to see how you handle Baguazhang and I your material.

I am a Kung Fu teacher and I have been teaching recently for about close to four years now I think. I taught many years ago as well at one club I went to.

I have studied any different styles and traditional Kung Fu. I have had many different instructors over the years. I do not like to give out their names in here. Especially after the way some talk and attack. i don't want them bothered by the mean spirited attacks in here. But at one Club called E-Chaun Mun, the master taught traditional Hung Gar, Northern Shaolin, White Crane, and my Choy Li Fut master has a direct lineage to the founder Chan Heung. His father was, I believe from the same lineage as Doc Fai Wong. I have not learned that much Choy Li Fut, but I have learned it. I also have learned some Seven Star Praying mantis and snake style as well as some Shaolin Lohan forms and weapons etc etc etc. I teach at two different locations.

The big issue in here began when I dared to say that Kung Fu has fast and effective combat survival techniques that differentiate it from the sport fighting we see on TV and MMA fights. I also dared to say that Kung Fu has grappling and ground fighting as well, and that within many different kung fu styles such a vast amount of techniques can be used against grapplers. I also posted some very clear pictures of escapes from some more common Grappling situations.

Another sub fight began when some CLFsean in the DL, and CLFdevil, attackd me for not telling more Choy Li Fut info.

[Ben Grimm]

For those from DL, TigerClaw is KFM.