Tai Chi,good self-defense art or not?

[BoarSpear]

Fill your note book with this

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

Yeah, right. Like doing Kata

[BoarSpear]

The Nine Necessities, 1) Sink 2) Transversness 3) Lift 4) Nimbleness 5) Wrap 6) Straighten 7) Contract 8) Rise Drill 9) Fall and overturn.

These are things on internal fighting styles from the old books on Martial arts, care to discuss them?

[BoarSpear]

Yeah, right. Like doing Kata

Are you trying to be dense?

[treelizard]

The Nine Necessities, 1) Sink 2) Transversness 3) Lift 4) Nimbleness 5) Wrap 6) Straighten 7) Contract 8) Rise Drill 9) Fall and overturn.

These are things on internal fighting styles from the old books on Martial arts, care to discuss them?

I would love to! And also about avoiding the three injuries and about the eight trigrams... And how this fits into TCM (if it does) and its relationship to the Taoist classics (if any).

[BoarSpear]

Nice, at least someone replied to my question which was probably one of the most important q's so far...

Really? so are you packing your bags and headed out?

Then check out these people...The chen lineage is one of many and what is and is not real Taiji is debated even among the clans who founded it

Dr. Jacques Moramarco

Xu Nai Yin

Ma Jiangling

If you're serious you can find what you need from there, if not you wont waste their time will you?

[BoarSpear]

I would love to! And also about avoiding the three injuries and about the eight trigrams... And how this fits into TCM (if it does) and its relationship to the Taoist classics (if any).

Sorry but the triagrams and the Taoist Classics have little if anything to do with taiji. the majority of that nonsense got heaped onto the art by scholors who couldnt fight but really enjoyed sitting around drinking and talking about the arts...

the Actual classics of Taiji were very concise...no nonsense and to the point, anyone can read the original classics in 5 minutes or less, now if you try to read all the BS the scholors piled on top you'll need about 3 lifetimes

[Shard]

"The only way someone can learn how to become a good fighter is to fight on the street, down and dirty, no rule, no pads, full contact, full speed"

"Forms are for demonstration and show. If you want to learn to fight, you practice one move thousands and thousands of times a day, everyday."

~Lui Wan Fu~

I'm going to have to disagree to both points here...

If you can't even fight in a place which ensures your safety and rules to prevent unnessary injuries, how can you even fight on the street. Over-dependence on eye gourges, head-butts and the infamous groin strikes are what gets people into trouble. But i do however agree, with the basic idea, that to be able to learn to fight, one has to fight.

The second paragraph directly opposes the first. To get good at a technique, one must practise it many mant times, yes. But a fight is more than just good technique. Its good timing, distancing and so many other factors.

[SamuraiGuy]

No one even noticed the PMS joke, I thought that was gold!

This is like my very cheesy joke that went unnoticed... man that was a solid joke...

Brilliance is lost on you people....

(now that I think about it the PMS one wasnt that brilliant, BUT THE CHEESE ONE WAS!)

[knifethrower]

Brilliance is lost on you people....

(now that I think about it the PMS one wasnt that brilliant, BUT THE CHEESE ONE WAS!)

No dude, this one had me on the floor

I train Hip Hun Po Gar Kung fu....Im a 307th degree red striped night shade belt.

Fear me.

[SamuraiGuy]

No dude, this one had me on the floor

But that one wasnt a joke!

[BoarSpear]

I'm going to have to disagree to both points here...

If you can't even fight in a place which ensures your safety and rules to prevent unnessary injuries, how can you even fight on the street. Over-dependence on eye gourges, head-butts and the infamous groin strikes are what gets people into trouble. But i do however agree, with the basic idea, that to be able to learn to fight, one has to fight.

The second paragraph directly opposes the first. To get good at a technique, one must practise it many mant times, yes. But a fight is more than just good technique. Its good timing, distancing and so many other factors.

Well YOU go ahead and disagree with one of most famous Chinese Masters and fighters, im sure everyone has way more respect for your opinions than his experiences. and accomplishments

[treelizard]

You don't even have to go to Chinese masters for this if you don't want to, just read about muscle memory, or better yet, observe a baby learning to walk, and then someone who has "practiced" walking a lot. The latter will use much less effort. It's all about the neural network and neuron/muscle pathways, etc.

Now, if you've ever done elder care or worked with people who were bedridden, you will see that people who haven't walked for a long time have to relearn it. Why would it be any different for anything else?

And as far as fighting, wouldn't that make the difference between just memorizing techniques and using them in the context for which they were intended? You can read about this in the book "On Combat," where Lt. Colonel Dave Grossman discusses how learning to shoot a weapon (for example) in a simulation needs to be used in real life at least once before you can transfer your training to reality. I forget the technical terms he used but it was in the chapter on video games. It is absolutely based on scientific and empirical evidence, not mumbo jumbo.

Not that I am dissing Chinese masters!!

Now if only I could find my booklist that my former taiji instructor had for me so Boar could rip it apart...searching through files...

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

Are you trying to be dense?

Duh, i was being sarcastic.

[treelizard]

Here it is...

Book list from one instructor that he gave me when I asked a question in class about something he said that qi gong and weight lifting were not compatible. His response: look at the classic Chinese literature. The books he recommended were

I Ching
Tao Te Ching
Tai Chi Classics
Secrets of Wu Style Tai Chi

From the taiji/qi gong master from Ohio, though these certainly aren't taiji classics (though that's what I asked for).

Art of War
Book of Five Rings
Mao's little red book
On War
anything by Benny Urquidez

He also keeps telling me to do aiki or wing chun and to play chess.