Tai Chi,good self-defense art or not?

[Hikage]

I dunno, I don't want to come across as a wannabe, but after this thread was re-opened, I read it again. I must admit that this must be in the top ten for best Jubaji posts, even though to get the whole sense of it, you must read several posts.

Originally posted by jubei__kun
jubaji,

i believe this is meant as a serious post to do with martial arts not spelling and next time instead of critising others for their use of puntuation and what not; why dont u care to divulge some information that is relevant to the topic instead of making fun of others.
and besides what the hell did my reply on this post have to do with ethics?

next time try be more mature plz.



eye dun unstan choo. kud choo wryt lyk mi? 'kus eye kunt wryt lykkyu
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Old 11-05-2003, 10:52 PM #25
tai-gip



jubaji was there a point to your last post
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Old 11-05-2003, 11:55 PM #26
jubaji
Registered User



Isn't it clear?
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tai-gip
----

why isnt my question

should i write it differently for you so you can understand it
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Old 11-06-2003, 01:07 AM #28
jubaji


‚r‚@jubei__kun@can.
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[jubaji]

.................................................

[jubaji]

I don't like mustard...who was the other dude? The butler dude??

Mustard was the only one I could remember.



Captain Relish?

[jubaji]

Professor's are ill...but plum makes me think that fat kid off Willy Wonka.....

Augustus Gloop!!!

[Garland]

More like FAT PURPLE ****. I want to kick that kids ass.

[SimonM]

..................................................

Why?

To be honest it's because there is so few Taijiquan teachers compared to Tai Chi Qigong teachers. Also even Chen Taijiquan contains little aside from grappling and that is like 1/2 of a martial art. Add a good external striking style (like WC) and you get a very good complete martial artist.

[jubaji]

Also even Chen Taijiquan contains little aside from grappling

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[chris davis 200]

he is on of the highes ranking tai chi chaun/baghu/dim-mak instructors in the entire world

firstly - lets not put Mr montegue up as one of the most qualified guys, he may be a good fighter in some respects but there is a whole other level above him.

secondly - at the end of the day everyone can think what they want but if any of you doubters have the chance to visit any of the people i have put forward on this thread as good examples of the arts, then I strongly sudgest you go. Heading down to the local, yoga style tai chi lesson will give you little to nothing of the Authentic Tai Chi Chuan.

cheers

[academian]

firstly - lets not put Mr montegue up as one of the most qualified guys, he may be a good fighter in some respects but there is a whole other level above him

I dont think it is necessary to post his entire history but I will post this:
Erle Montaigue has been practising the martial/healing art of T'ai Chi Ch'uan since 1968. His teachers include Master Wong Eog (1968), Master Chu King Hung (1973) London, Grand-master Chang Yiu-Chun one of only two disciples of Yang Shou-hou. Erle became the first student of Master Chu in London in 1973. Chu was one of three disciples of Yang Sau-chung, (1909-1985) the eldest son of the great master Yang Cheng-Fu. Erle was formally introduced to Yang Sau-chung in 1981 when he visited him at his home in Hong-Kong to have his form corrected.
In 1985, Erle and eight of his students became the first Westerners to be asked to perform at the all China National Wushu Tournament in Yinchuan China. There, Erle was tested by four of the world's greatest Chinese masters and was awarded the degree of "MASTER", the only Westerner to be given this honour.

[chris davis 200]

i know of Erle's history, have spoken to him on a few occassions, met and trained with some of his students and i respect some of his methods. I would say that his Xing Yi and Ba Gua are not as good as his Tai Chi. And there are many others in the west and east with more knowledge of Tai Chi and internal arts in general in my opinion. Not having a go at the guy just saying ...

kindest regards
Chris

[ZillaBilla]

He is on of the highes ranking tai chi chaun/baghu/dim-mak instructors in the entire world.

Mr. Montague is a nice guy, but he's not great, and the most significant of his credentials cannot be verified, in fact there are quite a few overexagerations and discrepancies in his lineage, etc.

Primarilly:

Erle claims his teacher Ho Ho Choy learnt Bagua from Jiang Rong Qiao (JRQ). This is on his website and been repeated countless time by people who did not cross check this claim:

http://www.taijiworld.com/Articles/erle.htm

“ In 1981 Erle travelled to Hong Kong, where his form was evaluated by Yang Sau-chung and where he studied with Ho Ho-choy, a direct disciple of Bagwazhang Master Chiang Jung-jiao ( Mandarin = Jiang Rong Qiao JRQ). “


But the fact of the matter is Ho Ho Choy’s teacher is Gao Yi Sheng. This is clearly stated by Ho Ho Choy’s senior student, and therefore Erle's classmate , world renowned Hong Kong IMA teacher CS Tang :

http://cstang.www3.50megs.com/c_ho.htm

http://cstang.www3.50megs.com/gao.htm

“ Ho Ho Choy was introduced by that guardsman, Mr. Wong, to learnt from Gao “

It is UNDISPUTED common knowledge that Ho Ho Choi’s Bagua teacher is Gao Yi Sheng ( not Jiang Rong Qiao as claimed by Erle)


This is also verified by a Canadian IMA site which has a fairly detailed lineage tree:
Go to this page , scroll a third way down until you find Erle Montaigue & CS Tang in the lineage tree.

http://www.geocities.com/ottawakungfu/250Bagau002Z.htm

In fact nowhere in the known world , except for Erle’s website, does anyone say Ho Ho Choy’s teacher is Jiang Rong Qiao.

Also, Erle learnt everything from Ho Ho Choy via a translator. Hmmm.

There are also several discrepancies in his Tai Chi lineage, which I cant be bothered with at the moment.

I also remember Montaigue backing out of a challenge from Renzo Gracie, brought on by Montaigue publishing a book called (i'm not kidding) "How to use dim mak to beat the grappler".

Also you are probably not aware that Erle studied Bagua for no more than 2 years (max) in Hong Kong under translated instructions.

In other words, its funny to hear Erle claim to be a Master with such a short duration of training. This is also refelcted in a lot of articles on his site, such as where he dismisses certain Fa Jing methods as BS, I spoke to him about it and he said I was unwilingly compliant to them and that they are impossible, even though I have seen and felt several such methods on quite a few occasions.

Anyway, he seems like a nice guy, but he has a big head, and his skill level is nothing special.

[chris davis 200]

good post.

Agreed.

[academian]

Dim Mak vs BJJ OK

Ok so he may not be the best but at least he is on the tree that much is verified and as for backing down from Gracie of course he did Dim Mak kills It is illegal to kill in competition. Can you imagine the reaction if he would have got in the ring and Killed Gracie. It would have been a big sacrifice on his part I dont think too many people would sacrifice their freedom to prove a point.

Competition Grappling and real fighting are two diffrent things BJJ is a sport.

[ZillaBilla]

that much is verified

Thats the point, it's not verified, neither in lineage nor in skill, if you want to blindly worship someone, then you can go ahead and do so, but if you want a more objective view, look for info coming form sources other than Erle.

The BJJ thing, well if Erle is the best in the world at Dim Mak, I would have faith in him not to kill the other guy with his superior skill.

I think before you put all your egg's in one basket, you should check out some other baskets, some are weived much better than the one you got now, though they are harder to find, mainly because they are not marketed in order to make $$$ by selling people videos that claim to teach whole systems, and doing a similar scams online.

[academian]

Thats the point, it's not verified, neither in lineage nor in skill, if you want to blindly worship someone, then you can go ahead and do so, but if you want a more objective view, look for info coming form sources other than Erle.

The BJJ thing, well if Erle is the best in the world at Dim Mak, I would have faith in him not to kill the other guy with his superior skill.

I think before you put all your egg's in one basket, you should check out some other baskets, some are weived much better than the one you got now, though they are harder to find, mainly because they are not marketed in order to make $$$ by selling people videos that claim to teach whole systems, and doing a similar scams online.

I have checked out plenty. I dont really care about lineage and teachers because most of it cannot be verified anyway martial arts evolves. Todays artist are far superior to any lineage head of old because these concepts are public knowlege not secret schools. People mix styles now that was a sin in the old traditions. But now its a given times change and martial arts changes with it.