Judo cont'd

[greenthing]

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[greenthing]

Originally posted by IPON
Dude you are starting to crash again. I suggest increasing the doses of lithium, haldol and xanax and wash it down with 2 bottles of vodka and a lime twist.

HEY TURN AROUND THEY ARE BEHIND YOU....COMNING TO TAKE YOU BACK TO YOUR NATIVE PLANET

I wish they would hurry up.
What is your claim to fame anyway?Do you play Judo? Or what?

[Toudiyama[NL]]

I do ask why you visit discussion forums as you are never really discussing

You are like someone that doesn't know anything about building but first wants to learn how top build a bridge instead of first learninmg the priciples, so one can be shure it will be a sound bridge

You see leaning to Breakfall is learninng to lose, maybe but then again 50% of people entering a match will lose

You want people to learn how to cartwheel out of a throw, but tto learn that the opponent needs to be able to do the throw properly, which he can only do if he can train them properly, if you can not yet cartwheel out of it, he can't finish the throw
breakfalling one can learn even if the others do not know how to throw properly

It doesn't sound like you want to make judo better, you want to make it unsafer instead

[IPON]

I have no claim to fame......I merely travel the deserts of the cyber lands seeking new information and in my travels...I may..perhaps offer insight (insert - KUNG FU theme music).

Seriously I studied judo under Shiro Oishi Sensi. I guess I just do not understand your point. The point is not about judo the point is learning. Would you give keys to a car to somone who has never even been in a car and say .... Drive. What about someone who has never cooked would you say here are vegetable, meat and spices......overthere is an oven and other cooking utensils make chicharron, chuletas or chicken marsala.

Your interpretation, to be honest is not just flawed but strange. nobody considered being thrown in judo, jj, aikido, HKD etc. practice as defeat or loosing or any of that negative nonsense. The way you are saying it the tori should be a white belt but the uke should be brown or black becuase the lower rank should not be taught to fall?? On the mat it is interpreted as just part of learning. If you go into the dojo and view everything as win/loose, one will get frustrated and more importantly miss the purpose of training

And am I correct you think people should learn to cartwheel out of a throw before learning breakfalls??

And playing Devil's advocate - why have we had all of these great judokas since people ingest this loosing mentaliy when they are thrown?? Seriously man....stop the armchair intellectualization, why should we do this or that. How bout judo practice with shoes, judo with jeans, judo on granite, judo with gloves and of course the ever popular judo with NINJAS.

[greenthing]

I actually haven't found anybody worth talking to.Dishonest .Immature

[IPON]

Kevin man you were starting out OK.....now you are seriously starting to wig-out. Why can you not undersatnd that people are not interpreting and ingesting your delusional psychosis as you do. Yes there are improvements that can be make in training I am sure. You can argue the merit of japanese pushups or (can't remember teh name) carrying somone on your back while doing laps around the dojo (bad at least for my back) etc.

Remember like all MAs, even the ones that are sports oriented they are not taught nor do people take them purely for the sport aspect. There are Judokas who do not want to compete, just like there are many people who study MT, BJJ, TKD etc that are not interested in competition.

I think you are grasping at straws. Again, the first point is that pracicing any MA is not about win/loose one should not have that mentality...Ultimately that is the answer to your questions. Also, the purpose of the breakfalls are not so much about being thrown but how to land, THAT IS COMMON SENSE my friend. There is nothing esoteric about what I am saying, and I am certainly not brainwashed by any mysticim I would think you would know that from previous posts.

but you never answered my question, if what you say is true why are there so many judoka globally that do not suffer this low self esteem from al the "negativity" in practice. And what about the other arts why ar they not suffering.

Maybe you can send Helio Gracie an email and tell him that he won the 2nd match only becuase Kimura started to remember all of the negative aspects of judo training and got depressed before the fight. Also, let him know that he and his sons would be much better MAs if they never practiced breakfalls or taught how to fight in the guard becuase of all the "negative" mind warping it causes to be on your back.

Although now that I am typing this it almost seems phallic....I like it when I am in the guard with my girlfried....I don't know if her JJ is good I never tried to passed the guard

Seriously, I just hope you are saying some of this stuff to yank people chain. Becuase It seems you have knowlege to contribute but you have to accept bewrong or not completely right. That is the true genesis of progression.

But at the end of the day take your medication with water go in the corner and start rocking back and forth and we can agree to completely disagree.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

So we have to take it that you have never been thrown in an ippon during competition, nor in a Waza ari , in fact you must always have landed on your feet seeing you cartwheel out of a throw

Even though the object of the sport is to throw the other side on their back you don't want people to learn how to limit the damage done by this action

Why learn someone the use of the safetyshute, that is defeatist thinking
And af coarse you do not use a seatbelt in the car because then you admid that you might be in an accident


since you want to go for the complete package strait away, I bet you didn't need to learn the alphabet either, you started to learn to write whole sentences strait away


If you want to know what's wrong with Judo, it Yugo's and Koka's.

In my country Judo is one of the sports you can choose at the Academy for Physical Education (to bbecome a teacher), with all these sport together, you want to tell me they wouldn't have changed the trainingways if they were so totally flaud as you claim, come on man I know these guys if it would speed up the process and better the results they would have changed it without any hestitation
Now you will say they didn't because they were indoctrinated, by what? the teacher of Didactics teaches both for people doing Judo as those doing atletic or volleyball

[greenthing]

I didn't think the Gracies entered into Judo contests. I thought they didn't know how to throw. Actually Royce Gracie is a personal hero to me , in UFC #1 I immediately recognized him as being a very good Judo player. Very classy fighter.

The competition is with yourself. Contests are actually a reflection of the acomplishments within that individual. I don't think anyone ever has started a sport wanting to fail or to learn it badly. So in that sense it is a very easy thing to claim that is what it's all about.Success within.Competition with yourself. The learning process.

I am not sure what your question is. But it is only in the U.S. where the bowing and Shinto religous ceremonies are made so important. Many clubs in Europe and Tokyo do not enforce bowing. Yet it is almost impossible to find such a club in the U.S..
American Judo has failed for 100 years,including 50 years of organized failure since 1952, under 4 conflicting organizations. Unlike in other Olympic sports, Americans in Judo pretend to be Shinto.It doesn't work.

Bowing promotes uncritical thinking which leads old fashioned training methods.

[greenthing]

Originally posted by Toudiyama[NL]
So we have to take it that you have never been thrown in an ippon during competition, nor in a Waza ari , in fact you must always have landed on your feet seeing you cartwheel out of a throw

Even though the object of the sport is to throw the other side on their back you don't want people to learn how to limit the damage done by this action

Why learn someone the use of the safetyshute, that is defeatist thinking
And af coarse you do not use a seatbelt in the car because then you admid that you might be in an accident


since you want to go for the complete package strait away, I bet you didn't need to learn the alphabet either, you started to learn to write whole sentences strait away


If you want to know what's wrong with Judo, it Yugo's and Koka's.

In my country Judo is one of the sports you can choose at the Academy for Physical Education (to bbecome a teacher), with all these sport together, you want to tell me they wouldn't have changed the trainingways if they were so totally flaud as you claim, come on man I know these guys if it would speed up the process and better the results they would have changed it without any hestitation
Now you will say they didn't because they were indoctrinated, by what? the teacher of Didactics teaches both for people doing Judo as those doing atletic or volleyball

What emphasis is placed on the bowing and Japanese religous ceremonies.Is everything taught in Japanese.Do they teach it moving or try teach everything standing still? .Its sounds like you probably have a combination of classical and modern training methods.
Also its sounds like a bureaucracy which is not endemic to change.The bureaucracy is a self protecting self supporting institution.Maybe they are busy covering for each other instead of wanting to rock the boat. Are they granted a job for life?Are they free to speak up? Will they lose their pensions? Who is in charge of the whole thing?Has the training changed much since Anton Geesink's time (1960's).
Are there any independent Judo club's in your country?Are there
any free thinker's or does everybody have to conform.Are the bowing rules enforced?Do they ban people because they can't or won't bow?
I don't know how things are but I am very interested to hear it first hand. If your government provides for the Judo University how do they protect people's religous freedom's.

[IPON]

Toudiyama[NL] hey man we tried but rational thought cannot exist in an irrational mind. And I can't take all of this conspiracy theory garbage.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Originally posted by IPON
Toudiyama[NL] hey man we tried but rational thought cannot exist in an irrational mind. And I can't take all of this conspiracy theory garbage.

Man is he paranoid, I was in the assumption that I made clear this is an academy where all sports work together, I do not see what's the use of hiding something
the academy diplom allows you to be a PE teacher in Highschools and uni's, Judo is just an extra specialism

If the methods are so flaud, all people comming from the academt with Judo must have been brainwashed that they don't see the difference

That's it the Academy is a secret Shinto sect that brainwashes it's students

And they call me paranoid for not thrusting Dick Cheney


PS how good is your throw if your oponent can cartwheel out of it?
And what do you do if during practicing the cartwheel escape you do not do it ok and land on you back anyway?
What if because of you trying the cartwheel your oponet loses grip and you drop down, possibly on your head?
Call me crazy but I rather like the old fashioned but safe sequence of working

Kev, your problem is you think too much, your time is better spend training
I would have liked to have said :" Go and start teaching yourself" but I think your way is dangerous
In the mean time get instruction on how to teach, psychology and physiology, then you will have validity to change the teaching methods, then you might have the right arguments to do so.

[IPON]

LMAO....exactly!!!!!! I didn't want to go there about teh cartwheel U R 100% correct. I think that since the cartwheel is difficult enough to execute corectly for the average person that fall is more sensible. But the real point, like you said, is how often do you think you can cartwheen from judo thrown, counter the throw or fall but cartwheel I guess it is possible but I have never seen that..especially in a match.

BTW have americans been practicing judo since 1903??

[greenthing]

To Toudyama in The Netherlands:

You never have seen someone turn out or into a throw. That's the same as a un successful attempt at throwing.The person lands
somewhere but not on his back.no score .Come on you are nit picking.Answer my question please do you bow at your Judo university?Do you bow for the other sports? Of course not.But do they ban you for not bowing ,is it mandatory part of the curriculum?That will show if they perpetuate the old fashioned status quo.Simple but lets get off the bowing as we are beating a dead horse.It is only a symptom anyway. If it is a classical type of situation they would not appoint anyone into a position that would not "Play Ball". Typical of a bureaucracy to perpetuate itself.
France is the same way with a giant Judo program I think goverment sponsered.In the U.S. they ( the national organizations)have recently demanded registration of coaches.
Do you think there's any politics involved in Judo? Between Japan and Korea(South) awful amount of money involved between T.V. and advertising I can imagine. The I.J.F. has employed the giant corporation Hundai to P.R. and promote Judo worldwide.They shouldn't feel threatened either because people want to conform Judo to their cultures,improve and what they think modernize the sport.People should be helping to make it more inclusive, better, newer, more exciting.

[IPON]

Politics begins with 2 or more people and MA organizations are not immune. Not just judo ALL. Wake up!! What you are taking about has more to do with teh cancer of american capitalism than anything and at the endof the day so what. I bow within japanese, chinese and korean arts and within different venues that are unrelated to MA again it is an issue of respect. In the kwoon, dojo, dojang I refer to the instructor by title I think it is disrespectful to do other wise, other people have thier opinion. I believe in tradidition and that you don't have to sacirfice tradition for modernization.

The discussion started with throwing and falling why can you not admit that you and your instructor are simply not right. You have gotten responses from two people who are not brainwashed and have not conformed to the shinto ways. It just simply does not have that much power and to think so is well.....STUPID.

If I go to a mosque or synagog for a service does that brainwash me and make want to convert....NO. Has there been perportionate growth in shinto followers as a result or enrollment in Dojos.

And again, why just judo why not Aikido. Seriously man this old and you are tired just grow the eff up. I don't think your coach ever complained about your bowing techniques when you two had you private sessions

[greenthing]

What? Feel better now?- We are talking about a sport and you are talking about martial arts? Judo is a sport .Olympic sport.
No more no less.Not a cult just a sport.
Kano's own words say it is a sport!