Critical Distance and Types of Fighters

[Hardball]

In Short if you see a guy with a gun, run.

I agree, preferably run in zig zag pattern using cover and concealment.

[shuyun]

wristlocks are too fine motor for me

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-Hikage

"fine motor movement" takes more coordination to execute in an adrenaline situation.

[Hardball]

You could always exhibit the "gunslinger mentality" and execute a lighting wristlock/takedown/throw but you have to be out of the way of the gun. Duh. Of course some systems don't practice or teach this. I'm really only talking about a situation where you know it's do or die. You have to acquire a sixth sense for when/how and if to make a move. It can be pulled off and may be better than trying to outrun a bullet.

Bowing Out

[shuyun]

I'm really only talking about a situation where you know it's do or die. You have to acquire a sixth sense for when/how and if to make a move. It can be pulled off and may be better than trying to outrun a bullet.

Yes. Like everything else it requires a particular context. Including the mindset of the gunner. One big factor, we don't give him a reason to feel threatened so that he doesn't pull the trigger. No sudden moves.

Loll him into a false sense of secuirty until you are with in grappling/striking range. But even after making the necessary opportunity, not all guns are disarmed with the same ease (or difficulty). Revolvers are harder to disarm and are more reliable in general so it gives the gunner more advantage. I don't suggest teh Rush Hour gun defense taught to Chris Tucker .

But if you can pull if off, why not?

Nice to have a meaningful conversation with smart people. Discussions get somewhere.

[HtTKar]

Guns are definitely about the situation. Say you walk into a house and are met with a gun to your head. In this case its much eaiser to grab the gun. But if its a drive-by, run until either you cant run any further or you have your own gun to back you up.
Another situation could be in public, where the guy is just trying to act tough. You might be able to talk your way out of getting killed.

I know they say that when you draw a gun on somebody you should be of the mind to use it. However, most people are not like that, and use a gun for intimidation purposes. When empy-hand fighting you are able to set up your own distance. You dont really have the opportunity to determine what distance you want. The distance is already there, you have to decide what you want to do at that distance.

[sojobow]

Loll him into a false sense of secuirty until you are with in grappling/striking range. But even after making the necessary opportunity, not all guns are disarmed with the same ease (or difficulty). Revolvers are harder to disarm and are more reliable in general so it gives the gunner more advantage. I don't suggest teh Rush Hour gun defense taught to Christ Tucker .

But if you can pull if off, why not?

Nice to have a meaningful conversation with smart people. Discussions get somewhere.

21 to 25 Feet.

Say it again: 21 to 25 Feet.

If I have the gun, this is the distance you will have to cross. You will be shot at least once and maybe twice while trying to close this distance as you are correct in that it depends first on my reaction time and the type of type of weapon (revolver or automatic) and the type of trigger mechanism I'm using. Hair triggers etc. But, you have to close the distance of 21 feet and you'll get shot because I'm trying my best to keep you out of the 21 foot area and I don't really have to be a good marksman.

If I don't know what I'm doing and allow you to close the gap, just hope you can move in such a way that you don't get both shots into you. If you close the distance, you've proven that I don't know what I'm doing and you should have enough technique to disarm me by causing me to shoot myself with my own gun or, at least, render me totally unconscious.

Very good thread. I too hope that it continues as such. I've learned a lot.

[shuyun]

21 to 25 Feet.

Say it again: 21 to 25 Feet.

If I have the gun, this is the distance you will have to cross. You will be shot at least once and maybe twice while trying to close this distance as you are correct in that it depends first on my reaction time and the type of type of weapon (revolver or automatic) and the type of trigger mechanism I'm using. Hair triggers etc. But, you have to close the distance of 21 feet and you'll get shot because I'm trying my best to keep you out of the 21 foot area and I don't really have to be a good marksman.

Then you are the kind of gun man that I don't wanna meet because that's exactly the way to have advantage with a gun keep a distance. Gun defenses assume that the gunner is within reach like a mugger. A mugger will not point to you from 21-25 feet that would draw too much attention. That's why it's also part psychology that we must not present ourselves as a threat. And true if some guy doesn't know the 21-25 feet thing then he might just (might being the operative word) be scared enough to make him hesitate, enough opportunity to pull of whatever technique you have perfected.

Very good thread. I too hope that it continues as such. I've learned a lot.

Then keep the anti-troll spray handy Good post.

[sojobow]

Crititcal Distance and Types of Fighters

What's up? I'm new to this site and I am really enjoying my stay and interaction here. I try and stay in the Japanese forumn because that is where my rank and certification is; however, I got an open mind.

I would like to start a conversation about "Critical Distance and Types of Fighters.

Hardball. Forgive the delay in responding to your post. Great subject. Don't laugh but here is something I've just come up with. whatyathink?


sojobow takes a shot - or something!


quote:
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Originally posted by sojobow

Anything that you would like to add:

1. Charger
2. Blocker
3. Backwards Runner
4. Elusive Runner
5. Grappler
6. Kicking Specialist
7. Street Brawler

These are the basic 7. There are strategies to defending against each type of fighter assuming you know what you are up against.
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Being the least ranked person responding, you'll have to bear with me on this one. Laughing too much will cause abdominal cramps. Hope it makes your day. Anyway, I'm assuming that I know what type of fighter I'm up against. How much time it took me to figure out what type of fighter I'm up against is also a real good question. How much time does it take and would I actually be concerned is also something I need to consider.

My basic first thought is that it makes no difference which type of fighter it is that I am up against. My own attack is also my defense. It only initially matters if the fighter can actually fight. If he cannot fight, the fight should be over before he reveals his type (he has no identifying symbols on his clothing).

For the sake of this discussion, lets say that this fighter is basically equal in ability than you or I.

1. Charger: Move off his area of power. Let his vectors transform into areas of your power. The old Aikido moves. He'll trip over the obstacles you've placed in his way. Hopefully, that roundhouse to the groin is one obsticle.

2. Blocker: Regardless of how good a blocker he is, he can't block or defend at least 2 body sections. He can defend 4, but this leaves at least two open. Take the ones he relinquishes.

3. Backwards Runner: Jump for joy! Just keep him running backwards and don't let him recoup. Stay on top of him constantly.

4. Elusive Runner: Good reason to include physical training (running, setups, pushups, leg strenghening). He thinks his stamina will out last yours (along with some frustration). You'll have to know where he's going before he knows. There are methods of practice which would help you "predict" his body motions. Stay in shap and stick to him.

5. Grappler: Be confident in your ability to get the heck up real fast. Stay off-center. As this is "no rules" involvement, balance is important, stance is important, his stance becomes your stance, and counter his efforts to throw you. If he shoots, remember that where is head goes, so must his body so redirect his head and his spine (all three sections) belong to you.

6. Kicking Specialist: Stay tight-elbows tight-guard up. Use your legs to block his legs. He's giving you a weakness as he's on one foot so kicking his kicks will off-balance him so you must see the kick, recognized the kick and then blast. (Naturally, being a standing, stationary target won't help.)

7. Street Brawler: Make no mistake. Do not underestimate this fighter. Basically 3 types: Men that have spent considerable time in prison and had nothing more to do all day-every day, but workout. In above-average physical condition and won't be a pushover. Will use his hands a lot but he can't build muscle over vital points. Concentrate on striking vital points and get it over with fast. Take out the knees and eyes. Second type: Those that have martial arts training in no known style. They may even call their style "street fighting." Basically better than most with the A-B-C's. Good snap-side kickers, good reverse punchers. Just can't seem to keep their guard up. Somewhat long attackers as they use the arm and leg furthest away from you. Speed and off-line attacks should work. Attack the front leg, eyes and make him a backwards runner.

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Actually, I'm just guessing as I personally can't imagine having the time to figure out which type of fighter I'd meet. Just when you think you recognize that Kempo fighting stance, you find he's just tricking you to see if you will attack him as you would any other Karate fighter whose gonna use his hands a lot. But I put my little info out so that you guys can correct me. Need all the help I can get so blast away at my answers. Might help me on my next test (real or rank). If its real, I hope its Carlos who can't fight unless he's sticking a sword in ya.

Comeon teachers, help us grunts alone.


quote:
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Critical Distance= Pretty Basic. You know when you are in striking range, grappling range, kicking range. What can you add to this basic principle.
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Ranges are ok - until someone pulls a weapon. Things change reeeeeal fast when the weapon is drawn - especially critical distance. Nike Jitsu is a good thought.

Stop laughing out there. I do wish I could actually fight too.

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NK-MK
sojobow, Reflect on your training but don't spend more time analizing (yeah, I mispelled it on purpose) than training. Takezo

[Hardball]

Hardball. Forgive the delay in responding to your post. Great subject. Don't laugh but here is something I've just come up with. whatyathink?

Very good contribution to this discussion. No one is being judgemental in this thread. We're just sharing ideas. There is no right or wrong answers. Practice Hard and practice often.

Bowing out.

[shuyun]

Ranges are always important to training.

"Favorite techniques" are sometimes counter productive in using the appropriate technique for the right range.

[ScottUK]

Wow. You can fight from five years away. Now THAT is a deep understanding of ma. I can only manage opponents about 6-8 feet away.

[shuyun]

scott i was here 5 years ago, I just felt that this was still an interesting topic since it was never closed anyway

[ScottUK]

Then perhaps a thread bump would have been better?

[Hardball]

The principle of Critical Distance is especially important in street fights since so many street fights start with a "Sucker Punch"

[shuyun]

Then perhaps a thread bump would have been better?

i guess so, what's a thread bump?