Why I don't practice BJJ

[jubaji]

Not for nothing, but wiki is not a legitimate source for anything.

[benneil]

one point to make. the bodhidharma connection is weak at best.

Yì J?n J?ng - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Yì Jīn Jīng...is a qìgōng manual most notable as the source of the attribution of Shaolin Kung Fu to Bodhidharma, though this has been doubted by several martial arts historians.

my sifu tells me there is much documentation that different martial arts existed in china before the alleged arrival of bodhidharma.

I think you have some good points. All Japanese martial arts and Korean Martial arts probably originated in China, and before that, India.

[benneil]

after lots of googling i finaly found this linked off of wikipedia.

i guess this guy teaches di su along with wing chun

and lo and behold he has a tiny thumbnail of master chen in the corner too where it says

105 year old Desui Master Chen showing a reverse take down

Wing Chun - ???? - ???? - ??? - Los Angeles - San Gabriel - Orange County

some quotes on his page about di su (desui):

"Sifu Wong demonstrates fighting applications and techniques that are at a different level; the level of sophistication in Desui enables one to accomplish more breaks, controls, and holds quicker than other arts." (Justin Bronk, black belt in Jujitsu, Judo, Tae Kwon Do, and has 20 years of martial arts experience).

"Sifu Wong demonstrates speed and power that is very impressive. The techniques in ground fighting, such as arm locks and leg locks and getting out of submission holds, is also very impressive . . . I am a black belt in Karate Korja Kempo system (Okinawa hard and soft style). I learned from my father, the great Tigi Mataalii, nicknamed "Iceman", who holds the world record for breaking 9,000 pounds of ice blocks, and a 7-time International Karate Champion." (Harris Mataalii).

[benneil]

Getting into the Japanese vs Chinese history thing is pointless.

true. it was really just an aside in my post. nothing to do with the main point at all

[jubaji]

I think his name was master chen...but yes he taught Maeda who in turn taught the Gracies. Of course Maeda didn't want to admit he learned from the Chinese (like other Japanese MAs) and with the Japanese habit of changing history he left that portion out.

Getting into the Japanese vs Chinese history thing is pointless.

[Tant01]

Rumors...

.....I think his name was master chen...but yes he taught Maeda who in turn taught the Gracies. Of course Maeda didn't want to admit he learned from the Chinese (like other Japanese MAs) and with the Japanese habit of changing history he left that portion out.

I know I will get massive amounts of shit for this but this is what I was told from a friend who studied Di Su somewhere in NY and where Master Chen was his Sigung.

Ill google it and see if i can find more info. im kinda curious now myself

Interesting... I've read a number of bio's on the Judoka that taught Carlos Gracie his Newaza.

I think someone is blowing smoke up your ass...

[benneil]

i think a lot of good points were made in this thread:

1. KF has a lot taken away from it when in sport because of it specializing in strikes to illegal areas, quick joint breaks (different from jujitsu because in jujitsu you disable the rest of the person with a hold and concentrate on the joint whereas in KF you often snap the joint quickly like a strike. In the KF way this can't be translated into a tapout situation)

2. If you rely on eye gouges, groin kicks, etc. you are screwed unless you are the ultimate master and can perform an eye gouge on an aggressive moving target. if you are a master then it is a moot point

theoretically, if you are a master in standup striking then having ground skills is not necessary as most fights start standing up. but for the rest of us, not having any ground game leaves us with a big gap in our arsenal.

on a side note for the jujitsu and bjj worshippers our there--you have to take those fights you see on UFC with a grain of salt. next time you watch the UFC and you see someone relying on using their guard while on their back imagine a real life situation and you will see that in real life they would be kneed in the groin, head butted or worse while they are on their back with their legs wide open trying to get you in some sort of joint lock.

also knwo that if you are fighting multiple opponents and you rely on jj or bjj you are screwed.

remember that pure jujitsu, like judo, is a subset of larger fighting systems that were seperated and turned into sports.

jujitsu is actually just a small portion of di su (ground skills) kung fu. i know i will probably get a lot of heat from jj and bjj guys for this. just like the well karate to shaolin connection and the sometimes disputed baguazhang to aikido connection there is the lesser known di su to jujitsu connection.

di su consists of the joint locks and chokeholds of jujitsu but also massive amounts of strikes, pressure point attacks, and take downs of standing opponents all while you on the ground. weapons work while on the ground too!

I think his name was master chen...but yes he taught Maeda who in turn taught the Gracies. Of course Maeda didn't want to admit he learned from the Chinese (like other Japanese MAs) and with the Japanese habit of changing history he left that portion out.

I know I will get massive amounts of shit for this but this is what I was told from a friend who studied Di Su somewhere in NY and where Master Chen was his Sigung.

Ill google it and see if i can find more info. im kinda curious now myself

[pstevens]

I watch UFC, but I am not impressed.
I could apply the eye gouge, unlike the rest.
My stances are awesome and my lineage too.
Snake style or Mantis, its all kung-fu.

I like to make, outrageous comments.
To piss off real fighters it’s just me being honest.
In 15 seconds I could overcome a Gracie.
Because my kung-fu is so over-the-top crazy!

I am 19 years old, and that’s the truth.
But I pose as a master, (who is not a youth.)
I live with my mom, and my pet hamster.
But I am one hell of a kung fu dancer!

I have taken Kung Fu, a couple of times.
But I do all my fighting, only on-line.
And with my claws I could gouge your eyes.
And overcome Ben Grimm with all my lies.

I could even beat Jubaji, one on one.
But only in my dreams, because I weigh a ton.
That ton ain’t muscle, no sir-ee!
It’s fat from being slothful, and sedentary.

I demand you call me master, and that’s no joke.
Just like Dick Hardman, I like to toke.
In a real fight I would cry, just like a girl.
But they know me as the Tigerclaw, around the world.

I post on other forums, like Karate Korner.
Yes, it’s for kids, but I ain’t Jack Horner.
I am the Tigerclaw, and you will bow down.
That’s TigerCLAW, not TigerCLOWN!

I also used to post, on the Dragon's list.
But they chased me off, and now I am pissed!
For my birthday party, they gave me a balloon.
And a nice new helmet, so I could look like a goon.

My hoodies and shorts are all made of satin.
I used to post as "nutter", now ain't that happenin'!!
but the simple fact is, (in case you didn't guess it)
I've been playing you all, because I am a piece of shit, innit?

When I watch movies, that include wu-shu
I feel all warm and fuzzy because that’s REAL Kung-Fu!
So I post them as examples of the work that I do
The things that I teach, and the stances that I knew.

I fight in form and with a real low stance
But no, my kung fu is not a type of dance
It’s deadly serious, and not for Mockers.
Just like the caporiera shown in “Meet the Fockers”

They say I am a Larper, but they continue to mock.
I posted many pictures of my Gi and my socks!
I got my yellow belt now, in TKD
That’s after 7 years, but hey, that’s just me!

From the safety of my basement, I am an internet troll.
But that’s ok, you just don’t understand me at all.
I like to daydream about UFOs
And make fun of real martial artists, and step on toes.

Advice I’ve been given is a joke to me.
You’re wasting your time, can’t you see?
My make believe world is so much better.
Stay tuned for more posts, with me in my sweater.

Andy Murray is a name that I once used.
But “Kung Fu Man” is a name I abused
On a forum that didn’t want me so I came over here
To waste all your time, and make you think I am a.....

It makes me happy, when you engage me in talk
I told Mr. “Anderson” to stop his mock.
I even went so far as to put him on the ignore list
So I can’t even read this, or get the gist.

He figured me out, like so many always do.
I am no Kung fu teacher, just a larping poo!
Trolling on the net, is my favorite thing
You know you’ll never see me in an actual ring.

Talk is cheap when you’re a coward like me.
My reputation will always live, in infamy.
It’s a “perric” victory to make you all dance.
When I pull the strings, and you puppets all prance

When I watch UFC, I am amazed at what I see.
Big, untrained guys that could never overcome me.
Their stance is weak, and so are their forms.
They look like they always eat too much at Norms.

With my fish hooks and eye gouge I could take them all down.
Fedor, Silva, no match for THIS clown!
Since UFC is only a game,
My kung fu is better, it's just not the same!

Dancing, and prancing, and skipping around
Larping, and lying is what I do on the ground.
You know I can’t grapple out a paper bag.
If you saw me in real life, you’d know I was a …

Neither here nor there, a whole ‘nuther story.
Read my larping posts, in all their glory!
My pony tail and zits are quite a package!
So are my kilts, and so I manage…

I never have a date, or even a life.
The internet serves as my only wife.
Lying and trolling, that’s my forte
And hoping Jubs never finds me and tries to hurt me.

Ingenius... A guaranteed classic on the Internet.

[chillaplata]

ROFLMFAO! Tried to rep Mr. A. again but it wouldn't let me.

[Ben Grimm]

I wouldn't be surprised if some of us were on his "shit" list. You know like the one Ashida Kim had.

[jubaji]

I watch UFC, but I am not impressed.
I could apply the eye gouge, unlike the rest.
My stances are awesome and my lineage too.
Snake style or Mantis, its all kung-fu.

I like to make, outrageous comments.
To piss off real fighters it’s just me being honest.
In 15 seconds I could overcome a Gracie.
Because my kung-fu is so over-the-top crazy!

I am 19 years old, and that’s the truth.
But I pose as a master, (who is not a youth.)
I live with my mom, and my pet hamster.
But I am one hell of a kung fu dancer!

I have taken Kung Fu, a couple of times.
But I do all my fighting, only on-line.
And with my claws I could gouge your eyes.
And overcome Ben Grimm with all my lies.

I could even beat Jubaji, one on one.
But only in my dreams, because I weigh a ton.
That ton ain’t muscle, no sir-ee!
It’s fat from being slothful, and sedentary.

I demand you call me master, and that’s no joke.
Just like Dick Hardman, I like to toke.
In a real fight I would cry, just like a girl.
But they know me as the Tigerclaw, around the world.

I post on other forums, like Karate Korner.
Yes, it’s for kids, but I ain’t Jack Horner.
I am the Tigerclaw, and you will bow down.
That’s TigerCLAW, not TigerCLOWN!

I also used to post, on the Dragon's list.
But they chased me off, and now I am pissed!
For my birthday party, they gave me a balloon.
And a nice new helmet, so I could look like a goon.

My hoodies and shorts are all made of satin.
I used to post as "nutter", now ain't that happenin'!!
but the simple fact is, (in case you didn't guess it)
I've been playing you all, because I am a piece of shit, innit?

When I watch movies, that include wu-shu
I feel all warm and fuzzy because that’s REAL Kung-Fu!
So I post them as examples of the work that I do
The things that I teach, and the stances that I knew.

I fight in form and with a real low stance
But no, my kung fu is not a type of dance
It’s deadly serious, and not for Mockers.
Just like the caporiera shown in “Meet the Fockers”

They say I am a Larper, but they continue to mock.
I posted many pictures of my Gi and my socks!
I got my yellow belt now, in TKD
That’s after 7 years, but hey, that’s just me!

From the safety of my basement, I am an internet troll.
But that’s ok, you just don’t understand me at all.
I like to daydream about UFOs
And make fun of real martial artists, and step on toes.

Advice I’ve been given is a joke to me.
You’re wasting your time, can’t you see?
My make believe world is so much better.
Stay tuned for more posts, with me in my sweater.

Andy Murray is a name that I once used.
But “Kung Fu Man” is a name I abused
On a forum that didn’t want me so I came over here
To waste all your time, and make you think I am a.....

It makes me happy, when you engage me in talk
I told Mr. “Anderson” to stop his mock.
I even went so far as to put him on the ignore list
So I can’t even read this, or get the gist.

He figured me out, like so many always do.
I am no Kung fu teacher, just a larping poo!
Trolling on the net, is my favorite thing
You know you’ll never see me in an actual ring.

Talk is cheap when you’re a coward like me.
My reputation will always live, in infamy.
It’s a “perric” victory to make you all dance.
When I pull the strings, and you puppets all prance

When I watch UFC, I am amazed at what I see.
Big, untrained guys that could never overcome me.
Their stance is weak, and so are their forms.
They look like they always eat too much at Norms.

With my fish hooks and eye gouge I could take them all down.
Fedor, Silva, no match for THIS clown!
Since UFC is only a game,
My kung fu is better, it's just not the same!

Dancing, and prancing, and skipping around
Larping, and lying is what I do on the ground.
You know I can’t grapple out a paper bag.
If you saw me in real life, you’d know I was a …

Neither here nor there, a whole ‘nuther story.
Read my larping posts, in all their glory!
My pony tail and zits are quite a package!
So are my kilts, and so I manage…

I never have a date, or even a life.
The internet serves as my only wife.
Lying and trolling, that’s my forte
And hoping Jubs never finds me and tries to hurt me.

LOL! That is an instant classic!

[Ben Grimm]

Mr. Arieson, I'd rep you for that, but it won't let me at the moment.

[Ben Grimm]

I'll look for it. But he's been banned so I'm not sure how easy it will be.

[Tant01]

Some of us have WAY too much free time...

[jubaji]

Oh, you've "pissed them off" alright. Everyone's had a good laugh at your dramatic declarations of yesterday...