??? re Greg Alland tapes...

[tigrtclaw]

Do we really have a fight?

Well now,This is all getting very interesting Ha Hah!
Anyone else want to see this?
Is Michael Olive going to mix it up with MA Mike on the card?

[ruffstuff]

the truth

Hello everyone, Kamasta ka

It is true that the negativity has nearly climaxed. Hate to see it. This forum is like the shot heard around the world. Everyone wants the truth. The reason I got on here was to help clear the air, if I possibly can. After the slap in the face I got today.

Here goes...........

Questions about Matahari Tuhon 'Nene' Tortal's Tour.

Who organized it? Greg....

Who paid for the round trip tickets for GM and Master Jerson Jr.? I did!

Who paid for the flight tickets for GM's second(independent) tour? Michael G. Olive, Detective David Rice and myself.

Who arranged the Dekiti-Tersia Siradas demonstration at the 'Show Me State Games'? Michael G. Olive and Master Dexter.

Who arranged the meeting with GM 'Nene' and Guro Dan Inosanto?(the slap in the face)? I did, with the unselfish help of Brian Rideout of Rising Pheonix Martail Arts in Evansville, IN-USA. For whom I am very thankful.

I also want to publicly say thank you to Joel and Guro Dan for being so to kind and pleasant to us. The dinner was great too............. GM gave Guro Dan a Kampilan as a gift and the specially made Ginunting is being forged as we speak.

Is Dekiti-Tersia Siradas part of the Kali-Silat System? Only the first 12 basic attacts. Dekiti-Tersia Siradas has 5 seperate sets of the 12 basic attacts.
12 basic attacks with baston.
12 punyo attacks with baston.
12 thusting attacks with baston.
12 sac-sac attacks with blade
12 pacal attaks with blade
Even have a pac-sac blade system.

I was also with them during one of the trips to Washington D.C.. To visit the German the embassy(waisted trip). I have spent a total of 6 weeks with GM 'Nene' in the last 6 months. And yes, some of those weeks were very painful(but well worth it). GM's Dumog and Buno skills are awsome. I speak to Master Jerson Jr. nearly every night as well. And will be spending the holidays with them in Negros. My Point is, if anyone has any questoins. SHOOT! The negativity needs to STOP. If I do not know the answer, I will get it.
Talaam..............

God Bless, Mike Snow

[BB408]

Who arranged the Dekiti-Tersia Siradas demonstration at the 'Show Me State Games'? Michael G. Olive and Master Dexter.

I have some video footage of this demo that clearly shows participation by Mr. Olive.

[kaliace]

I have some video footage of this demo that clearly shows participation by Mr. Olive.

Grand Master and I were working the Long Stick. Needless to say he threw me around like I was a rag doll! It was a good time but on the hardwood….ouch!

Michael G Olive

[Kali Novice]

Yo,

Sorry to be beating a dead horse due to a lack of other method to get anywhere (I also apologize for the horrid metaphore.), but, what exactly is the issue with Greg over? Or rather, what is the purpose to the entire sequence of arguments between MA Mike and Kaliace?

I'm obviously not connected into any of this, am a total greenhorn, and all of that, but if someone could explain why exactly Greg's blending of systems is considered to be such a crime, I'd greatly appreciate it. I can see why he shouldn't promote his own system and call it Tortall's just to promote himself, and I don't know if he does or not; but, why does the 'purity' of a system matter? Wouldn't it be a good thing to change and evolve a system? I suppose it could complicate matters, but if you get a blend of styles, can't you have a complex system with things that're easier to learn and use for certain types of people?

Like I said, I'm no one of any intellegence in these matters, but I'd like to be able to pass off my lack of understanding on an ignorance or lack of exposure and/or explination. Certainly don't intend to get into anything heated or testy, as things have seem to have done here.

[danjuandesiga]

but, what exactly is the issue with Greg over? Or rather, what is the purpose to the entire sequence of arguments between MA Mike and Kaliace?

It was about the tapes Greg Alland has on the market and what others have thought of them. Also about his legitimacy as a certified instructor in the Pekiti Tirsia system through Tuhon Leo Gaje Jr.

I personally think the tapes are crap. Other than that I know nothing else about the man.

Dan Juan de Siga

[ruffstuff]

blending and offending

To whom it may concern,

For starters. The reason I engaged this for forum was to say that GM himself wants the negativity to stop. He is not only a true warrior that survived the Japanese during WWII. But more impostantly a very spiritual man. He does NOT appove of a student calling another childish names.

If people want to blend systems fine. More power to them. As long as they have the permission for the grandmaster of that system.

GM has given me his blessing to continue my studies in Harimau, Matjan, Kuntoa, Doce Pares, Bugua Zhang and Shuai-Chao. But, he insists that if I wish to learn his entire family system, not to blend and teach them that way. I don't think that is too much to ask. It Is THE Tortal family treasure. I asked if I could learn Dumog and Panantukan while in the Philippine. He told me I was welcome to learn his boxing and wrestling as well as from other instructors.

As for evolution. Until people are able to strike you dead by thought process alone. Dekiti-Tersia Siradas pretty much has everything covered. The more I learn ,the more I realize DTS has everything. It is a full combat system. Punching, kicking, knees, elbows, thows, sweeps, locks, traps, deflections, destructions, groundfighting, reversals, knife, sword, stick, staff, spear. Need I go on? On a modern note. GM teaches the US and Philippine military close range combat. PR-24, batonet fighting, carbine and handgun disarms. He even teaches how to fight with your hands tied.

If you look hard enough, you'll find there are a very small handfull of systems that have everything you need. All tought to GM by his family, not from other styles.

And now for Kaliacw and MA Mike. A few people are upset with Mike Olive for following the leader. He decided to learn diectly from GM tortal and a few people did not like that. A few people are just taking sides. As for MA MIke, he should inquire a little before going off the deep end. But, I do have to say he has not had the chance to meet GM and get more information about the DTS system. And for that I feel very bad for him and the other students in Germany. MA Mike is more than welcome to contact me at anytime and I will be more than willing to give him GM and Master Jerson Jr's contact information. Whatever he wants, Sandata, pictures, anything I can do just say the word.

God Bless, Mike Snow

[ruffstuff]

blending and offending

To whom it may concern,

For starters. The reason I engaged this for forum was to say that GM himself wants the negativity to stop. He is not only a true warrior that survived the Japanese during WWII. But more impostantly a very spiritual man. He does NOT approve of a student calling another childish names.

If people want to blend systems fine. More power to them. As long as they have the permission for the grandmaster of that system.

GM has given me his blessing to continue my studies in Harimau, Matjan, Kuntoa, Doce Pares, Bugua Zhang and Shuai-Chao. But, he insists that if I wish to learn his entire family system, not to blend them and teach it that way. I don't think that is too much to ask. It Is THE Tortal family treasure. I asked if I could learn Dumog and Panantukan while in the Philippine. He told me I was welcome to learn his boxing and wrestling as well as from other instructors.

As for evolution. Until people are able to strike you dead by thought process alone. Dekiti-Tersia Siradas pretty much has everything covered. The more I learn ,the more I realize DTS has everything. It is a full combat system. Punching, kicking, knees, elbows, thows, sweeps, locks, traps, deflections, destructions, groundfighting, reversals, knife, sword, stick, staff, spear. Need I go on? On a modern note. GM teaches the US and Philippine military close range combat. PR-24, batonet fighting, carbine and handgun disarms. He even teaches how to fight with your hands tied.

If you look hard enough, you'll find there are a very small handfull of systems that have everything you need. Everything was tought to GM by his family, not techniques from other styles.

And now for Kaliace and MA Mike. A few people are upset with Mike Olive for following the leader. He decided to learn diectly from GM tortal and a few people did not like that at all. Aan a few people are just taking sides. As for MA MIke, he should inquire a little before going off the deep end. But, I do have to say he has not had the chance to meet GM and get more information about the DTS system. That's NOT his fault. And for that I feel very bad for him and the other students in Germany. MA Mike is more than welcome to contact me at anytime and I will be more than willing to give him GM and Master Jerson Jr's contact information. Whatever he wants, Sandata, pictures, anything I can do just say the word.

God Bless, Mike Snow

[Kali Novice]

First off, thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I was sincerely hoping that because this board is full of people who are so diverse and experienced that I could get intellegent and informed answers.

If people want to blend systems fine. More power to them. As long as they have the permission for the grandmaster of that system.

. . . .

But, he insists that if I wish to learn his entire family system, not to blend them and teach it that way. I don't think that is too much to ask. It Is THE Tortal family treasure.

While I understand the Tortal 'family treasure' holds a great deal of meaning on a number of levels, including but not limited to cultural, religeous and familial, it's not something that can be lost because it's shared, is it?
It makes sense if he wishes to teach that style alone, but because it is such a fine and complete system, isn't it a good thing that other martial artists are taking these practices and incoorperating them into their own training?

While Dekiti-Tersia Siradas is a full combat system, the sheer amount of experience and interest in other styles by the people on this board leads me to make the assumption that there's an agreement to the benefits of practicing other styles. It's never a good idea to make assumptions, I know, but isn't it always better to have a little more in your arsenal? Of course, I could be missing something; I have no place to be discussing the deeper levels of the martial arts.

Having said that, I was lead to understand that Greg is no longer calling the style he teaches Dekiti-Tersia Siradas. Are the politics around Mr.Alland based on the use of the Tortal fame to spread his own system, which would seem not to be a problem if it is true that he is no longer calling his style DTS, or are they pertaining to the fact that he is blending them at all in his teachings?

Terribly sorry to preach, but if it is the blending in itself, I fail to understand the crime and almost have the gall to applaud him for teaching a blend; Fillipino Martial Arts are relatively unknown to such a vast number of people here in the United States that there is little opportunity to learn the styles seperately. I don't know the situation in other countries, and because Greg teaches all over the world, I suppose that's a rather sorry argument on which to base an opinion on his actions, though....

Of course, it is possible that I was misinformed about Greg's re-naming of his system. If such is the case, I hope that those more affiliated within the FMA community can fill me in.

Thousand thanks, and pardon the rambling. I hope I haven't overstepped my boundaries, I should use less bold ways of expressing the points at which I'm confused, but that'd make these posts even longer!

[TopDog]

This is a Very Hot Thread!
Some very interesting posts on here. I've learned a lot about thing's I never even considered before. I mean what's going on in the background of the seminars and the instructors.
I also learned about some new interesting people including Mike Snow and Mike Olive and also more about Master Tortal.
Now just who is the VT3 guy anyone know? I copied the posts and had sent them to Mr. David Tanner at his Email.

I'd like to hear David Tanners and Greg Allands side to all of this too.

[ruffstuff]

Waves

Hello Top Dog,

I am not trying to cause any waves. Actually trying to calm to current a little bit. That's why I joined the forum just a few days ago. As I am sure you have noticed from my posts. I am not a 'cyber or typist Guru' by any means.

I have no idea what MA Mike was told. Just wanted him to know that Michael G. Olive is a really good hearted and dedicated person. That he is always welcome to contact GM at anytime. And a little information about Dekiti-Tersia Siradas. I hope to meet MA Mike, Andy and all of the other insrtuctors in Germany during Grandmaster Tortal's trips in the future.

I have not had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Tanner. I do know Master Greg though. I have no ides who anyone else is.............to be honest with you.

The seminars are normally not negative at all. I have had the opportunity to meet some really great and tallented people in the past few years through seminars, competitions and gatherings.

Best regards, Mike Snow

[B.T.E.]

~~~~~~~~~~

[Kali Novice]

Yo,

I don't think anyone doubts Greg's skills; I've been able to go to a few seminars of his, and he's shown himself to be very versatile and capable as well as a good teacher. I never knew him well enough to make any commentary on his personality, but I'm still confused on what exactly the issue is.

Is it about the fact that he has blended styles?
If so, the only problem I could possibly see is if he were calling the changes a part of Tortall's system. Even then, I scarcely see the problem, but because someone kindly pointed out the history and values the system holds to their family, I can understand the problem, even if I disagree on the primary level.

I'm terribly sorry if I sound too based torwards Greg, when I by no means have enough training to make an intellegent commentary on martial arts and have had no real exposure to any of the men being discussed outside of a student-teacher setting. I'd just like to get the facts straight, because I enjoy Kali immensely and saying "Why can't we just all get alone and train" is a simplistic, childish view that undermines the issues which I, granted, do not understand.

Thanks, as always, for the insight. I hope I'm not overstepping my boundaries or seeming to impatient or ignorant because of the questions.

[danjuandesiga]

It's all cool

It's cool. I can respect the man for being an active practicing martial artist and that I would love to truly believe that he IS much, much better with his skills in practice as opposed to what I had seen from his "Fear No Man on Earth" tape sets.

I'm not knocking them man for his capabilities as a *Flip Martial Artist. I personally think that much, much better work could have been done in the production of those tapes.

I simply don't find the tapes appealing enough. And believe ME.. I did try to follow along with the program but I just couldn't.... it just was not 'cutting-it'.

I can't and won't apologize for my opinion ABOUT the TAPES produced by P. Greg Alland. (yes, I'm sticking to the subject of the thread here, homies).

JUST TO REMIND YOU GUYS.... I have not, and am not saying anything "bad" or trash-talking the dude.

I trashed the tapes instead.

The art of Pekiti Tirsia Kali (and DTS, etc.) is one very beautiful art as it is freakin DEADLY! I love it and respect what the Tortal family have done to promote their skills and share to the martial arts world what they got. Those guys rock!

-Rock on withyour stick on!

SIncerely,
Daniel Arola

[kaliace]

Yo,

I don't think anyone doubts Greg's skills; I've been able to go to a few seminars of his, and he's shown himself to be very versatile and capable as well as a good teacher. I never knew him well enough to make any commentary on his personality, but I'm still confused on what exactly the issue is.

Is it about the fact that he has blended styles?
If so, the only problem I could possibly see is if he were calling the changes a part of Tortall's system. Even then, I scarcely see the problem, but because someone kindly pointed out the history and values the system holds to their family, I can understand the problem, even if I disagree on the primary level.

I'm terribly sorry if I sound too based torwards Greg, when I by no means have enough training to make an intellegent commentary on martial arts and have had no real exposure to any of the men being discussed outside of a student-teacher setting. I'd just like to get the facts straight, because I enjoy Kali immensely and saying "Why can't we just all get alone and train" is a simplistic, childish view that undermines the issues which I, granted, do not understand.

Thanks, as always, for the insight. I hope I'm not overstepping my boundaries or seeming to impatient or ignorant because of the questions.

Kali Novice,

Welcome to the tread. I was wondering where you are in Missouri. You say that you have been to a few of his seminars, which ones did you attend? In keeping with the original thread do you have any of his tapes?

I hope to hear from you soon,

Michael G Olive

https://www.rattanclub.com