I am Bruce Lee's Original Teacher

[Troll Virus]

Remind me to NEVER doubt your credability again TV.

No problem.

[Garland]

The end is always the same, Jails, institutions or death.

That's a pretty puritanical and close-minded stance. Look at the history of hallucinogens...their original usages in primitive cultures, and their use during the 1960's and 1970's as a way to look into the metaphysical, and psychological. A way of introspective exploration. I agree that they should NOT be taken recreationally.

Always jails, institutions, or death? I'll agree with the death part, because that is ultimately how everybody's story ends...but look at such people as Dr. Albert Hoffman, Dr. Sascha Shulgin, Dr. Arthur Janov, Dr. Walter Pahnke, Dr. Timothy Leary, Dr. Terrance McKenna...Aldous Huxley, should I keep going?

Jesus...is said to have smoked canabis, Buddha lived off of one canabis seed a day while sitting under the Bodhi tree contemplating enlightenment...even the Muslims way back in the day were into the hash...infact, the etiology of the word "assassin" is linked to canabis, and a group of Muslim warriors who would ingest it before going on what were essentially suicidal missions.

Mushrooms date back to pre-Mayan civilization, and are integral in Oaxa area Mescalero's religious rights, as is Maria Pastora (aka Salvia Divinorium)...shit...look at the old Norse religions and the old Siberian shamanism...Soma mushrooms...(Amanitas muscaria)....


Do you imbibe caffeine? Do you smoke? Alcohol? Prescription medications? Why are they okay?

Ever eat turkey? Hot peppers? tryptophan and capsicum are foreign chemicals which induce altered physiological and neurological states...eat chocolate? Chocolate effects dopamine to some degree...as well as seratonin.

I mean, I ain'ts gots no PhD in this shit...and I'm not an expert on neurobiology or organic and moleculer chemistry, or psychiatry or anesthesiology...but to me, in MY humble opinion...
you can't help ingesting mind altering chemicals to some extent or another.
And also...sometimes ingestion of these substances in the right context, under the right supervision, and in the right dosages could be very BENEFICIAL to somebodies psychological, physiological, and perhaps even (I usually don't go here, cuz I'm an atheist) spiritual states.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Should I go on to other classifications of drugs? Want to know why we need, absolutely NEED opiates and central nervous system depressants? How about legit uses for stimulants?

There are some drugs you don't **** with, and should be wiped off the face of the earth...being; crank (crystal methamphetamine), and datura inoxia...but if you're using either...you're fucking retarded anyway.

[Hardball]

You missed the point Garland. I like you, was sounding Pro Illicit drugs which I am not. I am against them.

The point you missed was for the Young People. Young kids, teenagers or young adults who frequent this forum and this thread. Personally, I don't want to be on record as condoning drugs on a site that is not Adults only. I don't want my kids using any kind of drugs and I'm sure other parents/martial artist here don't either. The point was once again---please young people stay away from drugs. My definition of young = grade school to college age. For the record I am a 50 year old man and I lived through the 60's and 70's that you tried to reference.

Peace Out Bro!!

P.S. would you want your little 8 year old brother or 6 year old sister to read this thread and then got out and try some LSD?

[Garland]

P.S. would you want your little 8 year old brother or 6 year old sister to read this thread and then got out and try some LSD?

It's probably much harder for a kid that age to score anything, much less any hallucinogen besides pot...also the $..., unless you're in a shit area of any big city, and kids that age are selling rock...in which case, better to let the kids know, then to go out and kill their mind with that shit.

[Hardball]

How irresponsible can you be to glorify drugs when there is a possibility that some young kid could be reading this. Just say no? Jails , institutions and death. They won't get you high; they will only take you so low.

[Garland]

How irresponsible can you be to glorify drugs when there is a possibility that some young kid could be reading this. Just say no? Jails , institutions and death. They won't get you high; they will only take you so low.

I'm not glorifying them...but I won't demonize them either.
I believe that SOME of them have a place within society.

I'm for the legalization of marjiuanna, and the supervised and clinical applications for the hallucinogens (such as LSD and MDMA), or as used for religous rights (peyote, mushrooms, ayahuasca, etc.), or to expand introceptive awareness...as the federal government is already allowing the use of opiates and stimulant type meds for the health of the body, why not be open to the possibility that the CONTROLED use of some psychotropic substances could be beneficial for the health of the mind?


The hallucinogenic drugs have a fairly low addiction potential, and in my mind, are less dangerous than many prescription pills.

[Nips]

The "just say no" approach is a shit one, and will never work. I don't care who you are, you have to come to terms with the fact that no matter what society you're in, there are going to be people who use drugs. And what's more, completely condeming them makes them more dangerous. How? Look at the prohibition of booze in the states and the amount of violence that ensued because of it. Making drugs illegal just means that you're forcing it into the black market, and that is a market that the police and government have no control over. You're better off educating your kids with the facts rather than just going "drugs are bad, don't do drugs".

[Garland]

If the conspiracy guys are right, the government did all kinds of experimentation using hallucinogenics, so they must know of the long-term effects. What's the level of truth in the notion that someone who's used acid or something like it can have flashbacks years later?

I realize it may sound like a stupid question, but like I said, I don't know the first thing about those types of drugs.

OK...here's my OFFICIAL STANCE:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4_cGdr4dXg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFTck49skCk

like that better hardball? LOL!


1) Expirmentation of drugs on US soldiers was commonplace, the Brits did it too.
LSD with Brit soldiers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiMBolUg-Fo&feature=PlayList&p=61F83D5EE283EED3&index=26

(the US soldier one was removed...)


2) Acid does have the potential to create a situation wherein you might have a flashback...so will any really, REALLY bad experience, just like people who suffer from PTSD.

3) Suggested viewing
Getting High; a history of LSD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89S_o7fOwpA&feature=PlayList&p=61F83D5EE283EED3&index=0

The father of MDMA at an LSD symposium this year

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBQiQ5exF0g&feature=PlayList&p=61F83D5EE283EED3&index=28

Power and Control LSD in the '60's
pt 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZdz0G4lG6k&feature=PlayList&p=61F83D5EE283EED3&index=30

pt 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47vt5Z5wxoI&feature=PlayList&p=61F83D5EE283EED3&index=29

pt 3

pt 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoSBuY54TIE&feature=PlayList&p=61F83D5EE283EED3&index=31

My fav. doctor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mPEc2cyeZ8

Hooked: Illegal Drugs and how they got that way
Vol. 1 a Brief History plus Marijuana

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJr7a7aqEvE&feature=PlayList&p=61F83D5EE283EED3&index=24

Cocaine and Crack

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrd5xtyfjFw&feature=PlayList&p=61F83D5EE283EED3&index=23

Opium and Heroin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQlk01sxO_E&feature=PlayList&p=61F83D5EE283EED3&index=117

MDMA for psychology?...oh, wait...it's not very dangerous in pure form?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LbdTg7CETk

Documentary on MDMA trailer "E-how much do you really know"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50y2Y6WpITU&feature=PlayList&p=61F83D5EE283EED3&index=25

Peter Jennings says MDMA is ok..."Ecstasy Rising"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt6PHhOZ32g&feature=PlayList&p=61F83D5EE283EED3&index=113

Here's the other side of the argument:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-2AA9EoSuc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hq-VHHZVH4

Lame-ass CNN BULLSHIT! like welbutrin is fucking safe!!! I'd take my chances with bud.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELRRo0V71bI

The TERRIBLE truth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0nGFsTMDSA

The CHEMICAL TOMB
pt 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv8CQ77GR90

pt 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quszfM5AVxM

This one actually kicks ass (here ya go all you LEO's)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqYusqRYIhk

An old CIA anti-LSD clip...with a talking hotdog that some bitch puts in her mouth...if I were into projective assessments, and I had to analyze the guy who put this shit together...oh boy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnERpDHiSM0

HAH HAH HAH

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqGegSpMVOA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNoT5ugvcBM

What drugs are ok>?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh3yJ1ABMKE

and just for kicks... **** George Bush

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGRcEXtLpTo&feature=PlayList&p=61F83D5EE283EED3&index=70

he's about as bogus as Dante!

not this Dante...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5s6ViLwV0M&feature=PlayList&p=61F83D5EE283EED3&index=71

(he he he he he)

this fuckhole

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-Bqb5pT5N0&feature=PlayList&p=61F83D5EE283EED3&index=77

[Hardball]

I've never been one to argue with coorboration. I have the uptmost respect for your documentation.. I'll have to view and read them later. Let's hope that no young kids are reading this thread.

[Nips]

With Acid, there's a chance someone may have what's known as a "bad trip". OK - when someone is on acid, basically everything is thrown out of proportion, and that's why you'll see people on it enjoying or being concerned about completely mundane things. What's boring to you is intricate and beatiful to them. Now, the flipside to this is, if anything bad happens, it can be completely blown out of proportion and has been described to me many times by people who have experienced them as the most terrifying things they've ever been through. This is why people will always stress "if you're going to do acid, do it in a secure enviroment with people you know and trust".

But anyway, these "bad trips" can cause PTSD.

*edit* I should add, this is just a going theory. No one REALLY perfectly understands the flashbacks caused by acid. This is just one of the (and in my mind most plausable) popular theories at the moment

[Hardball]

Speaking of bad trips; this thread has tripped really off topic. Bruce and Jimi were both from the Purple haze (LSD) generation--I'm wondering how it may have contributed to their demise or perhaps contributed to their creative genuis?

Does Yip Man really lay legitimate claim as Bruce Lee's best instructor? How many years did Bruce train under Yip? Is it true that others such as Chuck Norris, and William Chueng were actually instructors of Bruce?

[Garland]

So you're saying that acid is a REALLY bad experience like PTSD? I don't get how that's a useful thing. And I don't get how it's the same, because acid is a chemical introduced artificially, whereas psychological trauma is completely internal (and treatable).

LSD has the potential to exacerbate an already bad experience and make it a traumatic one...in rare circumstances. And both are psychological traumas and are treated the same way.

i.e. it's not the acid that creates the ptsd, it's something horrible happening to you, or an extremely bad trip on acid that creates the ptsd.

[BoarSpear]

Flashbacks...Blah blah blah...WHEN? I'm still fukking waiting...sheeeit a free trip? Sign me up...they dont happen...never had one or met anyone who has..more Bullshit from the anti drug idiots...

Why do they fear people who have tripped? Because they KNOW you realize how full of shit they are if you've ever seen "the wiring under the boardwalk."

As Mckeena said, "going to your grave without ever having ever experienced hallucinogens is like going to your grave without ever having sex, it's sad because you wont ever understand."

[Garland]

Flashbacks...Blah blah blah...WHEN? I'm still fukking waiting...sheeeit a free trip? Sign me up...they dont happen...never had one or met anyone who has..more Bullshit from the anti drug idiots...

You don't need to have done drugs to get a flashback...a flashback is a symptom of ptsd...it is conceivable to have a bad enough experience with a hallucinogen, especially if you are having a bad experience while tripping the **** out...that you can be traumatized by it.
Boar...if you don't believe this...find some datura. I guarantee you at least a shot trip to a padded cell.

[Little Apple]

This thread is kind of interesting to me. The Martial Artists I know are all paranoid about staying aware of their surroundings and in control of themselves. That or they are health freeks. I'm pretty sure none of the regulars do drugs, in fact I know that a few don't. I guess I just think of MA and drugs as not mixing, of course, this crowd barely drinks either.