What's wrong with karate?

[brokenelbow]

Maybe Sensei John Flavell is good but he better work on those students. Locked legs, no hips in the punches. Looks like bad karate to me.

[Karate_is_cool]

"martial arts" the term isnt "street cred"

in my humble opinion martial arts is more of a mind set then anything else, it doesnt prepare you for a street fight, truthfully a guy with a good street fight belt behind him would ruin most "martial artists" because he knows what to expect and how to counter such expectations...

the arts is a academic reasoning... it teaches disicpline and focus... not how to beat up a guy who doesnt like your t-shirt...

nothing is wrong with karate or any other MA... its the people who think there is..

if you want to be able to fight on the street, then go fight, loose, and understand how to complete such ideals... it has nothing to do with the MA your practicing at the time



peace

well wouldnt that depend if that street fighter knew what the martial artists had up their sleeve? I do agree though. A good street fighter could mop the floor with a lot of martial artists. but its not always the case. it depends on who you fight. What i think gives them their edge is their mentality. They're used to the violence, they dont get nervous, they're confident. They got the experience. i bet if you had a martial artist with a similar mind set and the street experience he would mop the floor with those street fighters.

[darrianation]

well wouldnt that depend if that street fighter knew what the martial artists had up their sleeve? I do agree though. A good street fighter could mop the floor with a lot of martial artists. but its not always the case. it depends on who you fight. What i think gives them their edge is their mentality. They're used to the violence, they dont get nervous, they're confident. They got the experience. i bet if you had a martial artist with a similar mind set and the street experience he would mop the floor with those street fighters.

That’s one of the big points I make. Most traditional karate schools don't teach mind set and adrenaline response. They teach you to punch then they simply think you can punch under any and all conditions which just is not true.

Another problem they teach crap like punch out and sit deep in your stance (shotokan karate) and hold your fist out for a split second blah, blah. Yes this is powerful but unpractical. I notice a lot of karate people push their punches (and think pushing is the correct way) and don't retract them soon enough. These (as well as others) are big mistakes.

Performing kata and marching up and down the floor, practicing over exaggerated blocks and strikes in low deep stances (in shotokan, I know not all karate styles use the low deep stances) striking nothing but thin air doesn’t do a thing to help you be a better fighter.

You need realistic scenarios (recreations or simulations of things that really have happened or could realistically could happen in real life), hard contact sparring, contact to the head, And self-defense practice against uncooperative partners, ground fighting and drills that are specific to self-defense, as well other modern day scientifically proven approaches.

When it comes to real self-defense you need to be offensive and brutal, fight with ferocity and tenacity. Far too many Karate schools just don't teach this way.

[Thai Bri]

Hallellujah!

[Nit]

FFS I go away for a month and when I come back your all still having the same argument.

Go do some training, preferably with a big scary guy that you find unbeatable, when you beat him find another scary guy and train with him.

[Thai Bri]

Have you got the pressie?

[cross]

To all the people trying to defend karate,

Why are you all so worried about the opinion of people you are probably never going to meet??

get used to the fact that everyone has there own opinion, and nothing you say on a message board is going to change that.

If you choose to train in karate then do it, but face the facts:

Karate was created for civil self defence, not to do well on a battlefield, or in the ring. Its your choice weather you want to train in it or not.

So stop complaining that not everyone wants to do karate and not everyone likes karate.

Just get over it.

[sherwinc]

This is kind of a carry over thread from the thread “So what can be done to fix Karate?”
Irrigator Writes:
“let me start out by saying that im far from any kind of master. ive studied martial arts some, and philosophy some too. despite my limitations in classroom study, the only thing that ocurs to me upon reading your question "what can be done to fix karate?" is 'what did you miss in your journey that makes you think a fix is necesary?'. to my way of thinking, 'fix' implies that its broken in the first place, to which i can only respond that you are probably mistaking a por teacher for a broken system.
In america, we suffer a letigious society. This being the case, the introductory levels of many styles have indeed been 'watered down', however, at the advanced levels, the various systems remain dependant upon lineage. that is, one cannot teach what one does not know, thus, one cannot learn from unlearned teachers.
The common misconception today is that mma competitions negate the experiences, the teachings of the past. this could nto be farther from the truth. while mma competitions are fun and challenging tests of ones various skill sets, they are not combat. combat is the fire that forged teh various traditional styles, and it is simply youthfull arrogance to reject as obsolete the traditional past. arrogance, and ignorance, for one cannot be falsely confident of what one doenst even know he hasnt been taught.”



I want to tell you a story about a friend of mine. His name is matt. Matt is a quiet kind of guy, but very witty and tells a good story. He’s the kind of guy every one who knows him likes him.

Matt has trained in Shito ryu for 7 years and prides himself as the best tournament competitor in our dojo (that’s debatable). He holds a black belt that he is very proud of.

Matt, I, and other friends liked to frequent the bars around San Diego (just about every night). One night we had come into one of our favorite clubs they play mostly punk music and was always packed. The smoke was always very thick and choking so we on occasion would go outside for fresh air. We would spend about 20 minutes outside then go back in.

One night after about three beers we decided to go out for some air, there were four of us on this night. As we stood there talking to some honeys this guy wearing western wear (cowboy hat and boots, jeans and a t-shirt came walking up towards the front door.

Matt being slightly inebriated and in one of his talkative lets party moods yelled out “Hey you, they don’t allow your kind in there!” Now Matt was just joking around you know having a good time, but this cowboy-looking dude (for here after he’ll be mentioned only as cowboy dude) just didn’t get the joke. Cowboy dude stopped dead in his tracks and turned and began yelling all sorts of obscenities at poor ol’ Matt.
He came storming over and stopped just short of face to face with Matt. Matt immediately apologizes to cowboy dude. Matt didn’t want to fight he just thought he was being funny.

Cowboy dude stared at Matt and after a few seconds of uncomfortable silence cowboy dude burst forth a barrage of punches. Right, left, right, then a right again. Poor ol’ Matt was caught off guard.

Matt tried ducking but was caught by an uppercut. Matt then reached out, out of desperation and grabbed on in a bear hug. He lost his balance and they both fell to the ground, but Matt held on for dear life. The whole fight took place in a matter of seconds then it was over.

Well we decided (the other three of us) to break it up, so we pounded cowboy dude and he left running (Note to all you don’t go to the ground in the street, you never know who’s there waiting to pound you).

So here’s this black belt with 7 years of Karate training and an excellent tournament fighter (he could sure take me on points) who got into a fight and never landed a punch, a kick, or any other technique except a bear hug (not usually a part of the regular karate curriculum).

He remembers the fight a little differently than the rest of us. He says he was in a fight with a giant bodybuilder. Actually they were both about the same size. The truth be told Matt was probably a little bigger.

I asked him about that fight and he says he wasn’t prepared for the level of violence he found himself under. There you have it! The whole problem with karate, Karate did not prepare him for the incredible amount of violence that you may be up against in a street fight.

Street fights can be very explosive, sudden, and violent. Most Karate instructors do not prepare their students for this. Karate in general is not geared towards this.

Any good self-defense instructor will tell you of how sudden and violent these confrontations can be.

This is what’s wrong with Karate! And the reason for thread “So what can be done to fix Karate?”

the only way for me to fix Karate is to give up and switch learning to KungFu, depends upon your potential if what kind of KungFu Category will you study.........

[Tom Yum]

the only way for me to fix Karate is to give up and switch learning to KungFu, depends upon your potential if what kind of KungFu Category will you study.........

What a suprising answer!

[sherwinc]

What a suprising answer!

no one have the gots to answer my latest questions:

What is the difference between a Commercialized Martial Arts of you compare to a Non-Commercialized Martial Arts like us????????


the only way for you to convinced, no pride, be open minded, think of it, answer me now.....

[MADDOG]

Great Thread & timely too!

What is wrong with today’s - Karate - TKD - Kung Fu –or- MA in general?

One question:

No matter what style or system that you train in

Is it Martial – or is it a history lesson – or is it a sport?

Does it prepare you for what you really want?

Traditional MA / history lesson – are of great value to us all. They teach many valuable physical and mental attributes that are extremely valuable for all aspects of life. For the street you must take your traditional MA and alter it to fit into the variables that you will experience in today’s street defense situations.

I do believe that the great traditional martial artist, that we all know in our given local communities, could do very well in the majority of street confrontations. I also believe that in order for them to be successful in the street they would have to alter what they practice to be effective. That does not make traditional MA bad, but it is a factor that you need to address in order to survive.

The same goes for MA sports. Most MA sport practioners are physically and mentally tougher than the majority of the public and the majority of those that train at the local dojo. In a street defense situation they too would have to adapt to go outside the confines of the MA sport in order to be successful. This doe not make sport MA bad, but it is a factor that you need to address in order to survive.

For the so-called warrior street self-defense schools –
[1] I ask you, do you have the physical & mental toughness of the sport martial art
[2] I ask you, do you understand the physical dynamics of your techniques and have you developed your sprit to the same degree as the traditional martial artist?
Or
Do you play street solider for 2 times a week and think that you are invincible?

I will go back to my original question:


No matter what style or system that you train in

Is it Martial – or is it a history lesson – or is it a sport?

Does it prepare you for what you really want?

Thank you

Ed Barton

-

[sherwinc]

Great Thread & timely too!

What is wrong with today’s - Karate - TKD - Kung Fu –or- MA in general?

One question:

No matter what style or system that you train in

Is it Martial – or is it a history lesson – or is it a sport?

Does it prepare you for what you really want?

Traditional MA / history lesson – are of great value to us all. They teach many valuable physical and mental attributes that are extremely valuable for all aspects of life. For the street you must take your traditional MA and alter it to fit into the variables that you will experience in today’s street defense situations.

I do believe that the great traditional martial artist, that we all know in our given local communities, could do very well in the majority of street confrontations. I also believe that in order for them to be successful in the street they would have to alter what they practice to be effective. That does not make traditional MA bad, but it is a factor that you need to address in order to survive.

The same goes for MA sports. Most MA sport practioners are physically and mentally tougher than the majority of the public and the majority of those that train at the local dojo. In a street defense situation they too would have to adapt to go outside the confines of the MA sport in order to be successful. This doe not make sport MA bad, but it is a factor that you need to address in order to survive.

For the so-called warrior street self-defense schools –
[1] I ask you, do you have the physical & mental toughness of the sport martial art
[2] I ask you, do you understand the physical dynamics of your techniques and have you developed your sprit to the same degree as the traditional martial artist?
Or
Do you play street solider for 2 times a week and think that you are invincible?

I will go back to my original question:


No matter what style or system that you train in

Is it Martial – or is it a history lesson – or is it a sport?

Does it prepare you for what you really want?

Thank you

Ed Barton

-

but whether COMMERCIALIZED, NON-COMMERCIALIZED, FAKE SCHOOL/TEACHERS really does matter..... and it will bring martial art deterioration to the observers....... particularly the existing of Commercialization KungFu Schools and existing of Fake KungFu Schools and Sifu's

example:
the effects of the Dit Dat Jow that my KungFu Instructor ingredients made compare to the Dit Dat Jow that i buy in Squaddron Shoppe...... you may see the difference between the Commercial and the Non-Commercial

[Tom Yum]

no one have the gots to answer my latest questions:

What is the difference between a Commercialized Martial Arts of you compare to a Non-Commercialized Martial Arts like us????????
the only way for you to convinced, no pride, be open minded, think of it, answer me now.....

I think I understand your point. In the US, we refer to heavily commercial schools that only want money and teach low quality martial arts as "Mc Dojos".

This is likened to the cheapness of Mc Donald's food.

The fake kung-fu that you talk about is probably the same thing, but in the Phillipines - schools out to get your money but teach you watered down martial arts. I guess its also a problem in the Phillipines.

I think your obsession with kung-fu has to do with the large % of Mcdojo kung-fu schools in the Phillipines and that you are serious about kung-fu (serious is an understatment in your case )

[Toudiyama[NL]]

What's wrong with Karate, is not the techniques but the fact that it is taught in groups and because of that lost a lot it, grapling was a part of karate too
In the old days on Okinawa, people would practice at their own level instead of having to be slowed down by the group

Arts like MT are often still done like this, the group that don't and instead use the same kind of groupinstuction as karate, will produce the same kind of fighters namely weekendwarriors

[sherwinc]

I think I understand your point. In the US, we refer to heavily commercial schools that only want money and teach low quality martial arts as "Mc Dojos".

This is likened to the cheapness of Mc Donald's food.

The fake kung-fu that you talk about is probably the same thing, but in the Phillipines - schools out to get your money but teach you watered down martial arts. I guess its also a problem in the Phillipines.

I think your obsession with kung-fu has to do with the large % of Mcdojo kung-fu schools in the Phillipines and that you are serious about kung-fu (serious is an understatment in your case )

cause all KungFu Schools and KungFu Instructors here in Iloilo, Philippines are all Fake and frequently defeated by Karate and Tae Kwon Do, the more i see them enter unto the ring or even sparring kungfu are always defeated and i always here people besides me that kungfu is bullshit..... their kungfu is bullshit.....

my instructor said that you cannot make Fake KungFu in the heart of Manila, Philippines cause a sudden Challenged Letter wrap in stone for the NgoChoKun Schools to invade you.... (strick in kungfu only)

my instructor also said you can make Commercialized KungFu Schools too in Manila but not a Fake School (its a disgrace)

but there's truely a very big difference comparing a Non-Commercialized to a Commercialized KungFu Schools.