JKD Nucleus

[Aikia]

I have been to many seminars of Various "JKD" instructors. And anyone like me can attest that getting those certificates means two things. You were present and you paid for the seminar. They are the I was there certificates. So nothing you have said has refuted what was stated by Paula's letter.

For those who don't know when you go to a seminar. If you are a no talent hack you get the same seminar certificate from Dan as one of his Full instructors. They are a nice reminder of the seminar. Don't be fooled by people who try to pass them off as legitimate credentials.

A donkey with a cart of holy books is still a donkey.

_____________________

What are you hiding Wi Kali group?
To imply that a Black Belt magazine Hall of Famer is a "hack"? How imature.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx5zm5LroHI

You are indeed acting like the donkey you describe. Between 1983-87 you received certificates when you were observed training. Larry Hartsell often used me as his partner because of my high level of striking skills. I often exchanged techniques with Dan as well. Dan took the time (1984) to write out a teaching plan for me to teach kali to my students.

Interesting that others have already volunteered the fact that they paid for JKD and received JKDC. I am certainly a "Dan fan". But I can objectively see where he and his wife made a grievous error. That letter could be forgotten if not for a few low lifers that try to give it importance. The fact that he introduced the 'new" JKDC interpretation in the late 1970's led to the eventual split in JKD.
Still Dan Inosanto remains an accomplished and highly respected martial arts master, and indeed he should. I believe he was doing exactly what he thought Bruce Lee had instructed him to do in developing his own unique path as he evolved his personal JKD into the JKDC.
If there is a problem it is the fact that many wanted to follow Bruce Lee's JKD path and evolve their JKD on their own. Those who support the BLF are of this persuasion.
Those that have embraced the Inosanto concepts are indeed fortunate.

[Wi Kali Group]

I felt the same way in the very early 1980s bro,wanted the Bruce Lee stuff but got exposed to things he never did(to any great level anyway) maybe this was more to do with the seminar organisers than the teacher,Im unsure.

Either way it put me off the JKD track I felt I wanted at that time.

I often wonder why there is no one within the JKD branches(that I know of) who is anywhere near the same level as Bruce Lee was,I would put it down to very few people follow the formula he laid out.

Ok on the why no one is near the same level as Bruce? This is why Dan has pushed the Kali so much. The old stick masters were the only ones that across the board had Bruce like attributes. The only common denominator in all of them was the weapons training.

Vunak I found it somewhere. Was talking about how he could never get the JKD stuff to work untill Dan talked him into doing the Kali for 6-12 months.

On the seminars. I believe Dan teaches what the seminar host requests.

And on the school. I had the same problem I wanted more the Vunak style & Jun Fan. My instructor was a follower of Dan. So while It wasn't what I wanted it was ok for me. I was too lazy to move to Cali.

[Kvntu]

I didn't realize Aikia is Dr Beasley. Nice to have you share your opinion on the forum. The reality is there is so much loyalty to your teacher in martial arts people become very biased. If you studied with Dan you will be loyal to Dan. If you studied with Ted Wong, a very nice guy, you will be loyal to him. This has always been a phenomenon in martial arts and doesnt always lead to clear understanding. Breaking away from that emotion and looking at issues such as these clearly and factually is often difficult for martial arts students. I have tried to do that to the best of my abilities and have always found myself leaning to Dans presentation of Bruce Lee's art. Dan teaches the original JKD and also conveys the philosophy that was so crucial to Bruce's exploration.

[Wi Kali Group]

I have been to many seminars of Various "JKD" instructors. And anyone like me can attest that getting those certificates means two things. You were present and you paid for the seminar. They are the I was there certificates. So nothing you have said has refuted what was stated by Paula's letter.

For those who don't know when you go to a seminar. If you are a no talent hack you get the same seminar certificate from Dan as one of his Full instructors. They are a nice reminder of the seminar. Don't be fooled by people who try to pass them off as legitimate credentials.

A donkey with a cart of holy books is still a donkey.

[fire cobra]

I come from a "concepts" approach. However,this is not because that's what I wanted,it was what I was forced to accept! One of my big beefs with JKDC is that you can't just learn the "JKD" (or the "Jun Fan"). Many people,myself included,dislike the mixed class approach so many JKDC guys take. A little Kali,a little Wing Chun,a little Thai boxing,taa daa! Instant JKD! I call shenanigans. Granted,in many places you can take just the "Jun Fan" class. But a LOT of them were into the "phase" classes. Many schools did not add "Jun Fan" classes until the Bruce Lee popularity explosion in the 90's. Some of us wanted to learn Bruce Lee's JKD. You know,strong side up,simple,direct,non classical. But it's not there,we've CREATED a "tradition" of JKD that did not exist! The old OBLS have "classical" JKD,the JKDC have their "non classical mess". What was about truth in combat has become about rank,certificates,terminology and ritual. The philosophys of Bruce Lee are rooted in Krishnamurti,I would advise many JKD-ers to research this. The Swiss Army Knife approach to martial artts does NOT work. It is the application of BASICS that forms a realistic approach to combat. To quote "Lennox Lewis does not have an 'advanced' left hook." JKD,is not,taking a bunch of styles you like and cobbling together a hodgepodge. You don't need an instructor for that! JKD is a boat. Once it's carried you across the river there's no need to carry it on your back...

That is why MMA is pushing aside other martial art schools. It's simple,direct,and non classical. It's fun. It doesn't require you to keep accumulating styles,terminology and certificates...

I felt the same way in the very early 1980s bro,wanted the Bruce Lee stuff but got exposed to things he never did(to any great level anyway) maybe this was more to do with the seminar organisers than the teacher,Im unsure.

Either way it put me off the JKD track I felt I wanted at that time.

I often wonder why there is no one within the JKD branches(that I know of) who is anywhere near the same level as Bruce Lee was,I would put it down to very few people follow the formula he laid out.

[Aikia]

WI Kali Group,
You don't know the whole story. Here is the last page where paula adresses the fact that john Soet is the target of her letter. She writes:
"We have long stopped buying the martial art magazines, but people constantly send us articles, or “gossip” items for verification. These informative” articles include such items as “Dan Inosanto throws sister out of his school” (Dan was never present on that occasion, and Lilia was never “thrown out”- when Dan asked Lilia about this, her response was “It was John’s idea”) ; “Cass Magda not invited to Dan Inosanto’s daughter’s wedding,” (now, there is some pertinent
martial arts information); or how about the column on Dan’s mother
after her death, a piece which offended Dan deeply, and had no place in a martial art publication. I could go on and on with quotes attributed to Dan, all of which he never said, but this would be a
waste of both your time and mine, and I am sure you have an idea now of what Dan has had to put up with partly because of your irresponsible publications. Should you personally be interested in more than “varying opinions” from unqualified and uncertified individuals, and getting to the truth about Jeet Kune Do, the art and the students of the Jun Fan Gung Fu Institute, our door is always open to you too!


There is one paragraph in your letter which, quite frankly, shocked and appalled Dan. John indicated “he has given Dan
preferential treatment,” when in fact, every lie, misquote, or damaging piece of information in your publication apparently leads right back to John himself as the author, or person responsible for its

appearance in the magazine. We would like to make one thing perfectly clear; we have no “familial ties” with John Soet. John married Dan’s sister Lilia Howe, but by no stretch of the imagination did he become a member of our family. He is not now nor has he
ever been considered “family.” There are no past misunderstandings
where Mr. Soet is concerned. He has always been perfectly understood, his views and feelings concerning my husband and members of his family, as stated over and over again in letters and documents that comprise a file almost as large as the inaccurate information in the magazines.

You ask if there is anything you can do to make this up to Dan. What do you think can be done to unravel the morass created by your disingenuous publications, and to remove the grief experienced by us
arising from the cloud you have placed over the reputation of one of
the most honest, sincere, compassionate, knowledgeable and decent
human beings the martial arts world has ever known?



Sincerely,








Paula L. Inosanto


PLIli enclosure


cc:
Ms. Linda Lee Caidwell
Mr.

[Baki Hanma]

Man oh man, this shit is tiresome, From my point of view I think shit is just bunked!

As i kid Bruce Lee was always my childhood hero, and honestly today he still is, I use to stand here with so much respect for all his family and students his friends and so on, my dream was to train with each of those who really had a connection with Bruce Lee Directly, or at least a second generation who was rightly taught by Dan Inosanto, and or Taky Kimura, since i couldn't ever train with Bruce himself!
And I always knew there were alot of fakes running around trying to cash in on Bruce Lee's art of JKD when they knew little or nothing about the art at all...
All I can say now is for any bashing of Bruce's memories and any money hungry drama I'm so disappointed, in all this mess I honestly have become unsure of who is most worthy of learning from, although I may not be so interested in learning from some whom I once did, I do still have a interest in learning from Taky and seeing as how Brandon trusted in Dan, and so did Bruce calling Dan Inosanto one of his best friends, I want to train with Dan Inosanto.

I highly believe that Bruce would have been sadden to see how things have become, and for those who fake and dirty his memories I'm sure he would have ripped these fakes apart, but I'm sure they would ha ve never acted up if he was still around...

I'm disgusted for Bruce against those who drag the legacy through the mud...

With all this brain pain information I have come to wonder how much of the art JKD from certain sources are really legit...

[Aikia]

[QUOTE=Wi Kali Group;333748]And here is the one on Dr. Beasley


Martial Arts Koncepts




NOTE: Following is the final response to the publication of Paula Inosanto's letter in the November '93 newsletter. This month we we'll examine Dr. Jerry Beasley's heated response to her comments as well as his personal attack against me. Next month, in the final installment of "Backlash", I'll summarize the current situation and future actions to curb these "cowboys".

Dr. Jerry Beasley
Dr. Jerry Beasley (Dr. B) is the author of 2(+) books and more than 40(+) articles on Jeet Kune Do and is "a recognized authority" on the subject.



In numerous articles Dr. B states that he trained in JKD and Kali with Guro Dan Inosanto over a five year period (1983-1988). According to Dan and Paula Inosanto, they did see Dr. B in attendance at several seminars and camps. But they are both quick to point out that Dr. B was there taking notes and that they never once saw him train. [Sitting on the sidelines of a seminar and taking notes is not what most consider a valid method of "experiencing" a training method or system.]

WI Kali Group,
You are responding like a well trained lapdog.
Read this:
KaliJKD

I have several certificates after training with Dan.

Now who is lying? I received certificates after training at JKD"C" seminars.
For Dan and Paula to write "Only saw him take notes"??
Someone is lying don't you agree. As for krivka he knows why he was jealous of me. I'll explain if you like.

[Aikia]

[QUOTE=Wi-Stickboxer;333754]I come from a "concepts" approach. However,this is not because that's what I wanted,it was what I was forced to accept! One of my big beefs with JKDC is that you can't just learn the "JKD" (or the "Jun Fan"). Many people,myself included,dislike the mixed class approach so many JKDC guys take. A little Kali,a little Wing Chun,a little Thai boxing,taa daa! Instant JKD! I call shenanigans.

Exellent observation shared by hundreds of seminar participants. And such was the climate in 1993. Many people that wanted to learn jeet kune do paid for seminars and received JKDC. JKDC had a monopoly on the JKD market until 1993.
In 1993 the OJKD became popular again both in seminars given by Bruce Lee's original students and in articles and book that pointed out that Dan Inosanto invented the JKDC, not Bruce Lee.
It was at this time that Paula Inosanto wrote her letter, enraged with anger and resentment that former Inosanto family member John Soet (member by marriage) would publish and article in Inside karate magazine extolling the virtues of OJKD/Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do.
It was the Inosanto group that set up the new interpretation of "JKD" as the "JKDC".
It was the Paula Inosanto letter that forever wedged the divide between Dan Inosanto and the Bruce Lee Foundation/Family. The BLF rejected the JKDC approach in favor of OJKD/Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do.

Question for WI Kali Group
Do you have access to the entire 1993 Paula Inosanto letter or are you just regurgitating the krivka edits of the 6 page letter?
I am going to provide details for you.

[Wi-Stickboxer]

I come from a "concepts" approach. However,this is not because that's what I wanted,it was what I was forced to accept! One of my big beefs with JKDC is that you can't just learn the "JKD" (or the "Jun Fan"). Many people,myself included,dislike the mixed class approach so many JKDC guys take. A little Kali,a little Wing Chun,a little Thai boxing,taa daa! Instant JKD! I call shenanigans. Granted,in many places you can take just the "Jun Fan" class. But a LOT of them were into the "phase" classes. Many schools did not add "Jun Fan" classes until the Bruce Lee popularity explosion in the 90's. Some of us wanted to learn Bruce Lee's JKD. You know,strong side up,simple,direct,non classical. But it's not there,we've CREATED a "tradition" of JKD that did not exist! The old OBLS have "classical" JKD,the JKDC have their "non classical mess". What was about truth in combat has become about rank,certificates,terminology and ritual. The philosophys of Bruce Lee are rooted in Krishnamurti,I would advise many JKD-ers to research this. The Swiss Army Knife approach to martial artts does NOT work. It is the application of BASICS that forms a realistic approach to combat. To quote "Lennox Lewis does not have an 'advanced' left hook." JKD,is not,taking a bunch of styles you like and cobbling together a hodgepodge. You don't need an instructor for that! JKD is a boat. Once it's carried you across the river there's no need to carry it on your back...

That is why MMA is pushing aside other martial art schools. It's simple,direct,and non classical. It's fun. It doesn't require you to keep accumulating styles,terminology and certificates...

[Wi-Stickboxer]

Ted Wong did not start the seminar circuit until he was retired.

I somewhat know Dr B and he has said that he does not claim to be a JKD instructor. In fact,in another post (on this board) he praises Dan.

So much of the concepts "buffet" approach has diluted JKD to the point where it was associated with Kali sticks and most people consider it a traditional art. I don't believe this was Dan's doing,but other people who misunderstood what he was saying.

[Wi Kali Group]

Here is a post on his site about a series of questions he gets.

Martial Arts Koncepts

The one I like is where was Ted all those years Dan was building up Bruce's art. For that matter where was the Lee family.

I wan't to be clear I am not trying to bash any of the OBLS (origianl bruce lee students). Or their right to teach wheter Bruce made them instructors or not.

Tangent alert -- Someone keeps posting a site with the geneology of various alleged instructors in JKD. He keeps listing it as the truth. What I find funny is he lists Dan, James and Taky as Assistant instructors. It's my understanding that they were the sifu at Bruce's various schools. He has Ted Wong listed as just certified not even an assistant instructor. This puts him in the same company as several hollywood stars that trained under bruce.

My big problem is the way they either take an active part in Bashing the legacy left behind by Bruce (Dan & the Art). Or passive one by not correcting the record. They stood by in the shadows while Dan kept Bruce Lee and JKD alive. Teaching small groups, trying to get better running small schools. Now that Dan is old they come running out like cockroaches trying to dine at the feast Dan built.

And the Lee family. I love people who point to their training with a sudo instructor and point to the Lee family for legitimacy. Why none of them trained or was even ranked as a advanced student like Ted Wong.

Oh well good luck on all the training. If you want to get hoodwinked by the students of people of questionalble caracter its your buisness. Just do yourself a favor. Use some common sense at you think this over. Their is a reason they have to try and misdirect people on the facts. What they have isn't that good.

[Wi Kali Group]

Here is his conclussion.


Martial Arts Koncepts



Over the past several months I have had the not-so-pleasant, but extremely educational, experience of writing about the response to Paula Inosanto's letter concerning the growth number of "Original JKD"/"JKD Instructors".



Strangely enough all of the gentlemen mentioned in the letter, as well as the subsequent commentary, have one thing in common: they have nothing good to say about each other, in addition to being more than eager to trash the others background, training and ability. Of particular interest is Gary Dill's and Lamar Davis' vehement dislike of Dr. Jerry Beasley ...

Without getting to personal I would like to make a few comments about the situation as it stands today.



First, none of the gentlemen mentioned, has had any formal training in Jun Fan Gung Fu or JKD Concepts. Training for a few weeks 30 years ago (then falling off the face of the earth), attending a couple of seminars, watching a video, or reading all of the books on a given subject does not make anyone an authority. It takes consistent training, determination, humility and integrity to develop the skills, understanding and ability necessary to perfect any skill.



Second, none of the gentlemen mentioned is recognized by their peers, meaning people who are training in the same art they profess to teach, write about, and/or make video's about. They are out there all by themselves, claiming to have the "inside scoop" on what Sigung Bruce was trying to do thirty years ago.



Finally, I am amazed and thoroughly disgusted at the tremendous ego's these gentlemen have! Basing their credentials on their questionable "training", these "JKD Masters" are a perfect example of PT Barnum's immortal social commentary that "there's one born every minute." [In this case, there must be one born every thirty seconds or so because there are people out there who are actually being fooled by these guys ...]



Fortunately there is a small segment of the martial arts population that has the insight, intelligence and common-sense to see through all of the BS and perceive these gentlemen for what they really are: FAKES. Just like the hordes of "Ninja Masters" that came out of the woodwork in the '70's and '80's, these gentlemen will fade back into obscurity as soon as the spotlight starts to dim.



So, hang on, keep your "BS Meter" charged and ready to go, and let's weather this storm together ...remember, if you ignore something long enough it will eventually go away. If not, we can always hope that they have the opportunity to user their "Original JKD" on the streets ...

[Wi Kali Group]

And here is the one on Dr. Beasley


Martial Arts Koncepts




NOTE: Following is the final response to the publication of Paula Inosanto's letter in the November '93 newsletter. This month we we'll examine Dr. Jerry Beasley's heated response to her comments as well as his personal attack against me. Next month, in the final installment of "Backlash", I'll summarize the current situation and future actions to curb these "cowboys".

Dr. Jerry Beasley
Dr. Jerry Beasley (Dr. B) is the author of 2(+) books and more than 40(+) articles on Jeet Kune Do and is "a recognized authority" on the subject.



In numerous articles Dr. B states that he trained in JKD and Kali with Guro Dan Inosanto over a five year period (1983-1988). According to Dan and Paula Inosanto, they did see Dr. B in attendance at several seminars and camps. But they are both quick to point out that Dr. B was there taking notes and that they never once saw him train. [Sitting on the sidelines of a seminar and taking notes is not what most consider a valid method of "experiencing" a training method or system.]

Where does Dr. B get the vast amounts of information that he writes about concerning JKD? Well, as of January 1993 he was given authorization to teach "JKD Fighting Principles and Strategies" by Joe Lewis, a student of Bruce Lee's and world class kick boxer in the 70's. This certification was given with the following stipulation: "Remember, as I maintain my respect for Bruce Lee, you must maintain respect for his art as he left it." [Looks like he has already broken that promise ...]

In response to my questions concerning his training, background and use/abuse of the term JKD, Dr. B has responded with several letters. Threatening physical violence [using words unbecoming a college professor] and legal action [nice try], he has demanded that I publicly apologize for the commentary made in this newsletter.



Consider the following as an "apology": Having been unable to distinguish yourself through other means, you "drop" the names of people who have dedicated their lives to the development and propagation of the martial arts. I find your abuse of the curiosity and relative ignorance of the general martial arts community [in regards to Bruce Lee's art] to be reprehensible and self-serving.



Regarding Mr. Lewis I have always, and will continue to have, the greatest respect for his ability as a martial artist and fighter. I can only hope that his name will not be tarnished by his association with you.



I am looking forward to that "personal JKD lesson" that you are so anxious to give me ...

[Wi Kali Group]

Ok here is the one on Davis.

Martial Arts Koncepts

Now if this is accurate. It seems he didn't get an instructor ship from Poteet cause he was selling them for too high a price. And it sounds like he didn't get one from Dan or Richard cause they expected him to earn it.


NOTE: Following is the continued response to the publication of Paula Inosanto's letter in the November '93 newsletter. This month we examine Lamar Davis' response to her comments; next month we will hear from Dr. Jerry Beasley ... I can't wait !!!

Sifu Lamar Davis
Mr. Davis claims to have studied the martial arts for 26 years and has worked with the following instructors: Gary Dill, Ted Wong, Joseph Cowles, Jerry Poteet, Ted LucayLucay, Richard Bustillo and Dan Inosanto.
Following are comments that Mr. Davis made concerning his instructors:



Gary Dill - Mr. Davis stated that he is not and never was a student of Gary Dill's.



Ted Wong - Mr. Davis recognizes Mr. Wong as the "head of Jun Fan Gung Fu and JKD because he teaches only JKD, not JKD Concepts". Mr. Davis also stated that he is an instructor under Mr. Wong but does not have an instructors certificate. (He expects one in the near future ...)



Joseph Cowles - Mr. Davis received rank in Wu Wei Gung Fu from Mr. Cowles in 1982 but broke off relations with him because he considered Mr. Cowles to be a "religious fanatic".



Jerry Poteet - Mr. Davis attended a seminar by Mr. Poteet and was offered certification, but didn't want to pay $5000.00 for it. (As he claims others have ...)



Ted Lucaylucay - Mr. Lucaylucay has given seminars for Mr. Davis and is a "member of his organization", the United States Jeet Kune Do Alliance.



Richard Bustillo & Dan Inosanto - Mr. Davis has attended and sponsored seminars by both gentlemen. Mr. Davis stated that he pursued certification with Mr. Inosanto but could not "globetrot" to seminars to get certification.

I quote Mr. Davis: "When are these children going to wake up and realize that there is more than one way of doing things, and that their way may not be the right way for everyone!"



In conclusion I would like to quote Rodney King for Mr. Davis: "Can't we all just get along?".

In response I would like to quote the immortal words of Wayne & Garth: "NOT!".