Tai Chi,good self-defense art or not?

[medic06]

From the way I've seen Tai chi, they only train to defend against haymakers. Their little 'use their strength against them' or 'force direction' only works if the guy is drunk and tells you he is goin got hit you before he swings. My friend believed in the little 'use their strength against them' deal and got beaten in friendly fights and by bullies.

I find this funny coming from someone who's name claims expertise in "soft techniques".

[Bjjexpertise@be]

Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is not 'soft' like Chinese Martial arts claim themselves to be. Bjj is simply pitting stronger groups of muscles against weaker ones. The 'softness' that some cma's claim to have is the "I will use your strength against you and destroy you with a fireball" or "I will redirect your attacks and kick you in the balls'.

[medic06]

then why are you still calling it jujitsu if you don't hold true to jujitsu's core principles? Just call it Brazilian submission wrestling.

[medic06]

Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is not 'soft' like Chinese Martial arts claim themselves to be. Bjj is simply pitting stronger groups of muscles against weaker ones. The 'softness' that some cma's claim to have is the "I will use your strength against you and destroy you with a fireball" or "I will redirect your attacks and kick you in the balls'.

Hmmmmm, sounds like you haven't seen any legitimate CMAs practitioners if that's what u think they claim.

[shaolin-warrior]

Not all cma's lay claim to being soft and effective....It is the ballance between the two that should be boasted...although i have been taught some "soft on the surface" forms, once broken down in into combinations can be very hard and effective. " one must look beneath the suface to find true depth in meaning"

[djcaldwell]

Actually the Tai Chi learned here is NOT what Tai Chi was originally developed as. Yes, Tai Chi helps to focus and develop internal strength but the art itself as it was created was quite lethal. The slow movements and soft techiniques utilized today are alterations from its original purpose and those taught in the States were no where near what was orignially desigined in Mainland.

Basically what happended is there was an Emperor (or his son I'm a little foggy on the story it's been a while) but either way he was fat and out of shape and not able to perform the art as it was designed. So, it was modified for him with slower movements and such. As it evolved these movements became common place to what you see today but if you find the old school masters they demonstrate that the movements were actually - fast - hard and extremely effective. Now when it came to the US it was brought here by some of those who not only learned it soft but learned it wrong and it was taught here for YEARS before decendents of the lineage came to the States and saw what others were doing. But by then you try telling someone that they have been teaching and/or learning something wrong for 20-30 years. As you can imagine it didn't go over so well. They refused to change it and thus we come to the conculsion today that Tai Chi guys can't fight, it's not a true fighting method.

All of those statements are incorrect and with all due respect...any statements with regard to the training methods of the shaolin monks is all hearsay. Chinese history with regard to Shaolin is mostly conjecture, as the documents they kept were mostly incomplete and/or missing. As it goes now they still are researching temples and there is SO MUCH CONTROVERSY over them it's crazy. But all that we hear about halls of wooden dummies, and details about Shaolin life and their training are speculation and often legend which in translation over the years has been made fact.

So just be careful because especially here in the states, KF has become that of which movies are made of and the reality is that aside from stories passed down my our Sifu's and local folk tales in China the true histories of the Shaolin temples is a work in progress. Oh, and if you think the Shaolin temple in Henan is in any way a reflection of what it used to be IT'S NOT. It is a tourist attraction and the monks there are nothing more than Wusu Dancers - and this is confirmed by people (martial artists) who I spoke with that have both visited and currently live in China.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

then why are you still calling it jujitsu if you don't hold true to jujitsu's core principles?

Just call it Brazilian submission wrestling[/QUOTE]Because that is what the founding father (helio gracie) called it when he created it. If anyone asks I actually say I do submission wrestling.

Hmmmmm, sounds like you haven't seen any legitimate CMAs practitioners if that's what u think they claim.

And where do you suppose I would find these 'legitamite' CMA practitioners?

[BoarSpear]

J
And where do you suppose I would find these 'legitamite' CMA practitioners?

have you checked your private messages? I sent you one days ago...We are both in fl, and i travel as i told ya...perhaps you just dont really want to see?

[medic06]

Just call it Brazilian submission wrestling

Because that is what the founding father (helio gracie) called it when he created it. If anyone asks I actually say I do submission wrestling.
And where do you suppose I would find these 'legitamite' CMA practitioners?[/QUOTE]

when I find some I'll let you know

I've run across a few, but they are few and far in between. With each successive generation that doesn't train close to real resistance the more watered down and ineffective. It's sort of like tigers raised in captivity.

It's happening to BJJ slowly too. I've run across several people who claim to be proficient in BJJ but I can tell they are frauds. My training consists primarily of Hapkido with a little Judo and boxing thrown in, so I was surprised that when I rolled with one of them not only did I hold my own, but I beat him easily twice.

[djcaldwell]

Wow...there are a bunch of legitimate CMA practictioners out there - I don't know about in your area but in NY alone we have several disciples of the late great Grandmaster Chan Tai San - who passed away last September was was recognized as a Martial Arts Treasure by more than just CMA practitioners. You have Alan Lee still teaching along with his disciples in NYC and who knows how many more. If you really want to find them you just have to do a littel looking.

Yes a lot of KF is getting watered down by video Sifu's who claim a style because they watched videos and opened a school. This hurts big time, it's probably happening to your system and many others as well. It's really a problem because people who have never trained before wouldn't really know any better then to believe what the "Sifu" is telling them.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

have you checked your private messages? I sent you one days ago...We are both in fl, and i travel as i told ya...perhaps you just dont really want to see?

I never check my private mail but I just sent you a message.

[BoarSpear]

I never check my private mail but I just sent you a message.

Sweet, i will try and schedule a side trip, so we can get together and discuss the pros and cons of our training without a keyboard.

[HuSanYan]

My encounter with large street gang

I used my Tai Chi to take out more than 30 members of a street gang recently, they were all armed and I only used my bare hands in slow graceful movements with correct breathing.

[BoarSpear]

I used my Tai Chi to take out more than 30 members of a street gang recently, they were all armed and I only used my bare hands in slow graceful movements with correct breathing.

I doubt you could win against the 30 old people in the celebrex commercial

[gong fu]

i study tai chi, i have fr a long time it is very good for "self defence" if you actually understand taiji as a whole, those forms you speak of are for gathering and cultivating qi and jing strenthening, shen searching, and many other reasons you dont start doing a taiji chi cultivation in the middle of a fight, and get your ass kicked, but it teaches you valuable lessons in a whole, like force on force the natural way, balence swift flowing motion sturdyness, concerntration many other things,