Throwing

[jubaji]

We are also tought how to countel alot of the other shoots. Im not saying our way will allways work. Your right though alot comes down to the persons in the fight, and thats why in the Army you have to be fit. Think though for us its less than a sec to bring a knee up about 2 inches with a ton of force

Well as you say, there are a lot of variables. But I'm pretty firmly convinced that no way in hell is a decent shot going to give you anywhere close to enough time to react in that manner. Then again, you are relatively unlikely to encounter such a thing very often.

[PFC_Kurtz_John]

Well as you say, there are a lot of variables. But I'm pretty firmly convinced that no way in hell is a decent shot going to give you anywhere close to enough time to react in that manner. Then again, you are relatively unlikely to encounter such a thing very often.

yeah thats why we train in GFT ( Ground Fighting Tactics) Its been shown that if the other guy knows what he is doing he will try to take you to the ground. Chances are too that he will get you there.

[jubaji]

Makes sense

yeah thats why we train in GFT ( Ground Fighting Tactics) Its been shown that if the other guy knows what he is doing he will try to take you to the ground. Chances are too that he will get you there.

Good way to look at it, I'd say!

[medic06]

Well as you say, there are a lot of variables. But I'm pretty firmly convinced that no way in hell is a decent shot going to give you anywhere close to enough time to react in that manner. Then again, you are relatively unlikely to encounter such a thing very often.

This is starting to sound way too much like the uncounterable techniques you like to criticise other people for talking about.

[Sagacious Lu]

The difference is that you really did practice shots full out when you were wrestling and you have never practiced the eye gouge full out. That has to be a significant consideration at the very least.

That's not really true though. Sure, I practiced shots at full speed, and made them work against real opponents in live matches, but we were always on a wrestling mat. That means that I had a nice, soft, smooth mat that was designed for the sport . What would happen to our shots if we wrestled on a hard wood floor, or asphalt, or better yet on asphalt that might be littered with broken glass, pebbles, rusty screws and god only knows what else? IMHO there is at least as much difference between taking a shot in a wrestling match and taking one in in self-defense in say, a gas station parking lot as there is between a simulated eye gouge in an intense sparring match as opposed to a real fight.


As far as wrestling being a martial art I have to strongly disagree because none of the techniques are designed to injure your opponent, and they are designed to function on a soft smooth mat within a set amount of space. Wrestlers only get seriously injured by wrestling when unfortunate accidents (or shameful cheating) happen. I'll be the first person to speak up- from experience- about how much of an advantage a good wrestler has in a real fight but that doesn't change the fact that all the techniques revolve around the rules of the sport.

[jubaji]

This is starting to sound way too much like the uncounterable techniques you like to criticise other people for talking about.

How so? Did I say anything was uncounterable? I am addressing one particular counter under specific circumstances.


Care to try again?

[jubaji]

That's not really true though. Sure, I practiced shots at full speed, and made them work against real opponents in live matches, but we were always on a wrestling mat. That means that I had a nice, soft, smooth mat that was designed for the sport . What would happen to our shots if we wrestled on a hard wood floor, or asphalt, or better yet on asphalt that might be littered with broken glass, pebbles, rusty screws and god only knows what else? IMHO there is at least as much difference between taking a shot in a wrestling match and taking one in in self-defense in say, a gas station parking lot as there is between a simulated eye gouge in an intense sparring match as opposed to a real fight..

It seems you have a reason to want to believe that, but it stretches credulity to make such a comparison. Have you ever gouged out someone's eye under any conditions? In any forum? Inside? Outside? On a mat? In a parking lot? etc.

[jubaji]

As far as wrestling being a martial art I have to strongly disagree because none of the techniques are designed to injure your opponent, and they are designed to function on a soft smooth mat within a set amount of space. Wrestlers only get seriously injured by wrestling when unfortunate accidents .

From these comments I'd have to conclude that you are not as familiar with wrestling as you'd like to think.

[Hardball]

Nobody voted for Basic Hip throws in the Poll; yet CUENG LEE does them all of the time with great success in san shou tournament rules. What's up with that? Not one vote for a basic hip throw.??????????????????????????????????????

[Sagacious Lu]

It seems you have a reason to want to believe that, but it stretches credulity to make such a comparison. Have you ever gouged out someone's eye under any conditions? In any forum? Inside? Outside? On a mat? In a parking lot? etc.

I've already stated that I haven't, but I do target the cheek right under the eye in sparring, and I poke BOB (the training dummy) in the eye all the time. We also put on gloves and spar so yes I really do hit real opponents (and get hit) in the face even if it isn't a strike the eye. I don't expect my oppenents eyeball to pop out of his head when I hit it (Kill Bill anyone? ) but it's sure going to hurt like hell. Telling me that I don't know if it works is like telling someone who goes to a firing range regularly that they don't know they can kill a person with their gun because they've only ever shot paper targets; no it isn't the same thing but if they point their gun at you and pull the trigger it's still going to make a big bloody hole.

From these comments I'd have to conclude that you are not as familiar with wrestling as you'd like to think.

Are we both talking about the same style of wrestling; in other words the type you find in high school gymnasiums across the USA? I know very well that you can modify wrestling techniques to do real damage, but that isn't the way they're done in the context of a wrestling match. Please describe a LEGAL technique that you can use in a wrestling match that if performed successfully will win the match (or at least score you points) and leave your opponent in need of professional medical attention. The way I remember it if you so much as applied a throw too hard it was called a "slam" and you could forfeit the match for doing it even if your opponent wasn't hurt. I've seen and competed in countless wrestling matches and I've never seen anyone get injured other than by accident or foul play. If there is an exception to this it must be some obscure loop-hole in the rules and I'd like to hear it explained.

[medic06]

How so? Did I say anything was uncounterable? I am addressing one particular counter under specific circumstances.


Care to try again?

Nope, I said exactly what I meant. Reread it carefully. . . .

[medic06]

Here yah go yah hypocrite!!!!!

. . . . . You really should know that a competantly set-up and timed shot in legitimate shooting range is going to happen far too quickly for any knee to the head or elbow to the spine BS. . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

right back at yah bub. . . . .

[jubaji]

Nope, I said exactly what I meant. Reread it carefully. . . .

Ok, did I say anything was uncounterable?

[jubaji]

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

right back at yah bub. . . . .

Meaning you agree?

[BoarSpear]

oh, so whats this then?

AW, did jubaji's posting more than his usual................


get him all confused? Poor wittle jubaji.....