why I left kungfu

[Ben Grimm]

Can we get this back on topic please? Knifethrower, I really don't want to hear about your personal rendition of Brokeback Mountain, so can it with the talk about strapons and so forth.

[jubaji]

spoken like an expert

[knifethrower]

Easy there ponytail lover…that strap-on you’re wearing doesn’t have to always be worn in reverse

[jubaji]

LOL! You and ponytail boy must look interesting cruising the trailer park on horseback with your spears and bow and arrow - ready for anything!

[kingoftheforest]

Wow, that doesn't really strengthen your argument.

Wow that doesn't make you any less of an asshole.

[jubaji]

Sorry there weren't any spectators with cell phone cams or YouTube during all those battles in the 12th and 13th centuries.

Wow, that doesn't really strengthen your argument.

[fire cobra]

I havent read all this thread but get the general jist from the OP.

I would like mention something that my teachers teacher(Im in Muay Thai) Pol Prapadaeng(a very famous boxer in Thailand years ago) told him,he said that years ago(in the 1950s) he used to fight Chinese Boxers and that they were very good,Pol Prapadaeng had over 350 matches so Its fair to say he knew what he was talking about!.

The problem is in the modern era Most Chinese Gung Fu styles dont fight anyone anymore so its mainly just theory and exercise they are practicing,no real timing in their applications etc.

Personally I can see some real good applications in styles such as Choy Lee Fut and Hung Gar,I think if a fighter was to make a real study of these arts they could develop some real fighting skills that would be useable in any fighting enviroment.

[kingoftheforest]

(sigh)

the early UFCs allowed everything except for eye gouging and fish hooking. Even groin strikes were allowed but incurred a monetary penalty, so yes it was duelling but it was still rough fighting.

The fact is that combat sports people and MMA people have PROVEN what they can do time and time again. There's hours of stuff on You Tube, DVD's etc.

The onus of proof therefore lies with the KF crowd to prove what they purport to be able to do instead of hiding behind lineage, so called science and stories about masters that are now dust and bones.

Sorry there weren't any spectators with cell phone cams or YouTube during all those battles in the 12th and 13th centuries.

[kiddbjj]

(sigh)

the early UFCs allowed everything except for eye gouging and fish hooking. Even groin strikes were allowed but incurred a monetary penalty, so yes it was duelling but it was still rough fighting.

The fact is that combat sports people and MMA people have PROVEN what they can do time and time again. There's hours of stuff on You Tube, DVD's etc.

The onus of proof therefore lies with the KF crowd to prove what they purport to be able to do instead of hiding behind lineage, so called science and stories about masters that are now dust and bones.

[Tom Yum]

My impression

A legit gong fu stylist is smart with his movement. He doesn't move more than he has to and when he does - he's looking at maximum use of his speed, torque, timing etc.

They spend time on forms buuut put those forms to use - a change in stance is either footwork for evading or charging, changing level of attack, changing COG for infighting etc.


sorry gotta run

[kingoftheforest]

but heck, the UFC proved 15 years ago that combat sport practitioners display the greatest level of fighting skill and have the most efficient means of training. I really dont understand why people choose to ignore the hours of evidence.

That's a misplaced opinion.


combat sport=Dueling The "combat" part is laughable.

[kingoftheforest]

Seems to me all you're doing is bringing the standards of your training down to your own personal limitations, instead of raising to the level of the training required.


Or like so many people you saw KF on T.V. and thought that was real. When your training matches what you see on the Saturday matinee you can be almost positive it's not real.

[kiddbjj]

thanks again for the back up sagacious, you're right i never said practice doesn't make perfect, and for the record i'm 30 years old and not from the MTV generation. I also have 12 years in MA, 6 in KF and 6 in BJJ.

What I'm saying is that clearly there are better ways to reach a desired goal, for example the goal of combat effectiveness. Forms and compliant partner work won't get you there compared to lots of sparring and good technique coaching as problems pop up. ie. applying modern coaching methods.

If you like KF for the sake of the art, then more power to you and I can respect that. BUT if you're of the belief (or being tricked) that forms and air punching will get you to being a good fighter you are simply wrong, no matter how long you persist with it. You may be better than someone with no training but heck, the UFC proved 15 years ago that combat sport practitioners display the greatest level of fighting skill and have the most efficient means of training. I really dont understand why people choose to ignore the hours of evidence.

[ggg214]

ggg214 - while i respect your comment I think that any style that requires you to practice for a ridiculous amount of hours JUST to become competent proves that the style is inefficient.

Not to keep beating the MMA drum but I have seen and sparred with people that have only trained in MMA for 8-12 months (3xweek) and are now powerful and skilled fighters. Why? Because the training methods are geared towards developing real skill under stressful and alive conditions. Not just repetative movement training.

Dude, I used to think like you when I trained KF. I thought KF was the bomb. Then I actually put my ego (and black sash) on the line and became a beginner in a BJJ/MMA gym. Trust me....once you've seen the light you can never go back to being fooled again.

first of all, i don't try to say that kung fu is better than any other styles. i just want to say they are just different.
when i started my training with my current master, i asked him how to test your training, especially one single movement, is good enough. he said simply one movement, one K.O. , no matter what situation you and your opponent is. i think it is an expression of Kung fu's requirement. so you can find out that to reach this requirement, it couldn't only take several months.
anyway, each one have different dreams about the result of MA training.i just dream one day one or two movements of mine can reach the above goal

[Sagacious Lu]

Practice makes perfect. Or am I really just getting that old?

He never said practice didn't make perfect.

Not that you are getting old.

The new MTV generation feel you have to do it within months what takes a few years.

Pretty much anyone is going to be disappointed when after investing several years in a style they realize they're getting schooled by people who have a lousy six months in another style. All of a sudden it becomes obvious that you were so patient that you wasted several years worth of valuable training time.