JKD in competitions?

[Sanitarium]

Why doesn't there seem to be much documentation/popularity of JKD in tournies and stuff? it seems that MT/kickboxing seem to be the most popular....but surely if JKD pulls the best, most brutal techniques from many arts, why isn't used?

Is it because

-MT gyms train their guys much much harder than JKD ones
-MT is more popular because JKD is a newer concept and people like to be traditional/nationalistic
-the champions of today were only just born when JKD came out and thus didnt have the chance to train in it
-Bruce never studied MT and never added it's moves/concepts into JKD

But if that's the case why haven't JKD instructors incooporated MT into JKD over the years?

So..basically...what's the deal? Is MT better than JKD? In theory it can't be, because it's a fixed style. But if it's training and techniques prove to be more effective, then I suppose it it.

I don't have a load of experience in JKD but so far I've been taught different punches, kicks, elbows, knees, etc...which doesn't seem a great deal different to what the MT guys do in the gym above my dojo. Is it just a difference in training?

[platinum_angel]

JKD is not really for compition. it can be though

[Combat Cherokee]

Its there.

MT is devastating, a brutal style that is very hard to fight against, but its also very competition oriented. There are many JKD instructors who havnt put MT techniques into their version of JKD simply because, they are already there. MT elbow are pretty much the same as elbows from bando, JKD, and other combative systems, MT just is well known for them. System like JKD and other growth oriented systems like it use techniques that work, truth is truth no matter what its called. A teacher friend of mine has a technique called "tiger tail" I call it circling, same tech, same dynamics, different name. From what Ive seen and studied in JKD, is that they do use similar tools to though used in MT, just adapted for the street, but same dynamics. Did those tools come from MT? I dont think so, its just two different people at two different times, in two different parts of the world, with one similar conclusion, this thing hurts. Both the old and new world peoples had bows and arrows, did the native americans get the idea from the europeans, now, simply, truth is truth, no matter where you are, and sooner or later, more then one person has the same idea's.

-C-

[Tommy DeVito]

its not populer. I have never seen a jkd school. I blieve its a good system and tkd is populer but it shit so being populer isnt everything but if 1 person goes to jkd , 50 people go to kickboxing or mt. so mt had a more chance of cathing some talented guys.

[m.artist]

most inasonto jkd schools incorporate muay thai in jkd now...what are u talking about?

[Sanitarium]

Yea, as I said, what we've done seems the same as MT, but we've learnt some different, street-orientated moves, and less kicks.

I watched a video of Rob Kamen and his demonstrated punches/kicks were very similiar indeed.

I think you're right Tommy, there's just a crapload more MT guys, and tend to train hardcore.

[El Mastero]

Yup, Inosanto's lineage trains Muay Thai kicks in their JKD but then again they also train a hodgepodge system of slapping techniques together from various styles. Most other lineages of JKD don't incorporate MT style kicks because Bruce Lee himself never trained in MT kicks. He observed some thai fighters and wasn't impressed by them.

As far as JKD people competing, it happens all the time but you have to understand that MA competitions aren't mainstream. Most tournies are local with not much if any news coverage. So some JKD people have competed in NHB style competitions as well as kickboxing with very little fanfare. Besides most JKD people aren't even very well known and don't make it on to the cover of MA mags. So their exploits rarely ever get reported in the MA press. And it's also like Tommy De Vito stated. JKD isn't as popular as most MA. While you may find a dozen or so Karate, Tae Kwon Do, Kung Fu or Jujitsu schools in your area. Finding a JKD school is as hard as finding a needle in a haystack. Most schools don't even advertise JKD in their name. So in terms of numbers the JKD community is still small. Also, most JKD schools follow the mindset of the founder (Bruce Lee) and scoff at MA competitions, so students who wish to compete usually don't have the support of their teacher. There are tons of other reasons I could name but you get the drift.

[Sanitarium]

Nice post El, thanks.

[seany85]

El, ya right about most of them not advertising. good post

[old skool dude]

JKD in tournies

[QUOTE=Sanitarium]Why doesn't there seem to be much documentation/popularity of JKD in tournies and stuff? it seems that MT/kickboxing seem to be the most popular....but surely if JKD pulls the best, most brutal techniques from many arts, why isn't used?

I think a lot of JKD guys are competing in tournies and are just not promoting their art as JKD. My sifu Ralph Mitchell, is a full instructor under Paul Vunak's Progressive Fighting Systems, in Brooklyn NY. We have a number of JKD guys in our school who have competed in Thai Boxing, BJJ, Escrima,and Kickboxing Matches and have done very well.
Having said that, Bruce's original intention for JKD was for it to be a "sophisticated form of street fighting" and not used for competition purposes which would restrict it in some respects.
Just to use a "real world" example, take Mike Tyson's last bout against Holyfield. Let's "pretend" that Tyson is a JKD guy fighting and is fighting a boxer (Holyfield) who has superior attributes in speed, timing, and rhythm. (Which of course Holyfield DID have over Tyson) Both fighters get in a clinch and Tyson, uses the JKD technique taken from Kina Mutai (biting of the ear of Hoyfield) Now if you remember that fight, Tyson was getting whipped like a "runnaway slave," then in desperation, frustration, and embarassment, bites a piece out of Holyfield's ear) At that point, the "fight stopped" Holyfield stepped back, dropped his guard, grabbed his ear, jumped up and down, and screamed to the ref! At that point, for the "jkd" guy (meaning Tyson in this pretend scenario) The fight was "over" and now HE had the advantage and could have followed up with additional kicks punches throws etc.
I've taken the long way around to say this, JKD allows for this "dirty tactic" in a way that sport kick boxing, muay thai, and even BJJ does not.
To use another example, I was sparring with the Big Strong as an Ox 20 year old bruser, (Im 43 yrs old....hence the name, "old skool dude") Who intercepted my kick, took me to the ground, got me in the mount and was ready to punch my lights our. Without knowing one technique of BJJ I escaped unharmed.....How did I do it? I took my two hands, grabbed a hold of his NIPPLES and trwisted them like doorknobs, and gently lifted him off of me.....

[Combat Cherokee]

My gril did that to me once, and all this time I thought she just liked to be kinky!



-Cherokee

[Marvin]

Hi all, the folks at Straight Blast Gym seem to be having a pretty good go at some MMA tourneys with JKD. Check out one of the SBG pages.
Marvin

[William Holland]

JKD & Muay Thai

JKD concepts people of course train heavily in Muay Thai. But other (Jun Fan JKD) teachers like myself have incorporated elements from Muay Thai, BJJ in order to keep it alive, and realstic in todays world.

However, if you feel that Muay Thai punches and kicks are the same as JKD then you have not yet really learned proper JKD punching dynamics.

As far as popularity goes, JKD is very popular, but the number of truly skilled instructors pales in comaprison to other main stream arts because, let's face, how many people did Bruce really teach? And how many trained with him for more than a year? And out of those, how many were truly good teachers, innovators and promotors of JKD> Most of them just did it as a hobby with a few people in the garage for many years.

Kawabunga,

William Holland
The Mongoose

https://www.tactixtrainingcenter.com

https://www.ijkda.com

[old skool dude]

here's what's peculiar about jkd....

JKD is not really for compition. it can be though

I agree that JKD at it's inception was not meant for competition. When Bruce was asked to explain what JKD was he referred to it as a "sophisticated form of street fighting." I can appreciate that, but what's particularly peculiar about JKD, at least the way that it's practiced is that it seems to operate out of a "boxing/kickboxing/wing chun?kali structure. For all it's talk about being a "reality based art" I see very little attention focused on street attacks, pre emptive strikes, or even the simple proven techniques of the ax hand, or chin jab that old timers like applegate, and charles nelson swore by. Recently, Thai Bri( who opened up my eyes on this by the way) posted a link to several "reality based " martial arts sites, among them being www.gutterfighting.com and after some objective investigation, I began to see what I considered to be flaws in my own training (yes, I AM a JKD practitioner) and made the necessary adjustments.
JKD as it is practiced,(or al least as I have been exposed to it) doesnt seem to focus on many of the factors that go into a street fighting confrontation. There are no improvised weapon drills (although I do employ them personally in my own training) No emphasis on pre emptive striking (there is the STOP HIT which I like, but even that requires a keen sense of timing and concentration to pull it off effectively) no verbal de escalation techniques, and virtually no strategy for engaging multiple attackers. Dont get me wron, I love the adrendalin rush that I get knife sparring, but that is simply NOT a realistic street scenario that you'll find yourself in when dealing with edge weapons. Im curious as to how others feel about this, and please Dont think I am bashing JKD. I love the art, I practice the art, and I will continue to promote it, but If we are going to be TRUE disciples of Bruce, I think we have to open our eyes to what is wrong with the art.

[William Holland]

Street Fighting

I believe you are right. I have trained with 10 of Bruces original students, and for the most part, Street Reality was not emphasized per se. However, the directness, efficiency, quickness, biomechanics and tactics can be used for many applications, including competitive fighting and streetfighting.

I myself did very well as a kickboxer in JKD. Unfortunately, that was before the UFC and MMA poularity. But even at age 47, I have fought several competitive NHB fighters (champion level) and won easily.

As a guy who grew up in the gang infested streets of southern california and as a private investigator/bodyguard for over 23 years as well as bouncing at a Mafia owned bar for 2 years, all my JKD is based in street reality.

We often tactically breakdown how techniques, tactics and such work against a knife attack, multiple opponents, bar room, crazed Samoan on Angel Dust. It all must have a base in combat realism.

Kawabunga,

The Mongoose