The Essence of Karate

[Thai Bri]

If he isn't causing that much of a threat he will back off pretty quickly. And, of course, he will never try it again.

Look at it this way. Who trains to fight someone who isn't fighting? Is he a threat or not?

[Toudiyama[NL]]

a lapelgrap is usualy followed by a punch to the head or something like it
therefore, a wristlock is focussing on the wrong thing anyway
As long as someone holds the lapel, there is only 1 hand to watch out for

[Beginner]

That's really the root of the question. Is he a threat? If he's a "threat" then handle it the same as you would any other threat. It's up to the individual to decide what level of threat they're okay with, and I guess maybe it takes some seasoning, too.

We generally set a "red zone". It is that radius around you that you maintain. Once what seems to be a threat is within the zone, that's the time you react. If someone's getting too close, you move to keep the red zone intact. If someone poses to attack w/in the red zone, then you execute whatever you have to.

You're right that it does take seasoning to determine threats but I guess training to have a red zone is a start for most people learning self defense. Just my input...

[Tom Yum]

Yep Mike most of what people call fights start out as posturing macho bull$h!t and can be de-escalated by the simple act of stepping back. Of course if this guy is worth his weight in alcohol and grease, he'll call you a chicken $#!t, P)$$y you name it.

This ain't cliche or nothin'...lol.

On the other hand, when you're walking in the parking lot at night and 3 mean looking guys seem to be following you, you're allready thinking about what you've got and what you're going to do.

Three of the most popular ambushes are the moment you are about to get into your car, get in your car to leave or arrive in your car. The predatory mind tries to strike you in a quick, risk-free situation for them.

Everyonce in a while you hear of some guy on the news pull a weapon on an intruder or during an attempted robbery and successfully defend themselves. A few months ago, some guy chased two would be robbers or murderers into a field with something on the magnitude of an elephant gun.

Crazy

[darrianation]

Like Mike said there are many different degrees. First you don’t have to fight everyone who challenges you like the ol’ “Lets step outside” or “ what the F*** are you looking at?” As Tom has said these are usually easy to moderately easy to de-escalate, or avoid in the first place.

But remember even fights that start out in a minor or trivial threat, argument, or simple assault can rapidly escalate to a deadly confrontation. When I train I train for the worst case scenario, the 6’4” 280lb tank who can bench press a house and just got released from prison, where he served time in the state penn’ for assault, or murder. who is also armed with a knife, gun, or several of his buddies. If I can handle him then I can surely handle a little pip-squeak in a bar or in the grocery store parking lot.

Yes you need to have awareness, take preventative measures for your safety, and de-escalate, or escape, and you should know the use of force continuum but when all these break down, then you shouldn’t mess around, end the fight fast. This can only happen if you are determined to go for the kill, not literally of course, unless deadly force is indicated but you need to use your most damaging weapons and go for the targets that will bring the best results in the shortest amount of time and attack them with everything you have.

I have said this before, and I’ll say it again, time and time again the fight will go to the guy who is most determined, most tenacious, the most ferocious. There is another very true adage, “the person who escalates the violence the furthest the fastest, will usually be the winner of the fight”. So end it before he can escalate it to deadly force.

[brokenelbow]

Darr, I'm a little late here but that 3rd degree BB should spend a little time reading karate-do kyohan and what Funikoshi thought about grappling and strikes. Also if he'd check out Practical Karate volume 2 by Shotokan icon Nakayama and Dann Draeger where on pages 48-50 they seem to take Mike Brewers advice. Out of the 4 or so examples not one is a wrist lock. Sounds like you're more Shotokan in spirit than he is.

[darrianation]

Yah, I have no Idea where he got his curriculum from, it’s for retards. He is not JKA, I don’t know if that makes a difference but there seems to be friction between him and the head instructor who is JKA trained (3rd BB was the former head instructor who retired and only occasionally teaches). I am not really a Shotokan guy myself (I am Wado and Shito trained) although I have been participating in one way or another with them for over a year now, and I still don’t understand their politics. I just don’t have much to do with them anymore except I show up for the last hour of practice to do a few drills, spar, and pick up my 9 year old daughter who is a student (I would teach her except she refuses to learn from me ).

[brokenelbow]

What is it with kids? They have someone to teach them right but they prefer the fun guy in the strip mall. I don't have my kids in a program, I just try to get them doing things right during play.

My biggest gripe with karate is that the fact that it is primarily a brutal violent fighting form has been tossed away and replaced with feel good BS. I was reprimanded for teaching beginners and kids how to read an opponent, body shifting and practical applications for the kata. Basically how not to get hit but still stay in range to counter which is how I was trained as a beginner. My group was doing well during sparring against higher belts and even looked good doing kata but I was told that's not why we train.

[HtTKar]

Darrianation..

I think what you have going on there is great. You have a duaghter that shares a common interest with you, and you involve yourself as much as possible. This way she'll probably learn shotokan, and eventually learn from you as she gets older. It could be worse. Instead of sparring you could be setting up tea parties or something.

I also think its great that you allow her to learn from somebody else. My father would not allow me to learn from anyone other than him until I was 11yrs old.

Shotokan is hard style. If they stick an arm out, they should not get it back. lapel grab - wrist locks seem more like Aikido. But what do I know?

Anyways just wanted to say I think you're doing a good thing by encouraging her choice.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Darr:

In Shito, as far as I know the forms aren't done in stop motion, rather, they do flowing combos
Or am I wrong and is it the same stopmotion as in Shotokan ( or Wado) ?

[sherwinc]

Darr:

In Shito, as far as I know the forms aren't done in stop motion, rather, they do flowing combos
Or am I wrong and is it the same stopmotion as in Shotokan ( or Wado) ?

You mean their Kata is still a broken rhythm???????

and we already know that all karate kata are all broken rhythm, the reason why you insist us to delete kata and concentrate to shadow boxing......

for me, shadow boxing is best if you have a certain kind of tool that is electronically/randomly digital.... i am right?

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Did I ramble with the shitbucket?

[brokenelbow]

Or am I wrong and is it the same stopmotion as in Shotokan ( or Wado) ?

From what I know in shotokan it shouldn't be stopmotion unless you're a beginner or an advanced belt working with beginners. Kata done solo should be crisp but flow without chopiness. After all most of the technique is really what happens between the moves not at the end points. I was told that the stop motion is done to let the sensei, judges or spectators be impressed by the karatekas form. The more application based shotokanika that I know move fast, smooth and will work the techniques against someone.

[sherwinc]

From what I know in shotokan it shouldn't be stopmotion unless you're a beginner or an advanced belt working with beginners.

still, it should not be a brokenrhythm, and the KATA is done in a fullspeed manner

[brokenelbow]

Uh, I think I agree with sherwinc this time. Isn't that one of the signs of the apokolips?