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wether people want to admit it or not, there are many many techniques in martial arts that just cant be used in mma. for example a great self defense technique is to slam a cupped hand into someones ear, blowing out their ear drum. u cant do something like that in mma. now theres a bunch of jackoffs who will say in reply" well u cant practice something like that on a resisting opponent, so it wont work." thats utter bs, if u have enough skill to parry, dodge, and counter strikes, surely u have enough skill to slap someones ear with a cupped hand. also, there are reasons why u cant use techniques on that on resisting opponents, and its simply because they are just too dangerous. sure not all things work 100% of the time, and there are many variables in fighting, but it is a FACT that there are many techniques in martial arts that just cannot be used in mma, and if u deny this your really not being truthful to yourself.
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Rules are necessary in any competetive event. If not, and say...shots to the groin, eyes, and throat were allowed...people simply would not survive a competitive fight.
True, lets say, if my art were exclusively Kali...or even JKD, I wouldn't do very well in an MMA event because almost my whole arsenal would be gone.
I couldn't do the fast breaks and dislocations that make kali so effective...I wouldn't be allowed to gouge my opponent's eyes or throat like a JKD practitioner would in the street...
MMA is, of course, not a true fight...and shouldn't be. I'm all for LESS rules...but within reason. Kicking a downed opponent is an equalizer for people with minimal grappling skills... so, for that particular reason, I like the way PRIDE and old vale tudo matches used to be.
Naturally, MMA provides a general bias towards grapplers, regardless of whether or not they deal as much damage during the course of the fight (i.e. the Kosheck/Leben bore-fest on Ultimate Fighter)...also regardless of how well a grappler would do in a real fight.
But whose to define a real fight scenario....I mean, how well would most grapplers do if they had to deal with multiple people??? A real fight is unpredictable...plausibly involves weapons and multiple assailants...and doesn't last long (either ends violently, or seems to stop mid-stream with less serious injuries. Most of the street fights I've seen, not all, but the overwelming majority, last about 1 minute or less, and generally involve a few sloppy hits before they're broken up or simply end with no real winner, or some guy bumped up and the other guy out of breath.)
I heard from somebody that they used to hold real knife fights in Vegas...and that they have real full out matches in the Filipines with sticks and go until one person cannot continue. (not tribal matches, but no-holds barred, all out death-matches)
Such a matter is not sport. That is not competition, they are duels to the death, and they would not be pretty...
And whose to say all the technique in the world could save somebody from that one slash or the one strike that they couldn't defend, and subsequently couldn't recover from? Remember, even the best guy on the best day can get beat by a nobody who just gets a lucky blow in.Comment
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I get all of this...but still...what, in your mind, would make Tai Chi effective against a seasoned fighter from any background? It lacks the brutality and straight forward nature of a true MARTIAL art or combat sport.
Anybody can gouge an eye or clap an ear, or chop somebodies wind pipe...it takes no skill, and is extremly effective...but against a better conditioned, well rounded sport fighter (muay thai, mma, boxing, maybe some fma, maybe some trapping from JKD even) who has those techniques already in his/her arsenal...how would a tai chi guy have any chance in hell?
Just wondering...please, I'd like to understand where you guys are coming from...Comment
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What a load of fantasy-boy bullshit.Originally posted by EmptyneSs
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Originally posted by Garland
Not everyone's experience with taijiquan is limited to the old people in the park you see on calcium supplement commercials.
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yet another great post by jumanji who as usual has absolutely nothing relivant to say.Originally posted by jubajiWhat a load of fantasy-boy bullshit.Comment
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Originally posted by EmptyneSs
Look junior, the whole "too deadly" ruse has been debunked time and time again. Give it up already.Comment
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i wasnt really talking about tai chi, i was just mentioned that mma should really be the basis of deciding what works and what doesnt work. as u said yourself, mma is not a true fight.Originally posted by Garland
as for tai chi, real tai chi isnt what u see old people doing. u can download some tai chi clips on some p2p service or something and see that true tai chi is a combat art that has practitioners moving at fast speeds and using weapons and whatnot.
as for the regular tai chi u see in the west that has people moving real slow and meditatiing and whatnot, i will say this. i know of a guy at our gym who was a practitioner of this kind of slow tai chi in addition to other arts. when this guy grapples or spars, his tai chi has enabled him to be so relaxed that he can easily slip out of submission holds and keep his cool when fighting. he definately did get something out of it. but yeah, as many people are trying to say on this thread, true tai chi is a combat art, and it isnt the same as what u see old people doing in the park. its a full speed art that includes weapons.
another thing i wanted to say about techniques that cant be used in mma is take savate for example. savate has a number of devastating kicking techniques that use the shoe as the point of impact. obviously u cant use any of these in mma, but does that make savate useless? i wouldnt think so. is judo a useless art because it relys on the gi for many techniques? u cant use many of the awesome throws in mma since practitioners dont wear a gi.Comment
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Tai Chi...even as a "martial art", like wushu...doesn't really seem to be an effective fighting style. I can say the same for a number of chinese martial arts, ba gua, long fist...etc etc...of all of the chinese fighting methods, san shou (essentially san da), chin na, and chinese wrestling (can't remember the technical term) seem to be the ones that have the highest utility.
And...yes, savate has some good kicking methods using the tip of a shoe...but nothing incredibly original or necessarily exclusive to savate.
Now...Judo on the other hand...is a martial art that does VERY well in MMA. If I remember correctly there was a recent match where an ex-Japanese Olypian won a decision over Royce Gracie.
Martial arts have also evolved a bit. Now that everyone fighting competitively works the ground game...Jiu jitsu, BJJ, Shooto, what have you...people can no longer really rely purely on grappling to win them a fight.
Things will continue to change, and hopefully, as more people cross train other arts...we will see more well rounded fighters emerging within the competition scene.
Now...who would ever want to fight a man like Vanderlei Silva or Pele Landi on the street? Those guys are tough as nails competitors who have good ground games, and supherb stand-up skills...and as natural athletes...I say cross train them a little Dikiti Tirsia, some Inosanto blend FMA, and some Sayoc...and they'd be a true force to be reconed with without a rifle and a good deal of distance.
Now as for the Dim Mak, Atemi, death point pressure voodoo...who knows.
I'll believe it when someone pokes me to death. (no inuendo)Comment
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My money is on this guy vs. any tai chi practitioner that EVER lived.
Parinya Jaroenphon "Nong Toom" (Muay Thai Boxer)
Thailand
Anybody who can kick like that in HEELS.
Good God. Tai Chi guy wouldn't stand a chance!Comment
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some people to check out,
su dong chen - one of the top Students of Hung Yi Sheng, Internal arts fighter and winner of many Full contact bouts and bodyguard. Go see him if you think IMA are ineffective.
Serge Augier - Internal Arts Adept and lineage holder of Ziranmen.
some training videos ...
Master Chen Yun San - Tai Chi master,
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I see a major irregularity in the argument here, you put up the very best MMA and the proffessionals as examples to campare 'tai chi' too. If you are going to do this then compare the best with the best. The guys above are strong powerful and skilled martial artists. They practice the internal martial arts - the Internal MArtial Arts are effective - you are basing your argumnent on modern westernised wu shu - NOT traditional Tai Chi Chuan.
Hard for me to prove anything to you without putting some new stuff on film, as i say i am not a big Tai Chi guy, but i may be able to give you an impression.
chrisComment
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Originally posted by Garland
How the **** do you know? Have you fought or sparred with folks who practice those? You're an idiot
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And there is the problem. Most people have never seen the real deal, and wouldn't know what it is if they saw it.Comment
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Originally posted by chris davis 200some people to check out,
su dong chen - one of the top Students of Hung Yi Sheng, Internal arts fighter and winner of many Full contact bouts and bodyguard. Go see him if you think IMA are ineffective.
Serge Augier - Internal Arts Adept and lineage holder of Ziranmen.
some training videos ...
Master Chen Yun San - Tai Chi master,
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I see a major irregularity in the argument here, you put up the very best MMA and the proffessionals as examples to campare 'tai chi' too. If you are going to do this then compare the best with the best. The guys above are strong powerful and skilled martial artists. They practice the internal martial arts - the Internal MArtial Arts are effective - you are basing your argumnent on modern westernised wu shu - NOT traditional Tai Chi Chuan.
Hard for me to prove anything to you without putting some new stuff on film, as i say i am not a big Tai Chi guy, but i may be able to give you an impression.
chris
Now Thats more like it !!!!!!!!!
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yes I have...and I owned everyone of them.Originally posted by jubajiHow the **** do you know? Have you fought or sparred with folks who practice those? You're an idiot
as I did an aikido guy.Comment
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