Technique discussions, pictures and video etc.

Is one of those factors that the attacker doesn't have any arms?

Because if the attacker doesn't have any arms, that escape would work great.

What??

Its all about proper leverage and body positioning. Also you don't just rely on the push upward of the one hand or the pulling upward and forward of the other hand. The duck and tuck of the head is very important. At the same time as you pull the hand behind the head up and forward and push the elbow up hard with extreme force you duck and tuck the head out as you twisted your stance to the side and crouched.

I have done this many times and against a strong lock.

[Uncle Skippy]

Bruce / TigerClaw,

Conveniently, you still haven't answered the question I posed in post #34. By not answering, you are simply showing everyone else just how little you know about the material.

Here it is again:

So, in the long history of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and other submission grappling/wrestling arts, nobody else has tried this enough or practiced it enough to make it work?

In BJJ, an art where submission escapes are just as important as submissions, there have been noble full-hearted attempts to try to escape the RNC by other means. Everyone is willing to try everything to come up with a new escape.

If your escape is high-percentage and works, then why, with all the history and number of BJJ practitioners, do we not see other people doing it?

Do you think you came up with something novel and original?

[Uncle Skippy]

I am aware that the technique I showed works best just before the final lock or earlier. You can see in the pictures my son has his arm not tight yet around the neck or squeezing.

You are obviously wrong in an obvious way.

Your son didn't even squeeze.

Show some video of you pulling this off on someone with more than 3 months of BJJ experience then people might take you seriously.

Until then, your garage Kung Fu is weak.

[Uncle Skippy]

But I do believe that if this is done right you can escape just as they lock in. If certain factors are in place.

Is one of those factors that the attacker doesn't have any arms?

Because if the attacker doesn't have any arms, that escape would work great.

After a submission hold (joint lock or choke) there is no escape. All effective escapes taught involve either avoiding the situation completely or blocking the move halfway before it is completely sunken in. If it was possible to escape from a submission hold after it is fully in (and properly applied) then there'd be no point in even learning it, let alone basing numerous sports and martial arts in it. It's the same principle as blocking a punch, you can't block a punch after it makes contact with your face. I think we can all agree that teaching a block that is to be used after a punch makes contact with your face is a little unrealistic .

I am aware that the technique I showed works best just before the final lock or earlier. You can see in the pictures my son has his arm not tight yet around the neck or squeezing.

But I do believe that if this is done right you can escape just as they lock in. If certain factors are in place. And if you do the technique properly. I have seen some try this and they twist the wrong way, they don't apply the force to the elbow right or at the right angle, they don't tuck the head in down and around. Etc.

But the real thing is that I have a few escapes from this move after it is locked in and some have none. the best some can say is something like, "you are finished after that". Well that is not acceptable for combat defense. There is always a way out. You need to find it or you may be dead. In a sport arena there is no fear of this, but in combat it is different. It may involve a quick strike back to the groin or a stomping on the instep hard, or a hard elbow to the slar plexes just a half second before you apply all the 4 other parts at the same time of this technique.

[Ben Grimm]

Just blowing off a bit of steam. It wasn't really directed at anybody. It just pisses me off that TigerClown can't grasp simple concepts like that.

[bunnyfufuman]

His escape seems similar to one that i have been taught and how i sort of escape a RNC from the ground. Ill try and give you a picture of how i escape, which has worked well for me in the past.

When they lock it on, first thing i do is roll so that their elbow is touching the matt.
Next i try and turn my neck and get my chin in the little gap that is always at the elbow. I say always because that is what i have been taught. Need to weasel your chin in their a bit and it basically stops you from chocking out but your head does get squeezed and that can hurt a bit.
After that i do what i can to get more room by sliding my head down further and further, using my hands to pull the arm down a bit and break the lock.
Basically your using the human bodies make up to get out of it and then probably me just being a bit panicy and trying to do whatever i can to get my head out of the lock.

I should also mention that there have been times where i have started to get a bit of tunnel vision with this lock escape. I am yet to be choked out, but then i havent had a MMA bout yet.

That is probably a bjj way of getting out, i dont know what grappling style i learn, i believe it is bjj. Have to disagree with TC, if they have the lock on properly, using all their strength i cant see how you have the strength to break their arms free. I will try your lock with my brother who trains with me.

Arent we all proud of where we come from? in some way we all show some arrogance that our training is far better then anyone elses. I believe that to be human. Is mine any better then TC's or Ben or Arieson? I dont know but i hope to god it is.
A fight only proves who was better on the day. 3 fights only proves who the better fighter is. What does the fight actually prove? doesnt prove who the better person is, who the more manly person is, better father, son, brother, etc... do you see where i am going with that?

So far i have seen one reasonable response to TC's technique, the rest have just continued their rant at arguing with him. Have you not learned he isnt going to change? give up and go suck mummies tit or rape ethiopian children whilst eating vaginal discharge. I would like to have a discussion on technique for my own information, dont want to read about you clowns and your "TC fight me" "you are a liar because i say so" FFS keep it on topic. Lets have a discussion otherwise this forum will eventually die, because people will loose interest and become tired about your homosexual rants about wanting to mount bruce.

Heh..

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2105581&postcount=177

[Tant01]

Juji gatame

Before I show an escape is this the exact technique you are talking about?

YouTube - Juji gatame - Arm bar - from the guard

Or this one?

YouTube - Judo - Jujigatame

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These are all variations of the same (elbow) lock...

[-FIGJAM-]

Aargh! I was waiting for TigerClown's response! Is he one of your clowns that couldn't answer for himself, so you had to answer for him?

who was that directed at?

[Ben Grimm]

Aargh! I was waiting for TigerClown's response! Is he one of your clowns that couldn't answer for himself, so you had to answer for him?

[Bjjexpertise@be]

After a submission hold (joint lock or choke) there is no escape. All effective escapes taught involve either avoiding the situation completely or blocking the move halfway before it is completely sunken in. If it was possible to escape from a submission hold after it is fully in (and properly applied) then there'd be no point in even learning it, let alone basing numerous sports and martial arts in it. It's the same principle as blocking a punch, you can't block a punch after it makes contact with your face. I think we can all agree that teaching a block that is to be used after a punch makes contact with your face is a little unrealistic .

[Ben Grimm]

That's OK, I don't mind waiting for the information. If you can post it, I'll be willing to look at it and offer my criticism of the technique. Just don't take it personally.

That is the technique, now show me how you would escape.

I will have to get pictures either Friday or late saturday, I am busy the next few days. But there is more than one escape from this position.

[-FIGJAM-]

Ben, my apologies if you took it as a personal attack. I am just sick of shit responses that dont offer any actual information.

Yes i have seen your question and it is a valid question to ask, i would also like to know what else is out there to get out of a arm barr. But take into account, why would he respond when more then likely, half the people are going to say, your escape is wrong, a joke, ect.

TC, stop with the mocker crap. Ignore is a virtue, you dont respond to them, then hey, fingers crossed they will go back to ethipopia.

Also Ben respect for trying different arts. that takes dedication. My comment in regards to the superiority idea, is a common thing in everything in life and was aimed at everyone. Some people like a Mac computer other PC, some Ford cars some Holden(GM), Some USA some Canada, etc etc. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, you cant change some everyone's opinion to match your own.

[Ben Grimm]

That is the technique, now show me how you would escape.