Abir Warrior Arts

[mellow]

No hard feelings on my part.

[kingoftheforest]

Sorry. i wasn't trying to be a dick.

(I know it's hard to tell right?)

But I just wanted you to have an opinion based on your own personal research.

It makes the conversation better in the long run.

Thanks for making the effort.


The jewish community fought many battles since the beginnings of recorded history.



I can't imagine there aren't some eye witness documents somewhere.

You have to remember also that the Israelites where nomadic and I imagine had to fend off a lot of different types of other nomadic peoples.


I have studied the Tora and I honestly don't remember anything other than the things you mentioned.


However if I'm not mistaken the Tora like the bible is a collection of works.

There are many versions of both, may have been one we haven't seen. Most warrior cultures hide things as best they can for as long as they can.

It's not very often you hear the history channel do a show on "Great Jewish Warriors".

Maybe they were really good with keeping secrets.

[LuohanFist]

So no gimping?
But... I already put the leather suit on...

[kingoftheforest]

So no gimping?
But... I already put the leather suit on...

No offense but unless you're female and large busted, I don't wanna see you in leather anything lol.

[LuohanFist]

Alas, no pony there. I do, however end up at crazy parties.
Back to my corner.

[DaleDugas]

Dale Dugas IS a John Painter product as are all the formula's and pills on the page. You know the page where you recommend products to people?

Let me be as frank as can be.

The persons involved are nothing but internet trolls/clowns who have done nothing but bad mouth me, my teacher, and hide behind the net.

You both are nothing but mouthboxing cowards who hide. sad that you claim to be martial artists and teachers. Real martial artists take on whoever and show them their skills not talk about them on some forum. Seems both TTEscrima and KOTF have nothing to offer real people. Sad.

If you ever met me and said those things to my face, I would pay you money.

You most definitely would not. You would be picking yourselves off the floor wondering where why you were there in the first place.

Neither of you have the spine nor the skills to either replicate what I can do on video, nor in person. hence all you can do is bad mouth me, my teacher rather than step up like real men would do.

I like all this whining about my formulas being from my shifu.

The Dit Da Wan sold on my site are from Mayway. Which is not my teacher, nor is affiliated with my teacher in any manner.

Seems idiots rule here at this unknown martial arts forum rather than adults who can google search a product...

My products are there to help people. I do not sell anything that does not work, and have numerous people who attest to that. Again, seems the cowardly snipers are grasping at straws. again lame attempts that show their cowardice.

Anytime the two of you want to step up, give me an address, I will bring a camera and myself and we will see if your skills can match your mouths.

cowards hide and snipe, real men are known to everyone.

Funny that I post up where I live, teach and have an open door policy.

Why is it that you do not? Oh yeah, because neither of you can back up the BS you spout.

[TTEscrima]

Let me be as frank as can be.

This person is an internet troll/clown who does nothing but bad mouth me, my teacher, and hides behind the net.

You are nothing but a mouthboxing coward.

If you ever met me and said those things to my face, I would pay you money.

You most definitely would not.

You sir, are a coward, with neither the spine nor the skills to either replicate what I can do on video, nor in person.

You really have not a clue.

Anytime you want to step up, give me an address, I will bring a camera and myself and we will see if your skills can match your mouth.

cowards hide and snipe, real men are known to everyone.

I'll be at the Million Dollar challenge when you and your teacher accept the invite, so put up...or shut up.

Show us how you and your teacher move people without touching them Dale, you're such a big talker, accept the challenge hot shot...or STFU.

What a clown...you post vids of your teacher moving people without touching them then you question other peoples skills?

I see the previous posts with the info to contact JREF were removed, so here you go:

The Foundation is committed to providing reliable information about paranormal claims. It both supports and conducts original research into such claims.

At JREF, we offer a one-million-dollar prize to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event. The JREF does not involve itself in the testing procedure, other than helping to design the protocol and approving the conditions under which a test will take place. All tests are designed with the participation and approval of the applicant. In most cases, the applicant will be asked to perform a relatively simple preliminary test of the claim, which if successful, will be followed by the formal test. Preliminary tests are usually conducted by associates of the JREF at the site where the applicant lives. Upon success in the preliminary testing process, the "applicant" becomes a "claimant."

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

[DaleDugas]

actualy if you could use google you would find that these pills are made by Mayway Company which is one of the biggest Chinese Herbal medicine companies in the USA. But it seems you not only fail at google fu, you seems to be unable to man up.

Snipe all you want.

You are nothing but a coward.

Do you know who taught Dale to make those pills you recommend? Dr John Painter.

Do you know whats in them? Tell me about the Hit pills you take before fighting, I see you recommend those so I assume you take them...whats in them?

I'd refer you to the threads about Painters lineage here but they seem to have all vanished.

The Great Invigorator: Bruise Pills
Manufacturer: CDIA, Shifu Dale Dugas

MedicineShen Tong Zhu Yu Wan

This classical Chinese Herbal formula was designed to help move blood, decrease pain as well as help deal with a variety of physical issues.

The Great Invigorator/Shen Tong Zhu Yu can assist with arthritic pain that presents with symptoms of fixed aches and pains that are worse with pressure and tend to be worse during the night, and can include shoulder, arm, low back, leg, foot or hand pain; chronic headaches, irregular menses, menstrual pain and post-partum lower abdominal pain.

This formula can help mitigate problems such as: joint pain, pain in the arms and legs, osteoarthritis, rheumatoid arthritis, rheumatism, bursitis, tendonitis, rotator cuff injury, carpal tunnel syndrome, repetitive motion syndrome, traumatic injury, dysmenorrhea.

The Great Invigorator can be used for acute or chronic traumatic injury.

This formula is designed to be utilized for only a few days, usually 2-3 days maximum.

[TTEscrima]

actualy if you could use google you would find that these pills are made by Mayway Company which is one of the biggest Chinese Herbal medicine companies in the USA. But it seems you not only fail at google fu, you seems to be unable to man up.

Snipe all you want.

You are nothing but a coward.

So you "Master brewers of Jow" actually buy of the shelf eh? LOL. Priceless.

Hey where did your Master Brewer tag go?

Interesting you claim that here because on your page it says.

"All herbal products hand brewed By CDIA Supplies only use the best chemically untreated/Non-GMO Chinese Herbs from US Herbal wholesalers. All formula are created with CDIA Supplies GMP pledge."


Yet on the page where you sell your Bruise pills it says Manufacturer: CDIA, Shifu Dale Dugas

But now you claim they're made by Mayway Company, so which is correct? Do you hand make them or does Mayway company make them?


CDIA Supplies!, Dit Da Jow for Injuries and Iron Palm training

[DaleDugas]

You are a coward.

keep sniping all you want.

Im working on my masters in acupuncture and oriental medicine.

You can say what you will. Its all libel and slander.

[DaleDugas]

So you "Master brewers of Jow" actually buy of the shelf eh? LOL. Priceless.

Keep writing libel.

Its rather amusing.

I make my own medicines and its a known fact. I make medicines that others use, and sell as their own. Seems you cannot grasp simple facts. and attack me again and again and again as well attack my teacher.

I am not afraid of being known, you are.

You attack me and post libelous post after libelous post. Be careful with that. You are writing pure libelous things here that are untrue, and verifiable. I would suggest that you stop while you are ahead.

Seems the truth hurts you. Rather than act like an adult you lash out like an abused child. Were you abused?

You are a sad little person.

Good luck with life. You need it.

[TTEscrima]

Keep writing libel.

Its rather amusing.

I make my own medicines and its a known fact. I make medicines that others use, and sell as their own. Seems you cannot grasp simple facts. and attack me again and again and again as well attack my teacher.

I am not afraid of being known, you are.

You attack me and post libelous post after libelous post. Be careful with that. You are writing pure libelous things here that are untrue, and verifiable. I would suggest that you stop while you are ahead.

Seems the truth hurts you. Rather than act like an adult you lash out like an abused child. Were you abused?

You are a sad little person.

Good luck with life. You need it.

Dale by all means, correct me if I'm wrong. Is that John Painter moving a student without touching him in the video you posted?

Are the pictures of John Painter labeled Capt John Painter not real? Was he A Texas Ranger? A US Army Ranger? If he was I'm terribly sorry, forgive me, please post where I can verify this info and I will make a public apology.

Is John Painter a doctor? Where did he go to medical school and where is he licensed to practice medicine?

I've seen his skills first hand, I was unimpressed, but hey maybe I'm not up on his style of Baqua, who did John Painter learn from again?

And if you didn't have Master Brewer is your sig and profile previously then I was mistaken, forgive me....I await your corrections on my other mistakes so I can correct them.

[DaleDugas]

Good luck with life, you need it

[TTEscrima]

These letters from John Painter posted here: John Painter - Page 8 - Kung Fu Magazine Forums

..................................................................

Here he claims the right the PH.D title "Ph.D. or Dr. title:
I studied Naturopathy and earned my Ph.D. based on a focus of Chinese medicine most notably Acupuncture. My teacher in Acupuncture was Dr. Sun, Lung-pao who was formerly in Hong Kong about 28 years ago. Like it or not the diploma hangs on my wall and I have a legitimate right to use the prefix of Dr. or suffix of Ph.D. on my name."

Correct me if I'm wrong, Acupuncturist are known as D.O.M.s and those who practice Naturopathy are called ND's, not Dr's.

The rest speaks for itself, especially this part: "Yes I use titles in many of my articles and photos. Marketing is the way things are sold. You can r be a dirt poor Bagua teacher who following old traditional ways and hopes student will find you or you can promote yourself. That is how things are done in the USA"

And this: "Yes, I have at times been a bit flamboyant with the marketing I admit that but hey, I have not tried to be blatantly dishonest. I have had some really bad advice from some people handling my marketing and the promotion of my art. It has resulted in some of the flack I am taking on this forum now."

And finally this: "I am not claiming to have studied Baguazhang in China from any famous teachers, masters or to be doing any of the more prevalent styles. I am doing my style my own methods derived form the teachings of one man. I do not know where he got it for sure. I do not care."

Add all that to the videos you posted of him moving people without touching them and here we are.



...........................................................................
John Painter Listens & Answers 1
Dear Friends and Enemies

In the spirit of good will I have edited my original post to remove what some of you found objectionable while leaving the pertinent information.

What an interesting and long-winded discussion this is on my validity as an instructor of Baguazhang. What I can do is give you some facts and you can then make up your own mind. We live in a free country and a free society and I am unlike many of you a professional teacher. I make my living, feed my family and pay my debts from the income made from teaching Baguazhang. So when you attack me you attack my business.

I cannot do anything about that. I can only be as honest and fair as possible and let you make your own decisions. You can then choose to ignore me, curse me, join my school or do whatever. You can shop at any store you choose and you can choose any teacher you want. In the long run it will not change the fact that we have nine schools located around the world teaching this art. Schools that for the most part are staffed by martial art instructors who have at least eight to ten year's experience in other internal styles before switching to the Jiulong Baguazhang system.

I had a teacher he told me his name was Li. He taught me to do many wonderful things he called Chinese methods of defense and health. That is the majority and reality of it. Could he have been named Chang, Yang, Jing or some other name and lied to me yes I suppose so. I really do not care if his name was Rumple Stilkin what he showed me when I was a boy for a number of years changed me and healed me and what I have spent a lifetime working on works.

Li, Longdao was a real man any history is what he told me. I am not a historian and in fact until recently I did not care about any of that or think it was important. I had the methods and I worked with them for years and over time they began to become more and more my own personal way while still remaining true to the Baguazhang core principles.

Talking to the students we have had in the past and the present most of them say they do not care anything about the past history they look at the methods, they train the methods and the methods work for them that is all they or I care about.

I am not claiming to have studied Baguazhang in China from any famous teachers, masters or to be doing any of the more prevalent styles. I am doing my style my own methods derived form the teachings of one man. I do not know where he got it for sure. I do not care.

I know that after observing almost all of the various methods of Baguazhang available and meeting with many well-known teachers over the years that all of the components by which Baguazhang is judged are present in our system. The energies, the methods and the training were part and parcel of the Baguazhang I was taught by my one and only instructor.

So I have every right to call what we do Baguazhang. By using the Name Jiulong Baguazhang or Li family Baguazhang I would hope that it is set apart from the others so there is no mistake that it is a “family style” not of the main stream and not attempting to claim any lineage to anyone other than my original teacher.

We never attempt to hide any truth or knowledge of other methods from our students. I always say this is my way there are many others please feel free to check them out if you like and choose what you like best.

To think that students remain with a teacher because of his link (lineage) to the past is ludicrous. People in the modern world go and do things that make them feel good about themselves and where they are continuously being given interesting, challenging and workable information. This is the real litmus test of a method. It is a free world and a free market and one can look at all the Bagua teachers around and make a free choice.

At my school we seek a free exchange of ideas with everyone. Unlike some we do not restrict our students from investigating other methods and systems. We encourage it! If I have the best interest of my students at heart then if they find something better, I want them to go and do that!

On these things about the history I have told what I was told and so I will not waver as I was there I know them to be the truth up to the person they came from and no matter what the opinions of others those facts remain the same. I am truly, deeply sorry if that offends some of you.

Fact:
Jiulong Baguazhang is a real system of health and martial training that has almost 4,000 students world wide with nine branch schools. It has been continuously taught to students for almost 30 years. Whatever it is or whatever you think it is or where it came from in the past does not change the fact that it is now a reality simply because it is here now and functioning.

I am truly, deeply sorry if some things I have published or said offended some of you. I seek friendships not enemies.


Next post has conclusion......
__________________
Thank you for your patience!
Last edited by John Painter; 02-01-2002 at 12:23 PM.


Bagua Rules Committee
I was asked to chair the committee on writing the rules for judging Baguazhang in international tournaments by the USAKWF and the AAU Kung Fu Association. Now why would they do that if I did not know anything about Baguazhang. I also brought together the first Baguazhang teacher's discussion forum in Houston Texas and later in Winchester Virginia for the express purpose of opening up knowledge of all styles to anyone interested. This was before the Internet was out of diapers. This was attended by a large number of famous teachers and their students and was judged to be most successful.

Mauser Pistols
Yes, the Chinese had .45 cal. ACP broom handle Mauser pistols with interchangeable barrel assemblies that could change the cartridge caliber from 7.63mm to 9mm by removing one pin and sliding on another assembly.

Fighting Knives
Yes the knives in the photos are the ones I choose to use because of their weight balance and size. Yes they can be purchased from a knife catalog. No they are not Chinese knives. They are similar to a design Mr. Li drew for me and I had some customs one's made. I used the ones in the photo, as they are the ones we use in the class we teach. Sorry if this seemed dishonest to some of you.

Yes the photo of me sitting in meditation in the garden is a composite done by the web designer to convey a sense of nature and tranquillity. (really!)

Titles:
Yes I use titles in many of my articles and photos. Marketing is the way things are sold. You can r be a dirt poor Bagua teacher who following old traditional ways and hopes student will find you or you can promote yourself. That is how things are done in the USA.

Biff:
My full name on my birth certificate is John P. (biff) Painter. I went by the nickname for many years until about the third year of college and then dropped it. I did write some articles under that name way back. It is no secret just a name only now used by family and friends.

Ph.D. or Dr. title:
I studied Naturopathy and earned my Ph.D. based on a focus of Chinese medicine most notably Acupuncture. My teacher in Acupuncture was Dr. Sun, Lung-pao who was formerly in Hong Kong about 28 years ago. Like it or not the diploma hangs on my wall and I have a legitimate right to use the prefix of Dr. or suffix of Ph.D. on my name.

Shifu:
I have never asked or expected anyone to call me Shifu or master. I do not think I am a master just someone who has learned a great deal with still more to learn and I am willing to share it with those who have a like interest. My students call me Shifu because I am their teacher that is all. This is a title that may be used by any teacher or one who accepts payment for exchange of knowledge. It does not necessarily denote the term master.




Captain:
The suffix Capt. Appears on most of my work with police and military martial training.
It is used in the ARMLET Company as a designation of skill level much as black-belt is used in Karate. Three are higher levels that this. Everyone is tested in these police skills by an impartial review board.

I am part owner of the company know as American Rangers Martial Law Enforcement Training Institute. I am not a police office or a Texas Ranger, as some people like to state. I have an honorary title of Honorary Texas Ranger bestowed on me by the former governor of Texas. I am also a fully active member of ASLET the American Society of Law Enforcement Trainers and Police Consultants Inc. a Dallas based company.

The company ARMLETI trains combat and military trainers for various agencies. We have one of our people in Israel and we recently have begun working with the Ohio Sheriffs office. You do not get these appointments and memberships by being a fraud!

Six Flags,
What is the big deal with that. Yes, I worked there for a number of year performing and training stunt men in the Western Action show and was featured in their Music Mill theatre with my Houdini escape show. So what....

Yes I was in the film Benji and also For the love of Benji. Look fast when you rent it for the guy shooting the cop as he breaks into the jewlery store. Or just read the credits. Again so what...

The Web Site.
I did the best I could to present to the Internet who we are and where we are. The entire web site was put together by a group out of Canada who helped me as a favor. Yes, I have at times been a bit flamboyant with the marketing I admit that but hey, I have not tried to be blatantly dishonest. I have had some really bad advice from some people handling my marketing and the promotion of my art. It has resulted in some of the flack I am taking on this forum now. I am taking some steps to remedy that and trying to follow my heart in the matter.

You are not asking me to be honest you are asking me to confirm what you already believe to be truth. So yes, the photos have been removed from the site. Not because I fear of some reprisal from certain members of this group but simply for the following reasons
1. They were offensive to some of you
2. They were copyrighted images and as such were not legal to copy and distribute.

This of course will not slow down the controversy. If there were no photos at all on the site some of you would do your best to find something else to point a finger at. At this point whatever I say I will be doomed if I do or doomed if I don't and some of you will **** me anyway. Those of you who have a real curiosity about the Jiulong Baguazhang system that I teach will be able to know by coming to visit me in an open spirit of inquiry and friendship. Attend a program or come as my guest to a workshop at The Gompa.

I do not judge others. I have no, religions or racial prejudices and no animosity towards anyone. In fact a few of you on this group know that I have offered to help you with writing articles and getting them published in national magazines.

Some of you also know that we here at The Gompa have openly promoted your schools and events to others. Yet, because of some discrepancy or suspicion in a photo all of that work is thrown into the toilet as if it never happened! I would hope you were not that shallow. Judge me but at least do it from a person to person perspective based on first person knowledge not based on hearsay. Judge me based on my skills and knowledge and my ability to impart it and it's benefit to others not on rumor.

Am I a liar and a fake? Well that is up to you to choose. You have placed me in a position in which I choose to neither confirm nor deny your allegations. After all what is the point if your mind is already made up. It could have been handled differently. I humbly apologize for any affront or insult any of you may have taken. I will continue doing my best to serve others who are interested in my work and the Jiulong system.

"The evil that men do lives after them, The good is oft interred with their bones"
William Shakespeare, Julius Caesar act III

Thank you for listening!

John P. Painter
__________________
Thank you for your patience!
Last edited by John Painter; 02-01-2002 at 11:59 AM.
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[TTEscrima]

HEHEHE I was neither wrong, mistaken nor lying.

Master Brewer in his sigline...he removed it here, your guess is as good as mine why.



Group: The Tao Bums
Posts: 9
Joined: 15-December 07
From: Quincy, MA
Member No.: 6,954




Let me know if you have any questions.

There are other people who teach Jiulong Baguazhang in Colorado.


--------------------
Be well, train hard

Dale Dugas
Jiulong Baguazhang Instructor
Dit Da Jow Master Brewer

Boston Baguazhang
CDIA Supplies

PO Box 35
Quincy, MA
02171-0001

617-595-8097

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